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Bad news posted

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by erehwoN, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    If you think that means a volunteer team can make Q3 jump ahead 6 years in graphics, you're going to be dissapointed. An "engine update" will take longer than the game.
     
  2. Demosthanese

    Demosthanese .

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    Geobob, to trickjump, you have to shoot yourself. It also relies on the increased force of the explosion above a realistic level. Trick jumping on a q3 mod is aslikely as impact hammer jumping is in INF.

    Q3 has become open, that means that to any dev that wants to work on it, nothing at all is hard coded. It means a game that is independant of any other game, so should someone wish to play it, all they must do is download and install. It also means that they can improve the graphics engine and impliment a custom physics engine, should they so desire.
     
  3. randomas

    randomas New Member

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    I don't think we need that much of a graphics update ... All that's realy needed is T&L support to move the load from the CPU to the GPU so you can use the free cycles for physics and AI. Missing effects ? what do you realy need that's not in there that hasn't already been coded in ? bloom effect for scopes? ok rippit out of darkplaces or another of the Q1 or Q2 engines and plug it in. It's not inconcievably difficult to do ... Real problems are is the level of detail switching and adjustment apropriate for big outdoor levels and if not can it be coded and how easy or hard is plugging a physics engine in there.

    And again the Q engines arn't the only ones out there ...

    Why not post the specs of what they want in an engine and send the community on a wild engine hunt to see who manages to find the best first?;)
     
  4. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Again, you people are crazy.

    I don't know about the other modders, but I know I certainly don't have a background in graphics/OGL/DirectX coding. By the looks of the very little availible HL2 code regarding the physics interface, incorporating any sort of physics simulation would be inconcievably difficult.

    Remember, it took this team 2+ years to get out two gametypes and a few weapons, and this with a language and artwork formats they were familiar with.
     
  5. FieldMedic

    FieldMedic Less good UT Player ever

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    No, the Ghost Recon engine is a very big improvement of the engine featured in Rainbow Six then Rogue Spear.

    About quake 3 engine abuse , isn't that more related to the code and the maps allowing those "engine exploits" ?

    If my memory does not betray me, ID even produced a beta patch for Quake 3 , removing the bug that was opening all those engine exploit , but in front of the amount of screams there were from their community, they re-introduced it in the non beta patch that followed.
    In the early Quake 3 versions, firing an explosive object under a platform could hurt the player/bot that was on this platform, again they modified the code so it couldn't happen again.

    With an engine open source , i can imagine this part of the code could be fixed/modifed at any convenience, as it is already modifiable as a Q3 "mod" like those mods "CPM" or "Generations" have modified this "engine tricks" physic as part of their features.

    In Call of Duty/Medal of Honor using the same Quake 3 engine "bunny hopping/circle strafing/ninja blue zeep/etc..." exploits are not possible anymore if i am not mistaken somehow.

    But isn't coding/programming an open source engine like the recent Quake 3 one way different and more difficult than coding a modification for an existing game ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  6. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    You don't have to shoot yourself for trickjumping. yet you can, but you don't have too... depends what you want to do. There are only very few "tricks" that need use of a weapon. That would things like the rocket jump, rocket/grenade boost, plasma climb. There are thousands of trick jumping techniques, most of which do not require use of a weapon/explosion.
     
  7. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    Are these physic engines free? Why is every commercial project licensing Havoc then?

    IMO physics engine should be very low prio anyway (at least for the infantrie part)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  8. randomas

    randomas New Member

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    When you license something you're buying someone to screem at if things don't work exactly the way you want'em to ... I'm not saying that these projekts are the bees knees and alpha omega of game physics, far from it. But their available out there NOW and FREE!

    And yes working from the source upwards is harder because you're not locked safely into a play pen, modifying the inner workings of an engine requires a greater knowledge base and skill. As with all things you only get what you're willing to put into it.

    Have a look at what can be done (just as quick examples) with Ogre and ODE:

    http://www.green-eyed-monster.com/fds_demo.avi
    and
    http://www.green-eyed-monster.com/walking_ragdoll.avi

    As far as I'm concerned game physics is very important (even without vehicles), just think about propper nade behaviour and ineraction with map objects ... I' not saying these are perfect solutions ... just solutions that should be considered ...

    Nobody expects people to become graphics coders at the drop of a hat ... But i'm sure there's more than a few colledge kids up to the task out there especially if their given a chance to work with people as skilled as the sentry crew ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  9. Death Touch

    Death Touch New Member

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    Thanks for your replies, Fat Marrow and Yurch. And thanks to the concerned community members for trying to find a solution and actively help SS to achieve something great. Thanks for being a positive community.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  10. OICW

    OICW Reason & Logic > Religion

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    The only way I could possibly see Inf on the Quake 3 engine would be if a quite improved and stable version of the engine (like Quake 2 Evolved for example) was available right now. Even if that was the case, I still think it'd be rather dubious.

    Mapping for Quake engine games is very different from UED, so you'd need people experienced with QERadiant or whatever Q3 uses.
     
  11. randomas

    randomas New Member

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    Whatever engine you choose (unless it's unreal which changes from one version to the next) you're going to have to learn a new developement stack ...
     
  12. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Ok, I was horribly misinformed about that.
     
  13. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    Folks, I and the rest of the Sentry Studios Team members do have real life jobs. So our spare time is limited obviously.
    Now take the development of a 'standard' game engine... if you do it from scratch, then you 'normally' need 1-2 years to get something together that is 'ok'. If you want the newest stuff to be included as well, then you can add at least another year. Normally game engines develop thru years, get updated continously to match the new criterias and hardware surroundings that do continously develop too of course. And... you need at least this amount of time if you do it full time.
    If you now take an engine with all the sources available but several years old and out of further development in terms of regular updates, then you will have a nice base to start with, but you still need to get it on todays standards. And this means some additional years of development, full time.

    If you buy a licensed game engine, then you normally buy further developments and improvements too. Means, if you license the current Unreal engine, then you can either buy it as is, or you can license it in a way that lets you get regular updates.
    This means that you and your company/team can concentrate on developing game content plus some engine internal changes, but the engine itself is developed and improved by another company/team. And then you still need years for developing a game... and this means that you have two full-time companys/teams working on this game actually, cause you get regular engine updates and stuff alike.
    And as yurch already said, you would need folks that have the knowledge about programming graphics, physics and stuff alike.

    Now look at a mod team. What a mod team does is using a fully working engine or better a fully working game as a platform to develop their own content on top of the original. This means that you only need to develop new content, in terms of codes, 3D stuff, sounds, textures, maps and stuff alike. And this is only the tip of the iceberg of the whole product that then shows up as a mod/TC. This stuff alone consumes a lot of time. Time that many of you will never invest in some sort of hobby such as modding is. Many of you have decent hobbies and invest almost if not all of their spare time for them, now think about this a bit more and I guess you will finally find out how much time mod development really needs. I'm not talking about small mods that add this or that little feature. I'm talking about full TCs like Infiltration. These need a lot of time to develop.... and this is all done within our spare time.

    Now if you want to start talking about such things seriously, then please consider all this.... or ... get out the masta plan from Nukeproof ;)
     
  14. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Because of real life jobs a team needs more members and if possible some that go still to school who have sometimes more time.

    I have a real life job too and find only time for playing INF few hours few tiems in a week. Incredible that you still could pull out a working latest INF version.

    But that is not how it works (because it doesn't). They are mod teams out there having huge staff, they release game content footage frequently. They have deadlines and so on. They is something in progress and you even do not ask if they have enough time.
     
  15. Domox

    Domox New Member

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    lol wow its good to hear we arent the only ones with people making Q3 Engine suggestions.... Hrrrrrm I wonder if a paypal button can make 30k a year so they can have 1 fulltime person living on ramen and kerosine heat working on this.... lol
     
  16. AlmostAlive

    AlmostAlive Active Member

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    We have just about 30 dev team members and the same amount of beta testers at ready. Granted, some are not as active as they used to be, but I honestly can't see how bringing in more would speed up anything with the logistics and organizing that would be involved. A big company would be able to handle it, but Sentrystudios is not exactly Epic, or Valve for that matter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2005
  17. Domox

    Domox New Member

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    Personel and infrastructure (time, machines, time, experience,time) Its what makes and breaks things...
     
  18. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    Q3 is only good for very small maps. Maps the size of Bordertown, etc. are not possible. You try it and the computer will work on compiling it for about 10 hours and then usually just crash. I have tried it in Radiant numerous times.

    Beppo, what do you think about BF2? It has vehicles and such already and vast amounts of space.

    I have heard that it has problems, but those should be patched with time.
     
  19. Domox

    Domox New Member

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    Im not beppo but my group was shopping for an engine awhile back this is what we found out....
    BF2 does not have terrifically customizable physics. So ballistic coef. etc would be hard to manipulate, and it doesnt have hardly anything in place to handle complex inventories or bolt on weapons. You are working within a limited framework in quite a few regards, whatever you make will be just another skin to BF2....
     
  20. (SDS)benmcl

    (SDS)benmcl Why not visit us here in the real world.

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    I keep reading about vehicles here. Over and over and over it is vehicles, vehicles, vehicles.

    Lets step back for a moment. Is the issue with map size directly connected with this very strange desire to have vehicles in Iniltration? Is maps size for vehicles the big thing holding everything back?

    If so then drop the damn things. I never really had a desire for vehicles in Inifiltraion any how. I have played a bit of BF 2. Still waiting for the option to remove vehicles from it.

    Atleast take a look at what the next version of Infiltration would be like with out vehicles.

    If I want to drive I would start up one of my driving games. If I want to shoot people I startup up Infiltration. Lets for now keep them sperate.
     

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