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Bad news posted

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by erehwoN, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    Well many thanx Yurch for at least trying... I can imagine how you feel with all this endless wishlists floating in the forum...

    Thank you Sentry for all the fun you provided we owe you! I still love 2.9 but keeping bright visions is pretty tough with nothing left to wait for.
     
  2. cracwhore

    cracwhore I'm a video game review site...

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    There comes a time when you have to just do something - in order to keep your fanbase alive.


    This - is one of those times...


    Personally, I think it's time for UT2K7. If that engine isn't good enough - might as well call it a day.
     
  3. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

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    Yes that would be awesome.
     
  4. flamingknives

    flamingknives New Member

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    At a rough guess, I'd say that I'm the person on these fora least bothered by this news.

    That's right, I'm a stinkin' Mac user.

    I was gutted when SS declared for HL2. Now, it makes no difference.
     
  5. cracwhore

    cracwhore I'm a video game review site...

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    Well, the good news is - if they pick anything within the next few years - you can count on it being UT2K7 (which will be cross-platform).

    Then, for once - I can use my macs to actually play INF...rather than watching a slideshow of in-game footage. Hooray!
     
  6. Alpha_9

    Alpha_9 Infiltration lead level designer

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    Not an easy business...

    I haven't posted in these forums in a while, but I'll put in my own US $0.02. It's easy to underestimate the amount of time, effort, and coordination required for a team of people to take an idea for a mod and make it a reality, and do it in their free time. There's a ton of work involved, and it's no accident that so many mods are started, for various games, that never survive to completion or even a meaningful release. It's like businesses in real life, many small businesses are started every year, but only a fraction succeed in the end. I'm proud of the fact Sentry Studios stuck it through and acheived the release of INF 2.9, even if it took a very long time. But unfortunately the task of doing it all over again from scratch for a new engine required more time and work than we were able to put in during the last couple years. New recruits did help, but the prolonged debates over game engines and mod concepts we had made it very difficult to retain these new members, who for the most part moved on before long. And that's just how it goes, it's a very tough business doing these mods like I said...

    Anyway we plan to stay in touch and hopefully we'll get inspiration again at some point with something like UT2007 (or HL3 ;) ), so don't count us out! :)
     
  7. [UMC]Boron

    [UMC]Boron UMC's Official Drunkard

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    well there is always that "realism" mod for HL2 that i dont think has been released yet. Looks like i'll be jumping ship over there when it's done.
     
  8. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    I rather tend to think that you (the devs) have to high 'dreams'. I think the community would be satisfied with something that works, with something that can be played.
    I personally just need a weapon to use it realsitic (lowready, highready, aim) a movement suitable for all combat situations (slow walk, fast walk, jog, sprint). A gamemod to have fun. And enough visual photorealism.
    I think this is nothing you (the devs) can't make, but it's not enough for you and you rather quit than making something scaled-down.

    Not that I have a problem with that, it's your decision.
     
  9. AlmostAlive

    AlmostAlive Active Member

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    When was the last time this community, as a whole, was satisfied with anything? I'm myself among those who think that there's always room for improvement. What you listed that you wanted was exactly what I, and I believe the rest of the team wanted for the first release and it's exactly what was planned and exactly what wasn't possible to make happen. There are no "just's" and "only's". Please don't think that we just woke up one day and decided "Nah, let's not bother with this". It was a long process with much agony and tears before the final decision was reached.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2005
  10. Mr. HotDog

    Mr. HotDog [Insert Text Here]

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    This really wasnt a suprise. I think everyone knew deep down INF has been over for a while now. But then again, mods in general arent as popular as they once were (1998-2002). Ah, that was the golden ara. Good ol' Action Quake 2 and Action Half-Life. Firearms was a blast. Even Counter-Strike was fun as hell before it got mad successful. And of course INF. I had the best gaming experiences ever with these mods.

    So heres not only to INF, but to all the classics, :cheers: They will be missed, but never forgotten
     
  11. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    The most playable form of the HL2 thing right now has the free-leaning, aiming, vectorized weapon movement, a toggled walk, tweaked damage and movement speed/momentum towards realism, truefirstperson camera system, a poor implementation of that 'feature' in the other thread, and a weighted spawn system. With a decent map it'll play RAv3ish, I think.

    RAv3 with a crossbow, laser mines, and a grav gun.

    This is without mute's currently unworking gametype and well, any imported artwork whatsoever aside from the lean animations. The netcode is 'different' in regards for the vectorized aiming, and probably needs to be stress-tested. Each of the features above probably has a bug/caveat, as well.

    I'd like to find a home for the thing, even if HL2DM is as far as it gets.
     
  12. spm1138

    spm1138 Irony Is

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    Ah geez. Don't go saying something like that in a thread about Sentry's future ;)

    It's true of course, but I really didn't need reminding in this context :(

    The XBox game is very arcadey. They're going to have to do some significant work to make it into anything like what it sounds like you're expecting.

    The thing about going to R63 from Raven Shield was that a lot of what they did was taking stuff out.

    This time around they're looking at putting a whole bunch of stuff back in.

    I don't think they've even released a coherent list of changes as yet (vs. GRAW where they've pretty much spelled out exactly what they're doing at the PC communities request).

    Wouldn't be altogether surprised if it went the way of PC GR2 tbh.

    Well that's some comfort at least.
     
  13. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    Well, I expected it. That or years of waiting. Personally, I think if some people want to get together to try to further INF, then try and port it AS IS to UT2007. The templates there. So are the calculations. Yeah, the code will have to be changed to agree with the new way things are done, and that will take SOME time and EFFORT. But it sure would be nice to see it on a new engine.

    Man, that sucks.
     
  14. LifesBane(4Corners)

    LifesBane(4Corners) Active Member

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    You guys should all pop back in and play some Unreal 1 INF. I jumped on last night and there were still a few servers up, with clan matches still going on and the works ;)
     
  15. Death Touch

    Death Touch New Member

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    Folks, (please don't flame me, it's a sincere question) is there ANY possibility of just going over to the UT2004 Engine? A lot can be done with that game. Maybe not EVERYTHING, but certainly movement, weapons, maps especially, skins, and CQB oriented gameplay.
    I'm sure at least SOMETHING Infiltrationesque can be made with the game. I know you guys have considered it a no go, but hell, at least something can be done with it to show for all the years you've put into it.
    Seriously, folks. Don't get upsdet at me, just reconsider the option. Think about it. Just a little.

    Who knows? There IS plenty of potential still left in UT2004.
     
  16. Nukeproof

    Nukeproof n1

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    Psychomorph, you are contradicting yourself. Weren't you the one, who requested at least one feature / day? INF 2.9 is the most feature & contend rich, bug free mod that I know of (especially when you compare among non-retail projects).

    The biggest glitch: it runs on an engine that most people assosiate with dinosaurs, which is no longer able to attract new players in the same amount as old ones are leaving.

    I always had difficulties to imagine, how something with 3 guns and 3 maps would make the active players wanne move and bring in those huge amounts of new ones everybody was refering to - but I hoped that somehow the thing would gain momentum by itself... like re-used content of IMT weapons, 'borrowed' maps from other mods etc.

    I just realised that I was 'dreaming' just like everybody else around here... :(
     
  17. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    INF2.9 has not what needs me to like it more:
    - A slightly newer engine (just slightly).
    - A shouldered position.
    - Steady (not extremely freeaiming) and bigger sights to aim and more correct ones.
    - A slightly more adapting movement (Slow/Fast Walk with steady weapon and Jog as the faster movement).
    - Other crouching+moving behavior.
    - Binocular reflex sights (sorry but everything else about those sights makes no damn sense to me).
    - Updated Weaponmodels and Skins.


    Thats about it. I can't any longer stand INF's aimed weapon swaying around and aiming with 'micro sights'. It was good many years ago, but I got fed up with this allready before version 2.9.
    And I never really cry about the engine and still am amazed by the leveldesign in INF (EAS maps), but the old engine is just enough.
    Enough is enough, sort of.

    The single thing that got me playing INF the last time was only the ability to play seriously with tactics and so, but once this momentum is gone during play, it makes me wanna to quit instantly (what I often do).

    INF2.9 is sort of dead to me, not community wise, but only content/concept/gameing wise.

    Don't know what to say more.
     
  18. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Save the engine, those are minor changes to most people. We won't attract 100+ people because we have a new shouldered mode.

    The UT engine annoys me greatly - even with my most recent upgrades, I end up with <20fps on some maps... unplayable on others. I run UT2k4/HL2 at double that, easily.

    Finding out what players really want is difficult. Giving them what they want is even harder sometimes.
     
  19. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Thats true, but the players want realism. What is realism when speaking about weapon handling and movement?
    1. See real life, soldier, SWAT, (me), all hold the weapon at the shoulder, thats real life, I want it... where's the problem?
    2. See real life, soldiers, SWAT, (me), all use the lowready weapon position, thats real life, I want it... where's the problem?
    3. See real life, soldiers, SWAT, (me, if trying), all walk slow(normal kind of)/fast to control the weapon and jog (SWAT rather a normal run) to move faster, that's real life, I want it... where's the problem?

    4. Byside this I named the injury system an important thing in the game. Anybody who played 'Sum of all Fears' know what I talk about. SoF has an awesome injury system; When you get shot, the view shakes/recoils a milisecond, you get a shock where the view sways to the side, like you loose your stance steadyness, you can't use the weapon, can barely move, if lucky you can get you behind a wall right next to you. Once the shock is over (about 3 seconds, or more) you can move again but slower, the aim is bad and so on. SoF only doesn't support falling where you can stand up (falling means you're dead).
    I think this thing is about beeing feasable and would solve many problems occuring in INF.

    5. The leaning with one key you talked about in this forum is a good thing.

    6. Resting a gun on something is more complicated, but to me this feature is lower ranked, than the features above (1-5).

    Finding a gamemode is rather difficult, since INF has not predefined settings (yet) like Insurgency. Well chosoe something.


    I think point 1 - 5 are feasable coding wise (don't beat me if I´m to wrong, just an amateur guess).
    What I really fear is when all this is rather poor made on a visual point of view (which I hate the most). The weapon models have to be not to bad/wrong/poor, the skins are really the thing that makes a weapon photorealistic looking (look at Red Orchestra and maybe Insurgency too, awesome pice of skinning, SAS mod for UT2004 is good too and SWAT4 is nice).
    The player model should look beliveable and the MOST important thing to me; the movement animations should be 'high standart'.

    Since you play with the eyes (and ears) it is most important to me that the game is visually 'as-good-as-possible'. Weapons positions on the screen, weapon models-skins-animations, player models-skins-animation, sounds, muzzle flash and smoke effects.
    All this is what I (personally) need/require/desire for a satisfactional game.

    I think that when you see point 1-5, than the artwork and animatiung is the core of effort (of course I know the real core of modding is always the coding).


    When it is about the level design, the INF level designer are upper class and since random level geometry seems to be feasable (sort of) it would be a thing to consider.



    The game have just to work (usable weapon positions, useful movement, a good injury system (!), nice looks (!) and a game mode).

    Yes, all this takes time to make and with Sentry Studios forever :)p), but I doubt this is to much to be feasable/possible.


    Don't misunderstand me, I don't question your decisions, but you ask what we want and I tell you that we want what you see in real life.
    All the tinny bid of effects, like sun blinding, eyes adapting in the dark, this and that, all that is up for the future, but right now we want something that works and is close to reality (visual/working wise), is INF's weapon handling close to reality? Freeaim and weapon control yes, the rest absolutely not.
     
  20. ant75

    ant75 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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    As hotdog said, i think everyone knew deep down that this was coming to us. We just wouldn't let the last remainings of hope go. Let's be honnest, this is probably the end of infiltration as well as of SS : a team without a project is nothing but a bunch of names on a webpage. People who really wanna do something will move to other projects, while the others will probably get burried under RL obligations. Sorry for being so pessimistic, but it's just such a huge blow that i don't wanna have faith anymore. Time to move on i guess, and keep playing 2.9 as long as it's alive of course.
    Just :( .
     

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