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geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Exactly what I said. I personally don't care about vehicles, except some with MG's mounted, that are used to drive from one stret to another and kick some soldier butts.(SDS)benmcl said:
What is the meaning of vehicles when it uses a huge map to drive, where the real firefights would use only 30% of this huge map somewhere in a small village, while the 70% desert collects dust untill a single truck crosses it to transport 3 soldiers to the 30% of combat zone?
I don't think this is the problem (maybe it is?).
Another stupid Question
What is the current state of UT2007? I tend to think the team is right in the whole big maps scope of things. There does not seem to be much point in spending huge amounts of time developing for an engine that isn't scalable and the move to vehicles seems a natural progression.
For a while it looked like Farcry was the way to go. Large realistic maps, bot ai that sought cover and moved strategicly to flank etc vehicles, etc. However, I have seen little movement in the FC camp that encourages me. There is an ironsite mod but I haven't looked at it and UBI has totally misshandled the community despite what initially seem like a lot of support for modders. Maybe this perception is based on the large defection rate to Half-Life 2. Most of the mods featured on the FC website are either dead or moved to HL2.
The only compairison I can make to what I envision as a good possibility is RO. I like RO in a lot of aspects. I really like the mix of vehicles and foot soldiers. I think this sort of thing would work well with INF. Mind you there are a lot of things in RO that are far from perfect. Vehicles are very primitive and have no feeling of mass to them, Bots are about as bad as INF bots, weapons use cone fire, no leaning, etc. On the other hand there is a good attempt to make this game relatively realistic (no crosshairs,etc.).
What is the current state of UT2007? I tend to think the team is right in the whole big maps scope of things. There does not seem to be much point in spending huge amounts of time developing for an engine that isn't scalable and the move to vehicles seems a natural progression.
For a while it looked like Farcry was the way to go. Large realistic maps, bot ai that sought cover and moved strategicly to flank etc vehicles, etc. However, I have seen little movement in the FC camp that encourages me. There is an ironsite mod but I haven't looked at it and UBI has totally misshandled the community despite what initially seem like a lot of support for modders. Maybe this perception is based on the large defection rate to Half-Life 2. Most of the mods featured on the FC website are either dead or moved to HL2.
The only compairison I can make to what I envision as a good possibility is RO. I like RO in a lot of aspects. I really like the mix of vehicles and foot soldiers. I think this sort of thing would work well with INF. Mind you there are a lot of things in RO that are far from perfect. Vehicles are very primitive and have no feeling of mass to them, Bots are about as bad as INF bots, weapons use cone fire, no leaning, etc. On the other hand there is a good attempt to make this game relatively realistic (no crosshairs,etc.).
To suggest that ANY game engine...
any game engine...
is better for your mod than HL2 right now is absolutely ignorant. You want to know why your mod has been dying? It's been dying because INF 2.9 is so unaccessable to new players.
400mb downloads, UT netcode (which has never been as good as any of Valve's in the past 4 years in my opinion), limited servers (How many are european?), limited players (How many servers are empty?)...
The only people left playing your mod are the elitest forum goers who post on threads like this. You need a reality check Sentry Studios.
More members to the team should be added. Members of the current team need to be eliminated, especially if they cannot help this game advance.
Your game is excellent right now. Stop worrying about all those bull**** features you would "really like to have in the next version" and produce something accessable and playable. Yurch said you had the freeaiming, run modes, and leaning implemented in the Source Engine already. That's about half of what I like about Infiltration. You only need a half dozen weapons and two or three good maps to get this mod out on the Source scene.
any game engine...
is better for your mod than HL2 right now is absolutely ignorant. You want to know why your mod has been dying? It's been dying because INF 2.9 is so unaccessable to new players.
400mb downloads, UT netcode (which has never been as good as any of Valve's in the past 4 years in my opinion), limited servers (How many are european?), limited players (How many servers are empty?)...
The only people left playing your mod are the elitest forum goers who post on threads like this. You need a reality check Sentry Studios.
More members to the team should be added. Members of the current team need to be eliminated, especially if they cannot help this game advance.
Your game is excellent right now. Stop worrying about all those bull**** features you would "really like to have in the next version" and produce something accessable and playable. Yurch said you had the freeaiming, run modes, and leaning implemented in the Source Engine already. That's about half of what I like about Infiltration. You only need a half dozen weapons and two or three good maps to get this mod out on the Source scene.
j03 said:
Let's recap to see if I got this right:
The mod is dying because it is inaccessible, so it should be moved to a game that costs more than UT and is tied into Steam.
The mod is dying because it involves a 400 Mb download, so it should be moved to a game that self-installs 400 Mb patches any time it feels like it.
The mod is dying because few people play it, so we should do away with all those elitist forum goers as well.
More members need to be added to the team (but preferably not elitist forum goers), so the team should start asking people to leave.
The game is excellent right now, so don't include any bullsh*t features like the 50% of features which Inf needs and which are still missing.
Did I miss anything?
Edit: I know I'm twisting your words slightly; I'm just joshing with ya.
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flamebait?
When I suggest picking an engine you can get your hands dirty with, I'm perfectly conscious that a mod team's main production is content rather than engine code. I have enormous respect and awe for the work the sentry folks have done ... hell I can barely balance a job a girlfriend, rent and a bank account ... let alone part time coding ...
First off the Q3 engine ain't the only thing out there ... I just used it as a first well known example ... there are others, let's look around ... the links I posted were examples done with the ogre3d graphics engine and a wrapper for the Open Dynamics Engine.
I must admit that I agree with the "drop the vehicles" argument ... I want to shoot at things in the most realistic manner possible, not dying because whoever was driving the jeep capsised again ... On the other hand OFP with sentry style weapon handling would be a dream ...
I want to go back to uni so I can have spare time for side projects and beer and partying and female arts students and and and ...
When I suggest picking an engine you can get your hands dirty with, I'm perfectly conscious that a mod team's main production is content rather than engine code. I have enormous respect and awe for the work the sentry folks have done ... hell I can barely balance a job a girlfriend, rent and a bank account ... let alone part time coding ...
First off the Q3 engine ain't the only thing out there ... I just used it as a first well known example ... there are others, let's look around ... the links I posted were examples done with the ogre3d graphics engine and a wrapper for the Open Dynamics Engine.
I must admit that I agree with the "drop the vehicles" argument ... I want to shoot at things in the most realistic manner possible, not dying because whoever was driving the jeep capsised again ... On the other hand OFP with sentry style weapon handling would be a dream ...
I want to go back to uni so I can have spare time for side projects and beer and partying and female arts students and and and ...
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The mod is dying because no one has UT installed anymore. The facts are plain enough the install base of UT is shrinking. INF owns a small percentage of that install base so INF to is shrinking. People expect more from games today. There are of course a few hardcore people who will cling to INF for a number of years but eventually it will fade away.
The question at hand is where do we go from here?
The question at hand is where do we go from here?
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j03 said:
AWACS, this is Raven 1, over.
Raven 1, we copy, over.
AWACS, I'm picking up what looks like a troll, can you confirm, over.
Raven 1, we confirm the troll, you are cleared to engage.
AWACS, we copy, moving to engage.
jayhova said:
I have to remark, very well said.
Currently, I do not play INF anymore because I am simply too underwhelmed by it's outdated graphics (while good for that time) and while Tactical, somewhat uninspiring presentation. and lack of some contemporary features (after having played countless Tactical FPSs).
Plus, I have simply moved on like many others.I firmly believe that other than a few stalwart supoorters here, hardly any (none that I know) even have UT99 installed. To ask them to reinstall and investigate an outdated game is for many, simply too much to ask.
Infiltration for UT99 was great in 99, and 2000. and so on,BUT many other games (Raven Shield, JO, BF2, SWAT 4, etc for example) have appeared that simply sparkle and steals INF's thunder. So INF99 in 2005, just doesn't have that "zing" anymore. Not ALL, but for many. INF is still a good game, and always be. But it goes without saying that few people discuss the merits of the old Ford Model T versus a new 2005, say Hummer.
You know, I didn't want to say anything negative, and I am only stating an opinion. That's all. But, I just wish we could have many of these same features as I previously suggested in a newer game engine.
Finally, with all due respect, Beppo, your sincere and appreciated reply makes me feel that essentially there's not much time nor motivation to do anything else with anything.
Perhaps a code tweak or new weapon here and there for INF2.9 but nothing major for the time being and the near future.
In essence, perhaps we are talking, but not listening.
Perhaps SS are just done with this, and this is the most anyone is going to get out of them, and we just don't want to hear it.
But I do.
No offense, my friends, but to ME, I really don't see much of anything substantial coming out of this anymore.
And the UT2007 move? If the team is already discouraged by all these other options, and the simple fact that Modding takes an ENORMOUS amount of time to coordinate and execute, I believe we will see (if ever) an INF UT07 perhaps in 2010, at the earliest.
No use in beating a dead horse.
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I myself have tried all these new kewl wizbang games including BF 2.
The conclusion. Pretty pictures and not much else.
I return to Infiltration for the simple reason that still to this day it has far better game play than anything with a multimillion dollar budget. I simple have more fun.
Is Infiltration the perfect game. Not by a long shot. I see the flaws and the problems but to this day it is still better than anythign else out there.
The conclusion. Pretty pictures and not much else.
I return to Infiltration for the simple reason that still to this day it has far better game play than anything with a multimillion dollar budget. I simple have more fun.
Is Infiltration the perfect game. Not by a long shot. I see the flaws and the problems but to this day it is still better than anythign else out there.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Yes, flamebait resumes it all. Nuff said...
So like a good elitist forum goer, I will now ignore thee.
EDIT:
Now why people do not care to install it and play it is the question you have to ask. Don't you think?
So like a good elitist forum goer, I will now ignore thee.
EDIT:
And saying a mod dies because the game is not intalled anymore is quite silly. If people want to play the game they'll install it. I still have it... why? because I WANT to play it. It all starts there.
Now why people do not care to install it and play it is the question you have to ask. Don't you think?
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I think you are putting the cart before the horse here. The prolem is that there are little or no NEW players. This is because there isn't anyone looking at mods for a game that isn't for sale anymore. I believe that most of the people who play INF didn't go out and buy UT so that they could play it, They played it because they had UT and wanted to see what mods there were for it. This is to say that it there was a really kickass mod for Doom or Wolfenstein 3D it wouldn't matter because the install base of those games is now so small that the mod would have virtually no interest.
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geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
UTGOTY is available in every retail store I've been to recently. Cheap too. Maybe people are just too stupid to buy good cheap games and rush to poor and stupid 80$ ones.
Edit: oh yeah! the 80$ ones look good and come in nice packages.
Edit: oh yeah! the 80$ ones look good and come in nice packages.
People have moved on. I havn't looked for a new mod for UT in years, and I don't plan to do so, because it is assumed that no one developes for it.
Buying UT for playing INF is just like buying any outdated game you picked out of the flood, for specific reasons - only differences you'll find far less references in print mags etc. compared to retail products.
While playing FarCry I figured: After a few hours - once you are 'inside' the game, you don't realise the beauty of the graphics as much - same goes for "ugly" graphics. (It's just a little pain to get there ) And there are some really nice maps, where you'd hardly guess it is still UT99...
On vehicles: trying to compete with BF/JO style games is pointless on INF's level of realism. But the concept Beppo once explained sounds pretty interesting. Vehicles should IMHO strictly attach to the mission and not be the general upgrade to infantrie. (I never got why vehicles can capture a controlpoint in BF)
On the status of INF and Sentry: I don't see how there is that much room for interpretations. Developement of anything beyond 2.9 is halted and unless something like UT2007 is able to re-attract their full interest - we are at the end of the story - sad but true
While playing FarCry I figured: After a few hours - once you are 'inside' the game, you don't realise the beauty of the graphics as much - same goes for "ugly" graphics. (It's just a little pain to get there
) And there are some really nice maps, where you'd hardly guess it is still UT99...On vehicles: trying to compete with BF/JO style games is pointless on INF's level of realism. But the concept Beppo once explained sounds pretty interesting. Vehicles should IMHO strictly attach to the mission and not be the general upgrade to infantrie. (I never got why vehicles can capture a controlpoint in BF)
On the status of INF and Sentry: I don't see how there is that much room for interpretations.
Developement of anything beyond 2.9 is halted and unless something like UT2007 is able to re-attract their full interest - we are at the end of the story - sad but true
INF is dying? How a corpse can die? Maybe like Saddam Hussein said in the movie Hot Shots (2?); 'I kill you as long till you die', muahah.
No seriously. Jayhova is right, INF is not cappable to get new players just due to the reason 'UT'. INF can live today only on the palyers that are allready there from the glory days, and strangely they aren't many.
The only 'newcomer' are realism freaks that search for 'the game', but had no clue about INF untill now, exactly like it happened to me. I had an UT mods CD lying for a long time without any idea. Than I wanted to check all the UT mods on this CD and reads they is a game called INF with ironsights, I installed it...
I would still have no idea about INF without this CD and the small picture of cuban down on the cover and the few lines ultra small lines saying 'Ironsights' (which I missed to notice long time, muahah).
Many players, even those who appreciate realism simply dislike INF due to for me understandable reasons (I talked to players), because those reason I would bring up agains INF aswell.
To be honest they are so many things I hate in INF, but what got me to play it are just the few things that only INF have. I never had an alternative, thats why I´m here.
Already about two years I´m fed up with INF and visited the Forums pretty much only to suggest next version stuff, cuz I knew te S-Studios are probably the single chance to have a realsitic game, thats why I came up with all my suggestions only here in the INF Forums.
I just hoped the next, optimized version of INF on a newer engine will be out somewhere soon.
... WTF, why I'm typing all this? Anyway, I have no time waiting for the next INF somewhen. I´m with 'Hull Breach' now, a sci-fi space ship-boarding warfare mod for HL2 based on as much realism as possible. With huge professional staff, who actually appreciate suggestions and help by a sound company.
When the next INF will come out I'll be here, untill then I'm away.
Oh and the prob with INF:Source is just that the devs have their specific wishes for the game which they can't create in an acceptable speed.
... WTF? I'm still typing.
No seriously. Jayhova is right, INF is not cappable to get new players just due to the reason 'UT'. INF can live today only on the palyers that are allready there from the glory days, and strangely they aren't many.
The only 'newcomer' are realism freaks that search for 'the game', but had no clue about INF untill now, exactly like it happened to me. I had an UT mods CD lying for a long time without any idea. Than I wanted to check all the UT mods on this CD and reads they is a game called INF with ironsights, I installed it...
I would still have no idea about INF without this CD and the small picture of cuban down on the cover and the few lines ultra small lines saying 'Ironsights' (which I missed to notice long time, muahah).
Many players, even those who appreciate realism simply dislike INF due to for me understandable reasons (I talked to players), because those reason I would bring up agains INF aswell.
To be honest they are so many things I hate in INF, but what got me to play it are just the few things that only INF have. I never had an alternative, thats why I´m here.
Already about two years I´m fed up with INF and visited the Forums pretty much only to suggest next version stuff, cuz I knew te S-Studios are probably the single chance to have a realsitic game, thats why I came up with all my suggestions only here in the INF Forums.
I just hoped the next, optimized version of INF on a newer engine will be out somewhere soon.
... WTF, why I'm typing all this? Anyway, I have no time waiting for the next INF somewhen. I´m with 'Hull Breach' now, a sci-fi space ship-boarding warfare mod for HL2 based on as much realism as possible. With huge professional staff, who actually appreciate suggestions and help by a sound company.
When the next INF will come out I'll be here, untill then I'm away.
Oh and the prob with INF:Source is just that the devs have their specific wishes for the game which they can't create in an acceptable speed.
... WTF? I'm still typing.
Fat Marrow said:Let's recap to see if I got this right:
The mod is dying because it is inaccessible, so it should be moved to a game that costs more than UT and is tied into Steam.
The mod is dying because it involves a 400 Mb download, so it should be moved to a game that self-installs 400 Mb patches any time it feels like it.
The mod is dying because few people play it, so we should do away with all those elitist forum goers as well.
More members need to be added to the team (but preferably not elitist forum goers), so the team should start asking people to leave.
The game is excellent right now, so don't include any bullsh*t features like the 50% of features which Inf needs and which are still missing.
Did I miss anything?
Edit: I know I'm twisting your words slightly; I'm just joshing with ya.
Okay here we go. I know you're just joshin' me, but here for everyone else.
Point #1: Yes. You're absolutely right. The only system of games (for lack of a better word for steam) that has a bigger player base than Steam is probably EverCrack.. I mean Quest.
Point #2: The mod doesn't NEED to be 400 some odd MB's to download. It's bloated with maps and textures that aren't hardly used. Also, the only things that are automatically updated by Steam are the official Valve mods. Also, I've never gotten a higher download speed ANYWHERE than from the Steam pipeline. I even had a fileplanet subscription for a while.
Point #3: The elitest forum goers need to lighten up. If you really "love" this game, you'd be happy to share it with new players. How many clans here would love to see more competition?
Point #4: Remove people who can't get anything done and replace them with people who can make progress on the game.
Point #5: It's trying to implement those features that will run the game into the ground. I think it will be years before a suitable engine comes around so you can have your tanks, your jeeps, your helicopters, your transformers... okay maybe not transformers, but you get the idea.
Some of you've got the right idea (jayhova).