Bad news posted

[zeep]

2.9 can still give me good games. Good meaning fun, not neccesarily a good engine or good fps. I am in the process of giving up gaming for a year or more because i can't permit myself that much free time anymore. In a way, this news is aiding my decision.

Anyway, inf2.9 is still a game i enjoy playing with a certain group of good people. If they all skip, i won't play it.

 

[Beppo]

Well what other to say than what Almost and Alpha_9 already did on the first page of this thread...
Just can second this one here full-heartedly:

Anyway we plan to stay in touch and hopefully we'll get inspiration again at some point with something like UT2007 (or HL3 ), so don't count us out!

 

[Psychomorph]

Hmm, I ask myself since when you know this decision? A week, a month?

BTW, someone said here that the leak of devteam member wasn't the problem, meh I don't belive this. Who are the coders? Yurch, yurch and yurch? That way you'll reach a tempo of
de-developing.
Look other mods, several coders with a lead coder.

I don't think S-Studios leaks of artists, modelers and level designers, but coding is the core, is that slow is everything slow and the mod will degenerate itself.

 

[Psychomorph]

Let's see:

1. Insurgency Mod Staff

2. Infiltration Mod Staff?

 

[Crowze]

Quality not quantity - it's almost guranteed that any HL mod will have lots of offers of help simply because of the size of it's community as a whole. Besides, INS still doesn't have any technical advisors or whatever you want to call them, so I'm skeptical as to the realism side of it when it comes down to details.

The Inf team can be found on the Inf site (funnily enough) although it's not been updated for a few months and, considering this latest decision, probably won't be updated for a while.

 

[geogob]

Psychomorph. First you assume that yurch is the only coder and that sentry-studios lacks coders (which might be true), but then you clearly show that you have no clue who is on the team.

Flamebait +1

 

[[UMC]Boron]

Let's see:

1. Insurgency Mod Staff

2. Infiltration Mod Staff?

Here ya go!

Infiltration Mod Staff

 

[yurch]

Thats true, but the players want realism.

No, they don't. If they did, they would be here now. "Realism" in the sense of technical attention to detail is obviously not enough.

UT's graphical ability is poor enough to kill any suspension of disbelief once you've seen a more modern game. That is our problem, I believe.

 

[Logan6]

Bingo! You don't need anything new, you just need to port as is to another engine. i.e UT2007. While porting to 2007 will be really tough, I think it would be easier than making a whole new game from scratch because the main template is there, it just needs to be modified. And yes, I have looked at the code ( I know the main weapon module is about 200 pages long! ) so its going to be tough. But I think its doable.

I would be happy just to see the game run as is on UT2007.

Of course, we have to wait for it to come out first

 

[geogob]

Logan, you cannot *just* port a mod to another engine. It's not that easy. Doing so will probably take as much time as redoing everything from scratch (you may save on some artwork). But then, if you keep the same artwork, you won't be able to sell your game/mod because it won't be up to this engine's standard, hence a good and perfect waste of time. (in my opinion, that is).

No, what should be done (IMO again), is to start *now* for a mod for UT2007. Get the artwork and animation done, get contacts going with Epic, get your feets into the production stage to get access to early SDK/Beta for mod developement. Basically, do it so the mod can be released pretty fast after the game release (hence being among the firsts). Have people take the time to design game modes and levels (on paper) so that as soon the team gets access to the needed ressources the final design steps can go quickly. If you wait until the engine gets out, you'll miss the train. Go for it, go talk with Epic dev. Talk to them about your needs and goals (and dreams) and they'll tell you of UT2007 will be the engine for you.

I make it sound a bit simple, I admit it. But if no one tries and pushes in that direction, never will it happen.

 

[Vega-don]

Quality not quantity - it's almost guranteed that any HL mod will have lots of offers of help simply because of the size of it's community as a whole. Besides, INS still doesn't have any technical advisors or whatever you want to call them, so I'm skeptical as to the realism side of it when it comes down to details.

The Inf team can be found on the Inf site (funnily enough) although it's not been updated for a few months and, considering this latest decision, probably won't be updated for a while.

ins will do it for me. honestly, Ins will probably be as much realistic as inf 2.9 was and most likely more. theires many flaws in 2.9 realism. technical advisors or not.
inf 2.9 is not perfect for realism but it makes an almost realistic gameplay.
ill still play 2.9 , i dont care anymore to play with 2000 players, as long as i can do good games from time to time with good players.

inf canceling is sad, but INS is going to be what inf is to ut. dont bash them.

 

[Logan6]

Yeah, it looks like Insurgency is going to be the next INF style game for HL2. I hope its just as realistic as INF. Looks really nice. Maybe SS should talk with the INS team and see if they would be interested in merging.

 

[UN17]

How can you know so much about a mod that isn't out yet and has no gameplay movies nor a feature list? I hope Insurgency will be fun, but they don't have anything to show yet, except models and maps.

 

[Vega-don]

i did look at the forums and the posts from the devs

realistic iron sight, movement, weapons. etc

 

[geogob]

*points at UN*........ "good point".

Some say that screenshots are not enough to have a good opinion or even an idea on a game and that movies are necessary, or that you even need to play the game to have an idea.

But forums... forums are useless in that matter. They can say what ever people want to hear. We call that marketing.

 

[yurch]

It's beyond marketing, think echo-chamber propaganda instead.

 

[Psychomorph]

I sumply don't belive that INS will reach a very high functional realism status. If it will I will be very glad.

They want to have the shouldered weapon beeing pointed slightly down in the 3rd person (few degres), while the 1st person weapon is still visually pointed forward. Allready something I dislike, I hate if the 3rd person and 1st person don't match. I want to be able to control a weapon low position manually and choose when to point it exactly forward.

They want to include a large freeaim for aiming, something which is one of my biggest complaints about INF.


The other things seems to be ok. Ironsights are 3D only, but the M16A4 sight is pretty good and realistic.


Byside the weapon handling (which is one of the most important things to me in such a game) I can't find big problems about INS (yet).

I just need to play the demo to be sure.



@[UMC]Boron:
I didn't doubt S-Studios has enought artists and modelers and level designers, but they are only two coders named, one is Beppo (off), another is magistrator. Dunno if magi was still coding, but yurch was and as geogob says Flamebait. That seems to be 2? (what the heck I know...).
Well INS has at least 4 actively working programmers.

No, they don't. If they did, they would be here now. "Realism" in the sense of technical attention to detail is obviously not enough.

As I said one of the main things about realism is the visual part, not only the technical/functional. But you can't take one without another. You need the technical aswell the visual realism, having only one will make you fail.

Having a game, where the palyers can take 2 shots and keep kickin is not fun. Seeing them running around with an contineous aimed weapon and doing instant shots (nearly without aiming time) isn't fun either. But at the same time having a scoped rifle (acog) and not beeing able to shoot from a more stable and accurate shouldered position, but instead from hip isn't fun too.

But on the other hand seeing some retarded reloading animations, ugly skins and weapons, a clumsy 1st person (which all is not the case in INF), sucks the same.

As said I think S-Studios has some nice mapping/modelling/animating/skinning staff, that could match up with INS. Of course the coders are skilled too (from what we saw), but the actual concept of INF is just wrong (concept).


You say that realism orintated players would play INF if they would be really realism orintated, but exactly those people don't like the weapon handling in INF, because it is just simply not realistic, I don't like it either and I´m realism orintated. Actually only the freeaim is what makes me like the whole much more.

The reason why I´m here is because of the next version that I was sure would get some things right. The actual INF is more of a side thing to me, allready since nearly two years and I´m still here, because I thought S-Studios are the only one who can make something decently realistic. I decided to suggest my useless ideas only here, since I doubt any other would really go so deep into 'realism'.

They are features in INF that I dislike very much and I understand why it disattracts players (various of them told me this).


BTW yurch you seem to be absolutely fine with the actual INF concept (weapon aiming wise), I respect this, but I absolutely can't understant it.
Imo it is the concept of the current INF that isn't good on some parts.

 

[yurch]

As I said one of the main things about realism is the visual part, not only the technical/functional. But you can't take one without another. You need the technical aswell the visual realism, having only one will make you fail.

Games take one without the other all the time. BF2 has "visual realism" but not technical attention, and it's one of the more popular things on the planet right now. Same with CS:S.

Having a game, where the palyers can take 2 shots and keep kickin is not fun.

I enjoy many games where the hitcount far exceeds 2 shots. Try not to wishlist so much, it doesn't help anything. You can cherry pick every wrongdoing to accuse inf of, but I hardly think that you can chalk our poor player situation up to any minor detail.

We did have more players in 2.83-2.86, you realize. These had more than glaring gameplay problems and technical errors.

But on the other hand seeing some retarded reloading animations, ugly skins and weapons, a clumsy 1st person (which all is not the case in INF), sucks the same.

Graphics are the most powerful form of gaming advertisement, especially for FPS games which are about immersion. "Realism" or technical details rarely has anything to do with it.

 

[Death Touch]

@Yurch,

Yurch, thanks for the replies. And thanks to all INF team members for their sincere no BS replies.

Yurch, I believe you feel that the UT engine is not suitable for realism. This what I thought you implied.

However, the two games that I believe many people can agree on being the most current realistic Tactical FPS are America's Army and Rainbow Six: Raven Shield.
I know everyone is aware that both (and TC's Splinter Cell series) DO use the Unreal Engine.
Can you please explain if
1: You have visions of EXTREME Hyper realism that cannot be (pardon the pun)realized in this Engine?
2. Is it because the UT Ed and Modding in general for UT is simply to clumsy and laborious for the team to handle?

Currently there are at least 3 Mods that , while not ultra realistic, do look very good (in varying degrees), have very good map, weapon, and charcacter models, excellent textures, and easy to use UIs, etc.
And all have the potential for pretty much all the current INF features including some (which I like and would like to see one day)Psycomorph's suggestion/ideas.

Essentally, we are looking for:
Realistic Player character models depicting real world CT/SOF units.(authentic loadouts and gear)
Realistic Weapons(models, skins, dynamics)
Realistic player movement: walk, run, sprint, crouch, prone
Realistic maps (Iraq, Afghanistan, S. Africa,etc) and thoughtful layout for maps.
Easy to use interface.
Multiple character skins to choose from.
Excellent life like sounds.

These are IMHO, essential. Everything else, is icing on the cake.


These Mods (I know some ppl already know this)


1. SAS:Into the Lion's Den:

http://sas.jolt.co.uk/


2. StrikeForce:

http://www.strikeforce2004.com/


3. Jungle Warfare:

http://www.junglewarfare.jolt.co.uk/




While they are of varying style and quality based on opinion, one thing for sure they do exhibit potential. IMHO this potential can and should be used by the INF team.
I would sincerely appreciate your honest replies to this query and any response from other team members on this topic.
I firmly believe that given a chance , the INF team can create a spectacular, action packed Tactical FPS for the UT2004 engine, that while perhaps not feature every single option, can indeed provide hours of excitement and tactical entertainment for INF fans. Given that the INF team are experienced and there are overwhelming amounts of info in Unreal Modding, I firmly believe that this is the way to go, rather than wait another 2 years and have nothing.

Thanks for your time, and I await your replies.

 

[geogob]

less typing and more playing INF.