Bad news posted

[FieldMedic]

I can't honestly say that i am disapointed, as i had no intention at all to get this hl2 or steam powered thingies.

But i can understand what it is to invest so much of your free time on a project to be frustrated by having to cancel it, already happened for me on another engine.

Good luck Sentry Studios, i hope some new engines will finally fit perfectly your vision for the next generation of Infiltration.

How about some muties or additional INF 2.9 content meanwhile ?
"just for the kick"
/run for cover

 

[Beppo]

So there is some useable content for ut2k4 already? Why not, while waiting for the big fish, make inf 2k4 a pet product? Maybe in a few months we can have plain infantry TDM (or Dtas) for 2k4...

The 'useable' content for 2k4 was a chopper with MG and Hellfire missles for the fun of it, a armored tracked vehicle for getting troops from A to B with mounted MG and an armored wheeled vehicle with 3 axis' as you can see here in an older news post.
Nice stuff to play around with for sure but the main thing was and still is missing... a player model. Besides tons of weapon and vehicle models we had nothing to actually play around with. And the time needed to get these things implemented ran out later on too. That's a long time ago, tho

But the biggest problem is that all these original files aren't on my HD anymore due to a HD crash some time ago. I guess we still have the stuff partially available on our FTP but this stuff - as said - has nothing to do with Infantry, it's all about some tests we did with vehicles on 2k4.

 

[randomas]

I know I'm kind of monotonous and pedantic, but why don't you evaluate the use of a free or open source engine. That way nothing would be hard coded ... you'd have maximum freedom ... ok so you'd have to build the bugger from scratch ... Isn't that half the fun?

I mean you can pull some pretty neat tricks off with the quake3 engine that's now GPLed. Just look at enemy territory and true combat ... and there's loads of others ...

 

[spm1138]

So... place your bets. What comes out first?

Duke Nuken Forever or the next iteration of Inf?

 

[[UMC]Boron]

I bet that neither will come out.

 

[Death Touch]

Beppo:"Nice stuff to play around with for sure but the main thing was and still is missing... a player model. Besides tons of weapon and vehicle models we had nothing to actually play around with. And the time needed to get these things implemented ran out later on too."


Beppo. if I understand you correctly, you are stating that you do not have the resources for creating player models? And much of your desire waned due to the lack of a player model.
You do not have teammmbers skilled in creating human 3d models(soldiers and gear) and animating them?
I hope this is not true.
If the team was held back for lack of a player model, or a team character modeler, why not simply a) BUY a character model/s, b) hire a player modeler??

And can you please clarify the "time" issue? I am of the understanding that SS is a non profit/self employed team, this imples they do not have to answer to sharholders, CEOs. etc.In other words, YOU GUYS are the "bosses'.
Who or what put a deadline on the project? I would appreciate your explanation.

I sincerely hope this is not the reason for terminating this project. I also hope that the team has enough desire and willpower to continue to Mod.

Thanks again for your sincere replies, Bep. My thanks to you and the team for keeping the dream alive (yet changing).

 

[Fat Marrow]

Thanks to the guys at SS for all their hard work to date - I can believe that this wasn't an easy decision to make. I've done maps for UT and tried doing maps for UT2k4, and I can appreciate the vast amount of time this sort of work takes up.

Going to a new engine may sound great, but being able to display higher poly models and levels is often a curse rather than a blessing - getting a 10,000 poly player model properly modelled, skinned and looking great is more difficult and more time consuming than doing the same for a 1,000 poly model.

I think the mod scene is generally slowing down/deteriorating slightly for reasons such as these. Some people have suggested that SS should get more team members to help with the work, but adding average team members to a high quality team tends to slow things down, worsen the end product (true of any software development), ruin consensus with the team, and weaken the overall vision.

 

[jayhova]

I am curious as to the teams impressions of the Q3 engine and whether any of the limitations of this engine could be overcome given the presence of the source code.

 

[Fat Marrow]

I am curious as to the teams impressions of the Q3 engine and whether any of the limitations of this engine could be overcome given the presence of the source code.

I can't speak for the team, but my understanding is that Q3 is very poorly optimised for expansive outdoor levels - does Q3 feature any at all in fact? - and is visually no improvement on UT.

 

[Death Touch]

@Fat Marrow:

Your statement about adding "average" teammembers seems much too much like a conclusion. Are you convinced that no qualified, above average modelers would be interested in joining SS? And your assertion that it"slows things down" while not entirely off the mark makes me think of one thing:


How MUCH slower can SS actually be currently considering their output rate??? Any slower would possibly constitute inaction.

IMHO, adding someone qualified will probably not slow down anything considering SS's workflow rate.

 

[geogob]

I played Q3 long enough and became expert enough in trick jumping (understand, exploit every little engine possibility) to come to this conclusion:

stay the hell away of that engine. Period.

 

[zeep]

Actually, i consider trickjumping to be of the highest challenge. It requires a lot of skill, timing, precise mouse movement, speed, extreme knowledge of the engine's physics and even an exact framerate to master. When you speak of Q3A trickjumping, speak with pride. It's not exploiting, it's like surfing the waves.

Somebody wondered about outdoor mapping? The Q3A engine is a fine engine capable of outdoor terrains and then some. But bottom line, it wouldn't be a step up though. More like a good sidestep alternative for UT99.

 

[geogob]

well, I agree with you, but it also means a player can mess with and exploit the engine to a very deep level. I mean, the first time I out ran a rocket during a Q3 FFA match, it all became clear to me

Q3 trick jumping is exploiting the engine to its fullest potential. Exploiting not in the sense of cheating, exploiting in the sense of exploiting. That's what trick jumping is. It's just like how INF exploits the UT engine. It's art.

But then, you have to realise this kind of art, or surfing as you would say, doesn't fit a game like INF very well.

 

[Nukeproof]

Switching from one 6 year old engine to another is most obviously a silly idea...

 

[Fat Marrow]

@Fat Marrow:

Your statement about adding "average" teammembers seems much too much like a conclusion. Are you convinced that no qualified, above average modelers would be interested in joining SS? And your assertion that it"slows things down" while not entirely off the mark makes me think of one thing:


How MUCH slower can SS actually be currently considering their output rate??? Any slower would possibly constitute inaction.

IMHO, adding someone qualified will probably not slow down anything considering SS's workflow rate.

Beyond a certain size team, adding more team members can speed things up, but something like INF is driven by a few key individuals. Certain aspects of the mod (maps, models) can be undertaken in parallel, so more mappers and more modellers means more work done - but making sure the maps and models are consistent and equally high quality can negate any time advantage you may have gained.

As for things like coding, this is typically not something which can be distributed amongst many individuals - often I imagine you'll end up with one person (Beppo) working very hard on one key feature, with everyone else having to wait until he's finished it.

As for how much slower can SS be? By the sounds of it, there's been an awful lot of work going on behind the scenes both on the UT2k4 and CS engines. Sure, some mods release very basic work-in-progress to keep people happy - but this tends to be to the detriment, rather than advantage, of such mods.

 

[Psychomorph]

The game Sum of all Fears is based on an optimized Q3 engine and it looks 100 times better than INF2.9, a hell of lot better.

 

[randomas]

The point is not what can the Q3 engine do now, but what could the Q3 engine do with the addition of a good physics engine (ODE, Newton or a ton of others), maybe a few graphics tweaks (it already has shaders and if nexuiz managed bloom effects on Q1 ... well you get the message) ...

Or look at crystall space3d a full engine, or use OGRE3D graphic engine with wrappers for physics engines ... or ... or ... or ... lot's of stuff out there

 

[Psychomorph]

...or ... or ... or ... lot's of stuff out there

And nothing will happen.

 

[Nukeproof]

The game Sum of all Fears is based on an optimized Q3 engine and it looks 100 times better than INF2.9, a hell of lot better.

http://404.realmud.com/Ghostrecon/index.asp

Ubi Soft has released an 82mb demo (available on Gigex) of the upcoming Tom Clancy's The Sum of All Fears (SOAF) - official site - game for the PC. In the demo, there is one prison map used for single player and multiplayer. The single player level involves neutralizing American militants and rescuing ATF agents.

SOAF is based on the Ghost Recon engine....

 

[Psychomorph]

Isn't ghost recon engine distantly based on the Q3 engine?