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Request to open CTF-Dagnys-Tubes-Of-Spam for comment

Discussion in 'Nali City' started by WHIPperSNAPper, Aug 26, 2003.

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  1. Bot_40

    Bot_40 Go in drains

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    Ya, he's completly missed the point.
    I don't currently give a **** whether you rate this map on looks or gameplay. It has neither.

    Dagny, once again, nobody could care less if you like the texturing in your map. Everyone else seems to be blinded by it's ugliness :con:
     
  2. FreakinMeany

    FreakinMeany Booga booga boo!

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    Call me a silly ninny, but does anyone else find it amusing that comments for the map are disabled, but there's a non-linked link from the map's page to this thread for commenting on the map? :rolleyes:

    :y5:
     
  3. Bot_40

    Bot_40 Go in drains

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    Hourences says!

     
  4. Gundato

    Gundato Wangosaurus Rex

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    i officially love this thread :D

    here is a map i whipped together a few days ago in most likely teh same amount of time you spent (you made custom textures, i spent time making the letters with the 2d shape editor :D). This map has very spammy gameplay, but that does not make it good (well, in Excessive Overkill it is, but that is not the point)

    http://www.fileplanet.com/files/120000/129713.shtml

    (ignore teh UT2k3 thing, fileplanet just sucks)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2003
  5. |ChAoS|Merlin

    |ChAoS|Merlin New Member

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    I thought that was what this was all about, the fact that someone who may like the map cant even comment on Nalicity3 site and maybe increase the overall score alittle.

    From the SS I saw based on an amature level, which is what most maps submitted to Nali are, the map is more than a 2, based on a pro level ok maybe its not even that, but dont forget all that most of the mappers out there are amatures, making maps for fun not money. try to be more objective and understanding of the fact that not everyone has countless hours to read up on how to use Ued properly, let alone spent the time needed to make a pro level map.

    If I carved a statue 1/2 as good as Michel Angelos David, but used a pocket knife to do it, would you still call it crap.

    Question: Is Nalicity3 a place for Amature mappers to showcase maps and be judge fairly on that basis? or is it a showcase for wanna be pro mappers just waiting for a company to call and offer a 6 figure salary too.

    My point, as a pro level map its a 1 or 2, but done by an amature I'd say it should be much higher, I have seen some really awful maps out there that would make this one almost look great.
     
  6. Hourences

    Hourences New Member

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    omg i can post replies again !

    did you actually read this
    "lets put it differently shall we, instead of comparing to ctf coret, a professional map, lets compare it to some great community ctf maps, custom maps by unpayed amateurs, exactly like you
    oh sh1t, they are even better as coret, damn now the rating scale is going to be affected and you only score a 0.25/10 now, sorry"
    merlin ?
    the pro maps are 3 years old, they are old, the latest created top user maps offer much more, so lets just compare everything to those latest top custom maps then
    so whats your point now ? amateur map vs amateur map comparisation

    and can i pls get an answer on
    "the only people who say that you dont need graphics or that leet gameplay is running around in mini tubes seem to be people who have barely any experience with making games themself, and know absolutely nothing about the technical side, and related things,
    yet they really think they are damn right, they think they are more right then all those pro's, they know more then for example cliffyb, etc etc,
    what does this say about those people ? who do you think knows most, has most experience, and thus is most likely to have it correct ? who makes your games ? who creates your gameplay ?
    your honestly arent going to say you know more then all those people do you ? then why do you think you are so terrrible right and they arent ?"
    that ?
    why is it that none of you people can answer this ?
     
  7. Sarevok

    Sarevok ...

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    Wtf?!?!?!?!?
     
  8. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    ROFL! Many of those textures were scaled up to 2.0, so it was a wee bit more complicated than just selecting the entire brush and adding textures willy nilly. I panned through them in both directions to find alignments I liked and I looked at lots of textures. Some of those tubes don't have flat ends either--some are cut at angles (to make the bends), which means that many of those slat-surfaces are not of equal length. You honestly believe that it was as simple as just selecting the entire brush and then selecting textures and voila--that's it?
     
  9. Bot_40

    Bot_40 Go in drains

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    Let me inform you that your argument is completly wrong based on a single fact:

    Amatur maps are often actually a LOT better than pro maps

    ...so basicly, your entire post makes no sense whatsoever.
    I don't understand how you can be saying how the UT2k3 maps have no gameplay in one post, then in the very next post you try to imply that pro maps are somehow infinitely better than 3rd party maps. I think you'd better make up your mind what the hell you are arguing about before you start flaming around :con:
     
  10. Hourences

    Hourences New Member

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    about your complex mapping and tex pls read :

    http://forums.beyondunreal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65469

    if you think your brush work or floorplan is anywhere near complex then plsssssssssss answer me why your map compared to ctf coret looks like 5 minutes work ? coret is 3 years old ffs, if you would compare it to newer map it would be even more complex
    while yours is made out of a very limited amount of brushes, all default shapes, just cubes cylinders etc who are rotated
    HOW the fu<k do you call that complexicity ?
    i made maps with about 6000 brushes, your map has 50 at max, how the hell do you call that complex at all ?

    thats 50 to 6000, WHERE was your complexity again ?

    http://forums.beyondunreal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65468
    the texture alignment was WHERE exactly in that tube ? they all point in the same direction=default alignment, or else extremel sucky self made alignment
     
  11. Bot_40

    Bot_40 Go in drains

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    Let me just check...yes...it takes exactly 5 clicks to scale a surface up once you selected it
    Right click -> Properties -> Alignment -> Select 2 -> Apply
    Yes sorry, that really is a complicated process :con:

    OK, the map must really be worth 8/10. It obviously takes 1-2 months to select a decent texture (which even then you failed to do)

    But that makes **** all difference since you didn't bother trying to line the textures up at the end of the tunnel anyways (see pic) :con:

    No, I believe you, I really do. I'm sure it takes months to get a really refined look like that.
     

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  12. Bot_40

    Bot_40 Go in drains

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    Ya, gotta love that beutiful "never seen before" look :tup:
     

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  13. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    You would have to be a retard (or a more than willing believer) to think I spent 8 hours a day for 6 months straight working on the map. In the readme I said it took 6 months to build. Maybe I should have said I built it over a 6 month period. I put a nice amount of work into it, but probably no more than 100 hours. A couple hours here, a couple hours there, often going weeks without touching it. (Running a clan and getting hooked on organized pick-up-game matches can suck up a lot of time.)

    My point wasn't that the textures in the tube are the work of an experienced professional. My point was that Mr. Prophet is clearly wrong to say that the tube textures did not require effort and that as a result his credibility and objectivity are at issue and that it's difficult to take him seriously.

    Aside from providing an amusing look into the sociology of supposed semi-pro UT mappers, the only thing this thread has accomplished is to reconfirm my pre-existing belief that Tubes Of Spam is not a professionally-done map. I still think it's a good amatuer map and I still don't understand what people's beef is with the textures in the tubes; I think they look great.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2003
  14. Hourences

    Hourences New Member

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    your excuse sounds simple and cheap, and is pretty irrelevant, its about the fact that your tex alignment suck terrible, like you can clearly see in the pics

    what you said was that your aligned the tex carefully, and put a great deal of time and work in it, regardless if this is 6 hours a day or whatever, but you did say that
    fact is that it looks completely unaligned, and looks absolutely terrible
    just admit it, or come up with more cool excuses so we can have a laugh
     
  15. darth_weasel

    darth_weasel I won

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    100 hours? i just feel sad now :/ what a waste of life
     
  16. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    Unlike idiot savants and the amazing Darth Weasel, not everyone can finish their second quality amatuer map in under 20 hours. I know I spent at least 30 hours learning how to do the bot pathing, testing, and refining it. And of course, I didn't build the map straight up knowing exactly how I wanted it to be; I changed and rebuilt various portions of it a couple times. (The tough part about mapping isn't the building; it's the artistic aspects.)

    I'm hoping my obviously pecuniary intellect will allow me to eventually reach some understanding of what exactly people are objecting to about the tube texture alignments. Maybe they aren't perfect, but they are far from putrid. I'm tempted to conclude that several of the participants in this thread are just pretending that tube textures are god-awful for mutual back patting and dogmatic reasons.

    I hope I get to be the one to submit post 100.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2003
  17. darth_weasel

    darth_weasel I won

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    okay to put joking aside for a moment and answer the questioning of prophets review, you said that it wasnt objective and the reason the tubes slants arent textured in the normal way and that the ends arent trimmed off at the end of the texture is thats what you were aiming for... a reviewer cannot review by what a mapper was aiming for, or a subtracted cube would get 10 if thats what the mapper meant. its just silly.a map has to be reviewed on opinion and this review wasnt just prophets opinion but 95% of peoples, aa you can see from the comments. you cant expect a good review because the map is good to you and a small handful of others. is your idea of an "objective review" a review that rates what you done compared to what you were trying to do?
     
  18. Zarkazm

    Zarkazm <img src="http://forums.beyondunreal.com/images/sm

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    Well, first I ought to point out how badly the "professional" comment is. What Bot failed to tell you is that the tube he compares yours to in his post above, the one that while simple looks just awfully good compared to yours, was made by him just for this comparison. He is not a pro, and he is trying to show you what "aligned textures" are.

    As for the "effort" comment - I know from experience that sometimes alot of effort can result in nothing but waste.
    The Prophet was right - the textures on the tube don't look aligned, they look slapped on by a noob. Only sometimes it may take a noob ages just to fail doing something properly.
    But sometimes it can take a noob ages just to fail doing a job properly. Which is what happened here. No matter how much effort you invested, the result it total failure. Maybe you did it "on purpose" making yourself believe it looks interesting and original. It does, however, look bad.

    I am sorry. But either you need to change your mapping style completely or give up. The question is if you are actually capable of changing your style and make good map or if you simply cannot do better. Which would be sad for you, but we all must admit defeat sometimes.
     
  19. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    "95%" of what of which people? 95% of professional and semi-professional mappers who don't like spammy maps and who have been offended by promotional comments and a flame war? A great many of the regular UT players who played the map online thought it was a fun map.

    My idea of an objective review is one that compares the map in question to all other existing UT CTF maps (including all the amatuer maps) and rates them either on a 10% per point (1-10) grade scale (or an 11% per point 9 point scale) or a Gaussian distribution and that doesn't knock a map down merely because the reviewer personally despises spam, was incensed by the mapper's promotion of his work, or because the texturing was not professional or didn't meet professional conventions. I regard Prophet's review as a pure joke; it even carries an air of mocking cynicism to it and I'm pretty certain it was intended to retaliate for his perception of the author's having hubris.
     
  20. darth_weasel

    darth_weasel I won

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    we arent comparing your map to professional maps, the majority of ametur maps have better looks and gameplay, hence why you score way below average. also, since when did "spammy" cease to be a derogatory term? its a bad thing. i could say "there is a section of players that enjoy default cubes so the fact you gave it 2 is unobjective". c'mon, that's nonsense.
     
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