Request to open CTF-Dagnys-Tubes-Of-Spam for comment

[Bot_40]

Ya, he's completly missed the point.
I don't currently give a **** whether you rate this map on looks or gameplay. It has neither.

Dagny, once again, nobody could care less if you like the texturing in your map. Everyone else seems to be blinded by it's ugliness

 

[FreakinMeany]

Call me a silly ninny, but does anyone else find it amusing that comments for the map are disabled, but there's a non-linked link from the map's page to this thread for commenting on the map?

 

[Bot_40]

Hourences says!

omg bu is ****ed, i deleted my post in the hope i could post my editted version again
like not, php error

All I did was use one brush builder? No effort went into the map? No effort was put into choosing and aligning textures (see the tubes)? No effort went into the item placement? No effort went into the map's design and layout? It's little more than one great big box? The brush cutter wasn't used? The bot pathing wasn't built, tested, refined, tested, and refined again? Zones and location ID tags weren't added and HOMs fixed?

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65469

if you think your brush work or floorplan is anywhere near complex then plsssssssssss answer me why your map compared to ctf coret looks like 5 minutes work ? coret is 3 years old ffs, if you would compare it to newer map it would be even more complex
while yours is made out of a very limited amount of brushes, all default shapes, just cubes cylinders etc who are rotated
HOW the fu<k do you call that complexicity ?
i made maps with about 6000 brushes, your map has 50 at max, how the hell do you call that complex at all ?

What I find amusing about this thread isn't the debate over the map's quality, but rather the amount of almost religious ire and passion that it has stirred up. It's almost like I suggested that Tubes Of Spam was comparable to professionally-made maps, then reached out and stroked people's scrotums. I find it laughable that certain posters have their sensitivity meters turned up so high and that some supposed adults have degenerated into little children on a playground slinging mud, delivering insults, unable to carry out an adult conversation.

we are absolutely 100 procent calm, not under any way frustrated, stressed, or mentally damaged

I find it laughable how little brain certain posters got left

your tex are 100 procent misaligned btw, lacking trim, horrible choice in color composition, bad theme, etc
they are bad

and I still dont see the 50% 50% thing, come on dudes be real for once in your life, whats a better map to play Codex if it was all 1 brick texture, or Morbias with flashing lights and go-go dancers stripping for you. We are basing our judgements on actually playing UT are'nt we?
{/QUOTE]
played over 250 clanwars, 100000s hour of online play
morbias is terrible
if codex was all 1 brick i couldnt see well where i was walking
and i am real, unfortunally for you

My magical formula is something like this.

Gameplay and tactical layout = 80%

Sounds and music = 10%

BS decoration = 10%

Most great UT players dont even have the music on, and could care less about the "LOOKS" of any map.

From most of the people I have met I get the same reply about UT2k3, and that is it looks cool but all the detailing in the maps take away from gameplay and can give you a major headache if you play to long.

Can someone make a map that starts with game playability and layout and not a F*****G theme! Or better yet how bout this for a theme, a fighting area made for UT deathmatch competitions LOL.

your proposed theme sux terrible

you first start with a style and idea you want to do, not anything else

and can you please read what we said in the previous replies, we are repeating ourself here
so again :

the only people who say that you dont need graphics or that leet gameplay is running around in mini tubes seem to be people who have barely any experience with making games themself, and know absolutely nothing about the technical side, and related things,
yet they really think they are damn right, they think they are more right then all those pro's, they know more then for example cliffyb, etc etc,
what does this say about those people ? who do you think knows most, has most experience, and thus is most likely to have it correct ? who makes your games ? who creates your gameplay ?
your honestly arent going to say you know more then all those people do you ? then why do you think you are so terrrible right and they arent ?

pls answer, if you can
pls make me a game, that sells a few million with your magical 80 % scheme

also, if people dont know what skins they use they are obvious noobs, im starting to doubt with what kind of people you play ut and how "leet" your in it
makes me think you got absolutely no idea about gameplay

Check out the newer reviewers, most give constructive critisism of maps, not "The Prophet" tho all he ever does is slam maps.

there is nothing possitive to say about it, duh theres barely any constructive critism
secondly, with people who think their map owns so much its useless to give constructive critism, whatever you say theyll deny it
deck sux terrible btw, its not a map, its just a file

They say compare your map to the orignials, Hmmm I'm not sure but I dont think you got paid big bucks for making your map like Cliffy B did.

all maps are being compared to professional maps, its your challenge to do better, like plenty of people did in the community, they suceeded, and you can too if you stop whinning, put your ego down, and go practice some more
lets put it differently shall we, instead of comparing to ctf coret, a professional map, lets compare it to some great community ctf maps, custom maps by unpayed amateurs, exactly like you
oh sh1t, they are even better as coret, damn now the rating scale is going to be affected and you only score a 0.25/10 now, sorry

To all the spam haters out there I'd like to say this, Are you going to cry "no fair you suck" when a hand grenade is throw into your fox hole? If you dont like reg weps then play insta or sniper match and STFU already.

this is a game, not a war, if you it logically to compare games and amusement with terrible wars you got a mental problem


and comment thing on the site if for commenting amap, while the forum is for discussing, like we are doing now, it would have been a flame war in the tiny commentfields, forum is better for that

 

[Gundato]

i officially love this thread

here is a map i whipped together a few days ago in most likely teh same amount of time you spent (you made custom textures, i spent time making the letters with the 2d shape editor ). This map has very spammy gameplay, but that does not make it good (well, in Excessive Overkill it is, but that is not the point)

http://www.fileplanet.com/files/120000/129713.shtml

(ignore teh UT2k3 thing, fileplanet just sucks)

 

[|ChAoS|Merlin]

I thought that was what this was all about, the fact that someone who may like the map cant even comment on Nalicity3 site and maybe increase the overall score alittle.

From the SS I saw based on an amature level, which is what most maps submitted to Nali are, the map is more than a 2, based on a pro level ok maybe its not even that, but dont forget all that most of the mappers out there are amatures, making maps for fun not money. try to be more objective and understanding of the fact that not everyone has countless hours to read up on how to use Ued properly, let alone spent the time needed to make a pro level map.

If I carved a statue 1/2 as good as Michel Angelos David, but used a pocket knife to do it, would you still call it crap.

Question: Is Nalicity3 a place for Amature mappers to showcase maps and be judge fairly on that basis? or is it a showcase for wanna be pro mappers just waiting for a company to call and offer a 6 figure salary too.

My point, as a pro level map its a 1 or 2, but done by an amature I'd say it should be much higher, I have seen some really awful maps out there that would make this one almost look great.

 

[Hourences]

omg i can post replies again !

did you actually read this
"lets put it differently shall we, instead of comparing to ctf coret, a professional map, lets compare it to some great community ctf maps, custom maps by unpayed amateurs, exactly like you
oh sh1t, they are even better as coret, damn now the rating scale is going to be affected and you only score a 0.25/10 now, sorry"
merlin ?
the pro maps are 3 years old, they are old, the latest created top user maps offer much more, so lets just compare everything to those latest top custom maps then
so whats your point now ? amateur map vs amateur map comparisation

and can i pls get an answer on
"the only people who say that you dont need graphics or that leet gameplay is running around in mini tubes seem to be people who have barely any experience with making games themself, and know absolutely nothing about the technical side, and related things,
yet they really think they are damn right, they think they are more right then all those pro's, they know more then for example cliffyb, etc etc,
what does this say about those people ? who do you think knows most, has most experience, and thus is most likely to have it correct ? who makes your games ? who creates your gameplay ?
your honestly arent going to say you know more then all those people do you ? then why do you think you are so terrrible right and they arent ?"
that ?
why is it that none of you people can answer this ?

 

[Sarevok]

Wtf?!?!?!?!?

 

[WHIPperSNAPper]

Dagny....give me a break, really. You did not align the tubes, if I decided to go into my sexy ued and subtract a cylinder with 16 sides, the resulting unaligned raw subtraction would be identical to your tubes, and that is the brutal truth.

ROFL! Many of those textures were scaled up to 2.0, so it was a wee bit more complicated than just selecting the entire brush and adding textures willy nilly. I panned through them in both directions to find alignments I liked and I looked at lots of textures. Some of those tubes don't have flat ends either--some are cut at angles (to make the bends), which means that many of those slat-surfaces are not of equal length. You honestly believe that it was as simple as just selecting the entire brush and then selecting textures and voila--that's it?

 

[Bot_40]

From the SS I saw based on an amature level, which is what most maps submitted to Nali are, the map is more than a 2, based on a pro level ok maybe its not even that, but dont forget all that most of the mappers out there are amatures, making maps for fun not money. try to be more objective and understanding of the fact that not everyone has countless hours to read up on how to use Ued properly, let alone spent the time needed to make a pro level map.

Let me inform you that your argument is completly wrong based on a single fact:

Amatur maps are often actually a LOT better than pro maps

...so basicly, your entire post makes no sense whatsoever.
I don't understand how you can be saying how the UT2k3 maps have no gameplay in one post, then in the very next post you try to imply that pro maps are somehow infinitely better than 3rd party maps. I think you'd better make up your mind what the hell you are arguing about before you start flaming around

 

[Hourences]

ROFL! Many of those textures were scaled up to 2.0, so it was a wee bit more complicated than just selecting the entire brush and adding textures willy nilly. I panned through them in both directions to find alignments I liked and I looked at lots of textures. Some of those tubes don't have flat ends either--some are cut at angles (to make the bends), which means that many of those slat-surfaces are not of equal length. You honestly believe that it was as simple as just selecting the entire brush and then selecting textures and voila--that's it?

about your complex mapping and tex pls read :

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65469

if you think your brush work or floorplan is anywhere near complex then plsssssssssss answer me why your map compared to ctf coret looks like 5 minutes work ? coret is 3 years old ffs, if you would compare it to newer map it would be even more complex
while yours is made out of a very limited amount of brushes, all default shapes, just cubes cylinders etc who are rotated
HOW the fu<k do you call that complexicity ?
i made maps with about 6000 brushes, your map has 50 at max, how the hell do you call that complex at all ?

thats 50 to 6000, WHERE was your complexity again ?

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65468
the texture alignment was WHERE exactly in that tube ? they all point in the same direction=default alignment, or else extremel sucky self made alignment

 

[Bot_40]

ROFL! Many of those textures were scaled up to 2.0, so it was a wee bit more complicated than just selecting the entire brush and adding textures willy nilly.

Let me just check...yes...it takes exactly 5 clicks to scale a surface up once you selected it
Right click -> Properties -> Alignment -> Select 2 -> Apply
Yes sorry, that really is a complicated process

I panned through them in both directions to find alignments I liked and I looked at lots of textures.

OK, the map must really be worth 8/10. It obviously takes 1-2 months to select a decent texture (which even then you failed to do)

Some of those tubes don't have flat ends either--some are cut at angles (to make the bends), which means that many of those slat-surfaces are not of equal length.

But that makes **** all difference since you didn't bother trying to line the textures up at the end of the tunnel anyways (see pic)

You honestly believe that it was as simple as just selecting the entire brush and then selecting textures and voila--that's it?

No, I believe you, I really do. I'm sure it takes months to get a really refined look like that.

 

[Bot_40]

Ya, gotta love that beutiful "never seen before" look :tup:

 

[WHIPperSNAPper]

OK, the map must really be worth 8/10. It obviously takes 1-2 months to select a decent texture (which even then you failed to do)

You would have to be a retard (or a more than willing believer) to think I spent 8 hours a day for 6 months straight working on the map. In the readme I said it took 6 months to build. Maybe I should have said I built it over a 6 month period. I put a nice amount of work into it, but probably no more than 100 hours. A couple hours here, a couple hours there, often going weeks without touching it. (Running a clan and getting hooked on organized pick-up-game matches can suck up a lot of time.)

My point wasn't that the textures in the tube are the work of an experienced professional. My point was that Mr. Prophet is clearly wrong to say that the tube textures did not require effort and that as a result his credibility and objectivity are at issue and that it's difficult to take him seriously.

Aside from providing an amusing look into the sociology of supposed semi-pro UT mappers, the only thing this thread has accomplished is to reconfirm my pre-existing belief that Tubes Of Spam is not a professionally-done map. I still think it's a good amatuer map and I still don't understand what people's beef is with the textures in the tubes; I think they look great.

 

[Hourences]

your excuse sounds simple and cheap, and is pretty irrelevant, its about the fact that your tex alignment suck terrible, like you can clearly see in the pics

what you said was that your aligned the tex carefully, and put a great deal of time and work in it, regardless if this is 6 hours a day or whatever, but you did say that
fact is that it looks completely unaligned, and looks absolutely terrible
just admit it, or come up with more cool excuses so we can have a laugh

 

[darth_weasel]

100 hours? i just feel sad now :/ what a waste of life

 

[WHIPperSNAPper]

100 hours? i just feel sad now :/ what a waste of life

Unlike idiot savants and the amazing Darth Weasel, not everyone can finish their second quality amatuer map in under 20 hours. I know I spent at least 30 hours learning how to do the bot pathing, testing, and refining it. And of course, I didn't build the map straight up knowing exactly how I wanted it to be; I changed and rebuilt various portions of it a couple times. (The tough part about mapping isn't the building; it's the artistic aspects.)

I'm hoping my obviously pecuniary intellect will allow me to eventually reach some understanding of what exactly people are objecting to about the tube texture alignments. Maybe they aren't perfect, but they are far from putrid. I'm tempted to conclude that several of the participants in this thread are just pretending that tube textures are god-awful for mutual back patting and dogmatic reasons.

I hope I get to be the one to submit post 100.

 

[darth_weasel]

okay to put joking aside for a moment and answer the questioning of prophets review, you said that it wasnt objective and the reason the tubes slants arent textured in the normal way and that the ends arent trimmed off at the end of the texture is thats what you were aiming for... a reviewer cannot review by what a mapper was aiming for, or a subtracted cube would get 10 if thats what the mapper meant. its just silly.a map has to be reviewed on opinion and this review wasnt just prophets opinion but 95% of peoples, aa you can see from the comments. you cant expect a good review because the map is good to you and a small handful of others. is your idea of an "objective review" a review that rates what you done compared to what you were trying to do?

 

[Zarkazm]

My point wasn't that the textures in the tube are the work of an experienced professional. My point was that Mr. Prophet is clearly wrong to say that the tube textures did not require effort and that as a result his credibility and objectivity are at issue and that it's difficult to take him seriously.

Well, first I ought to point out how badly the "professional" comment is. What Bot failed to tell you is that the tube he compares yours to in his post above, the one that while simple looks just awfully good compared to yours, was made by him just for this comparison. He is not a pro, and he is trying to show you what "aligned textures" are.

As for the "effort" comment - I know from experience that sometimes alot of effort can result in nothing but waste.
The Prophet was right - the textures on the tube don't look aligned, they look slapped on by a noob. Only sometimes it may take a noob ages just to fail doing something properly.
But sometimes it can take a noob ages just to fail doing a job properly. Which is what happened here. No matter how much effort you invested, the result it total failure. Maybe you did it "on purpose" making yourself believe it looks interesting and original. It does, however, look bad.

I am sorry. But either you need to change your mapping style completely or give up. The question is if you are actually capable of changing your style and make good map or if you simply cannot do better. Which would be sad for you, but we all must admit defeat sometimes.

 

[WHIPperSNAPper]

okay to put joking aside for a moment and answer the questioning of prophets review, you said that it wasnt objective and the reason the tubes slants arent textured in the normal way and that the ends arent trimmed off at the end of the texture is thats what you were aiming for... a reviewer cannot review by what a mapper was aiming for, or a subtracted cube would get 10 if thats what the mapper meant. its just silly.a map has to be reviewed on opinion and this review wasnt just prophets opinion but 95% of peoples, aa you can see from the comments. you cant expect a good review because the map is good to you and a small handful of others. is your idea of an "objective review" a review that rates what you done compared to what you were trying to do?

"95%" of what of which people? 95% of professional and semi-professional mappers who don't like spammy maps and who have been offended by promotional comments and a flame war? A great many of the regular UT players who played the map online thought it was a fun map.

My idea of an objective review is one that compares the map in question to all other existing UT CTF maps (including all the amatuer maps) and rates them either on a 10% per point (1-10) grade scale (or an 11% per point 9 point scale) or a Gaussian distribution and that doesn't knock a map down merely because the reviewer personally despises spam, was incensed by the mapper's promotion of his work, or because the texturing was not professional or didn't meet professional conventions. I regard Prophet's review as a pure joke; it even carries an air of mocking cynicism to it and I'm pretty certain it was intended to retaliate for his perception of the author's having hubris.

 

[darth_weasel]

we arent comparing your map to professional maps, the majority of ametur maps have better looks and gameplay, hence why you score way below average. also, since when did "spammy" cease to be a derogatory term? its a bad thing. i could say "there is a section of players that enjoy default cubes so the fact you gave it 2 is unobjective". c'mon, that's nonsense.