Yurch's antics reach a new level!

[spm1138]

Argh. I did have a big long carefully thought out reply but the Piece Of Sh t forum software just lost it for me. Hurrah.

Short Version:

Are you saying that were all happy playing 2.9 now and therefore would have been happy playing a version of RA also?

No.

Yurches Way <> Sentry's Way

edit
Instaposted. No wonder my login timed out

 

[NTKB]

Although I hope we will have a while before RAv3 starts (like, maybe an ICLR season or so, I dunno) there's no harm in commentating.


1) I dislike the scope freeaim system in general, I find it too easy to maintain a sense of view through frequent motions (think jogging ACOG). It looks like a zoomed in view with a cutout being moved around.
2) Perhaps. Most of my concern is with the quick ability to rapidly change jogging directions, the rest isn't too much a concern. Leading or following a target isn't a problem until you can't guess which direction he is going intutively, which is when it then becomes an issue. Slowing down the process of going up and down stairs/ladders is something that perhaps can be considered in concurrance of this.
3) I don't find it too much a problem. Consider it a low shouldered maybe. When have you lost a CQB fight to a hipped minimi?
4) Yes, the 5.7mm P90 ammunition is horribly inaccurate IRL. I also doubt the subsonic munition's actual capabilty to penetrate armor at range. A surpressed FAMAS may follow in the same catagory if it's supposed to be using subsonic ammo.
5) In order to kill with leg wounds you need to hit multiple times with most weapons as it stands. Considering the hitbox covers much more surface area than it should over the legs, something is off with the current system. Reducing damage may not be the best approach however.
6) Nades are quite overpowered as they stand. How they work graphically is a matter of taste/performance.
7) Same as 6.
8) A given. It'd be nice to recalibrate the HK69 ladder to match it.
9) Not sure what this accomplishes. Do you mean skewing the shot that was taken?
10) It is a full length shotgun. Don't really consider it a problem. Use 'hip' mode if it's colliding and you need to be that close.
11) Sight misalignment is something that needs to be looked at and thought about carefully, the old system I don't consider good enough anymore.
12) This was in RAv2, and I rather liked it as a subtle effect on firing.
13) This can be tied into the old 'misalignment' methods, and it looks/works quite well this way.

All in all though, only about 8 of these topics should be involving RAv3 (keep the mutator to playerclass/Aim-oriented subjects). I'd like to, this time around, keep many mutators seperate from each other rather than a one-mutator fixall. Later, if it's really required, we can combine them under a standard I guess.

IE we can have a ballistic mutator that changes damages/accuracy, grenade mutators that change the explosions, loadout mutators to enforce restrictions, ect.

We DO owe 2.9 at least some time before we begin mutating on this large a scale. Keep in mind this will be an extremely controversial topic for some people, and visibly dividing the community this early will not foster any love.

1>Agreed. I miss the old RAv2 scopes.
2>Agreed. Ive seen some pretty quick strafing by some ppl and ive been popped almost instantly by ppl who knew enemys would most likely be in that choke point then sweep right back to cover.
3>yah minimi hipped really only works well in very CQB. And then just about any weapon with some proper skill knowledge can be used well in that instance.
4>Agreed. P90 should be fixed. Although i dont see too many P90 whores online which is ok I guess. Wheres the woffen when you need him?
5>Agreed. Leg damage is fine. Would be nice if perhaps you could be knocked to a crouch with a few hits and have to get up slowly from that one crouch.
6>I like the nade effects IMO, for funfactor reasons. Nades seem UNDERpowered to me now..
7>No comment.
8>No comment.
9>Agreed. Its also much to easy to jump onto a ledge and pop somone in the street or alley in ACityBlock.
10>No comment.
11>Well ill miss you old school sight misalignment.
12>No comment.
13>Must agree with KW here. Would be more realistic and more random like in real life overall. Just like there isnt a perfect circle that man can create, no one should have perfect aim.

*adding point 14> M16 hipped should be closer to body. Like Duke coded it in RAv2 update.

Now i do think we should wait awhile before worrying about RAv3 or whatever Yurch decides to name it. Why not code more guns? EVERYONE in the community will use that no doubt

I think its right also that RAv2 expanded the community not devided it. In fact, now that I look back at it and look at the times now, as we get more players we could use more types of mutators cause more servers would be available to play on different game types. I love how i can now just enter a server and start playing at any time of the day. Its great!

But I must agree in the end we need a real aim again. Maybe in mutator forms like Beppo hinted. But lets not start disrespecting Beppos work. His dream was 2.90. He toiled and sweated and worked with people around the globe to accomplish what we all love now.

 

[monkey_hanger]

I don't think any version of RA would have been adopted by the team (and I wouldn't ever expect them to). 2.9, while similar in some aspects, still is the team's take on doing things, not mine.

thats not wot i was getting at. It was the implication that to add feature's similar to Ra into regular inf at that time. That imho, would have pretty much cut off half the community. I wasnt saying i thought Sentry would ask to "borrow" certain parts of your package.

"Yurches Way <> Sentry's Way" Well 2.9 turned out pretty close(ish) considering the polar mentality then.

 

[Beppo]

... "Yurches Way <> Sentry's Way" Well 2.9 turned out pretty close(ish) considering the polar mentality then.

hehe, well we stated pretty often that 2.86 wasn't meant to get out the way it went then. It was planned a 'bit' differently and so the first things we changed for 2.87 / 2.9 was the movement speeds. We never adopted things from RA directly but we listened to yurch and other community members of course.

But as yurch already said...

... 2.9, while similar in some aspects, still is the team's take on doing things, not mine.

And to adding features aso like TOAD said... the team had to stop itself (and many times me) to not get into feature creep and needing longer and longer. We had months of 'only' fixing and fine tuning the final things. Only a few new features made it into the game during the last months. So there were a lot of ideas within the team to improve this or that or even to allow totally new things. But at one point (well actually several ones) we had to say 'stop'. Else you all would still wait for 2.9 to be released for sure...
So you can now start where we were forced to stop our development for this version. This gives you a big advantage after all.

Thanks for the calm words, the respect shown aso but I would like to see this respect from more folks here that seem to live to biatch sometimes and do not honour the thousands of hours that such a project needed to be made. So, it is no disrespect or anything that I show towards you guys in general or something alike... it is just the 'easy' style some of you claim to know everything better or what would make the game soo much better for all out there. Personal opinions many times based on facts that aren't real facts at all or have to proof that they can work in a game first before they can be named the one and only way things should be done. I guess I can go on for hours here but I hope my points are already clear now.

So, do whatever you want but put away the childish and teacher-ish stuff you present here on our forum and face us with some respect after all so we will do this too.

 

[Kaoh]

I understand what your saying Beppo, but someone modding a game is ALWAYS a compliment, sure it is indeed a way of saying they felt you didnt finish something or made something in way they dont want to. But the fact that they are willing to spednd time on it and mod it to their likings also means that your work brings them so close to their perfect game that they feel that it is possible to make some tweaks here and there and reach the game they want.
There will always be the difference of opinion and there will always be that middle road, the compromise, and thus a game would never be the game I want it to be, not even my own game is becoming that. but when you reach it so close that people do feel it is just that or with a few tweaks it will be, thats a compliment.

Inf is the game that opened my eyes to see that making your own game is possible, and thus it will always be one of my old time favorite GAMES. And the fact that I still havent had time to really play 2.9 does not take that away.

For me Yurch did a good thing, inf got me hooked for the first couple of months of playing and RA took it further for a long time after. What I have seen 2.9 has the power to keep me hooked for at least a good year or maybey two, but also expecting (basicly demanding ) you guys to now focus fully on porting 2.9 to ut2003 I would love Yurch to make enhancements even more.

Hey without inf ra would never have seen the light of day.

 

[Beppo]

sure Kaoh, and thanks ... appreciated...

But some here still have to learn how to deal with someone with respect even if the two sides would have or do have totally different point of views and opinions. So some discussions here aren't worth the word discussion at all and the sides banging their heads together do not really show respect for the other side too often. So the way I and others react on such behaviour is not always 100% correct then too cause we haven't started to piss in someones cornflakes in the first place. But to now start discussions about who aimed for the other sides froot loops first would only end up messy too. So no need to start a discussion about this here now.

Speaking about something you don't like or want to see changed can be done using several ways of course... but I would highly appreciate it if this would be done with some more respect shown from time to time. We aren't 10 year olds here or even smaller children playing in the sand box and stealing the other sides toys. But sometimes it ends up this way and some forgot their brains outside or forgot to turn them on in the first place.

Sorry for this little rant here... going a bit OT.

Beppo

 

[Goid]

I like what your trying to do with the mutator but it doesnt quite feel right IMO...

My idea is to make it so that (if possible with UT) to have the mouse sensitivity decrease the longer you aim whilst standing still (not walking or running), so that when you bring up the scope its real shakey but you settle down and keep the gun steady in effect so that you have to settle down to take a good shot

I think that would feel much more natural and might even improve gameplay (from an abuse of ACOGs point of view)

-Speak

Agreed, that would be better than this mutator or the default behavior.

The move-bob is too pronounced. Not everyone is the same nor are they affected the same way by fatigue, so no system will be perfect, but the current movement through the scope is not unrealistic.

I think UT game engine limits are the problem here. In the future we'll get an engine that will be a grognard's dream come true. Of course, what the INF team has done so far is amazing, so maybe this will be possible.

I also think the gun is too far away when using iron site mode. Some of the gun
models obstruct your view a great deal more than they do in real life because you are so far back from the rear sight.

I would like to see a change to bring the rear sights closer. Not on pistols, just some of the rifles.

 

[NTKB]

Is it possible to necro thread yurchs thread? This thread is immortal and I declare it be stickied for at least nostaligias sake.

 

[})FA|Snake]

Personally i've gotten an idea for iron sights misalignment after playing with my air rifle in the backyard for a while thinking about it.

The rear sights always stay centered in the screen, when you move the mouse it moves the front sights in the regular free aim area. Now when you depress the sec. fire button like if you are using breathing control it moves the center of your view to be centered on the front sight, aligning the rear sight with the front. now you can hold down the breath control in order to keep the sights aligned perfectly but doing so would offer some penelty to mobility (this part i didn't quite work out)

As far as Scope freeaim goes, it should be kept, but a second, slightly larger black sprite should be imposed over the existing black scope sprite, that way if the scope moves more then slightly away from the center it you'll start to lose vision through it, like a real scope would if you didn't have proper eye relief.

In addition there should be a fairly large stability bonus to having the weapon in the center of your screen, IRL the key to taking a highly accurate shot is setting your natural point of aim on a target. This is both because you are more steady that way, and because recoil causes your muscles to tense, pulling the gun toward your natural point of aim and that can effect your shot coming out of the barrel
[edit: forgot something]

 

[gal-z]

Just a note about the trijicon (now that I have 1), is that your fov should let you see a bit around the scope. Your eye should be 3.9cm away from the scope, which means it doesn't block your entire fov, although it does block a big part of it.

 

[spm1138]

Often been suggested, but not technically possible

 

[NTKB]

Why not? From what I understand the black part is a "sheet" covering the screen, if it could be snipped away some around the outside it could be done... ?

 

[Crowze]

Uh, isn't what snake's suggesting already implemented (to an extent)? The scope view does 'deform'. Also, about the misalignment, that would be far too over the top. What yurch did with RAv2, I like.

NT, I believe spm was referring to gal-z's suggestion. It is possible, but the peformance hit in this old engine is nasty.

 

[gal-z]

I guess it would be something to consider for 3.0? ;0

 

[cracwhore]

The only major gripe I have about the official 2.9 release is the "flak nade". I think the effect that Yurch added to it, as well as the sounds and different nade types has made 2.9 20% better already. Nades just feel real finally. I remember reading somewhere about the black smoke, and how you've grown fond of it (I have too). But the ILCR won't use your mutator because of this black smoke. Are there any plans to change this or at least make an ILCR specific nade mutator? Or maybe we could just tell them to F themselves and start an unofficial league of our own? Personally, I think what the GD server has running now provides the most fun for INF. So could you change the smoke to kind of a greyish "dust" color? Or ask them exactly what it is that they want you to change? It's just almost impossible for me to go back to the "standard nade" after using those. Please cut a deal with these mobsters Yurch. Your mutie is awesome

Beppo: Not sure if it's a "mutator conflict", shouldn't be. But I've seen the impossible done in 2.9. A GD member wagered me that the IIIa vest could take a shotgun blast point blank. It never saved my life, so I said "I doubt that", sure enough, it did. After this, he said "kill me". I held the supressed Mk23 to his head (no helmet, just face) fired, and watched as he stood there and chewed on my bullet. We both laughed and I said, "ok, that was strange..." and shot again. TWICE to the head with the Mk23 and he still lived! So all I can ask you is, "WTF?" Not blaming you or flaming you, just wondering if you've ever seen something like that. I wet myself from laughing, but later on, I felt cheated and traded in my SOCOM for the M9
Just to make it clear, it was point blank, he had no helmet/hat/magical wig or anything. Just a human skull. And he lived through one shotgun blast to the chest and two .45acp rounds to the forehead.

 

[NTKB]

That just proves what ive known all along.... your aim sucks!

Question: Just who the hell is the ICLR? Do these bastages even forum here or play INF? Or are they some mafioso group like ASscrac claims?

 

[spm1138]

I thought realaimers were the mafioso group?

 

[Crowze]

Question: Just who the hell is the ICLR? Do these bastages even forum here or play INF? Or are they some mafioso group like ASscrac claims?

Try http://www.ilcr.org/index.php?module=pnEmployee&func=main - just noticed, I'm not on the list .

 

[ecale3]

Shottie to the Chest on IIIa is understandable, the vest will stop it. But the suppressed Mk23 is way underpowered. I've shot people who's only headgear was a rag and had them take three or more rounds to the head before they realized i was there and started moving!

 

[Beppo]

To the head shots... please make sure that you do not simply aim a bit too low...

As you should know, collision detection within UT is not 100% correct due to the coke can collision cylinder used that is not in any way checking the currently played animations. So a headshot is a calculated hit that highly depend on the players animation currently playing... cause the calculation doesn't check for each and every animframe where the head may be... it just uses a simplified 'there should be the head'. In the case of wearing an armour vest the head region that actually counts as headshot is in most animations around the eyes or just above them. So always aim for the forehead instead of the mouth region cause else you will only hit the collision area of the armour vests.
This is calculated stuff slicing parts out of a coke can... this system cannot be highly accurate due to its base design unfortunately.