1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

You want hardcore realism, or not so?

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by St0rmcaller, Jul 9, 2001.

?

How much realism do you want?

  1. Infantry simulator. 'Nuff said.

    86 vote(s)
    78.9%
  2. More balance than realism.

    20 vote(s)
    18.3%
  3. Running and gunning is real, isn't it?

    3 vote(s)
    2.8%
  1. Overon

    Overon New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Beppo I thank you for not wanting to make INF a run and gun quake style deathmatch with realistic weapons. How badly will running affect aim?

    If it's bad enough it will help to make startegic realistic movements possible because right now INF rewards the run and gun style of gameplay and most of the maps are designed for it.
     
  2. GranoblasticMan

    GranoblasticMan New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    More linear maps are definately needed..
     
  3. Elite_Soldier

    Elite_Soldier -Malice-

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Beppo

    That was precisely the kind of answer I needed to hear.

    BTW, I realized why the gun doesn't seem to be affected much in the current version of INF. Go into INF Lite, and turn the bobble up to highest. Seem familiar to regular INF? You still have full accuracy. It just looks a bit funny. All the player needs to do is remember the center of the screen.
     
  4. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Messages:
    6,204
    Likes Received:
    0
    more linear maps are not the answer, in fact they are the exact oposite. The answer lies in switching the goal from frags to actual targets like rescueing downed pilos, blowing up stuff, assasination etc. something that does require some sort of teamwork.
     
  5. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 1999
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    5
    the accuracy depends on your current speed, so the faster ya run the more ya will miss... well a wall 20 meters away will show many bulletimpacts on a 3-5 square meter large plane around the spot you aim at if running and firing with a M16 or similar in aim mode ... hip will look like 8-10 or even more square meters...
    well ya cannot really try to describe these values... ya simply have to see them in-game... unreal "units" and real space aren't 100% compareable... so my values aren't exact at all... should just give ya an image not more.

    so plz do not start to discuss how accurate specific weapons should be or something alike.... cause it will lead to nothing at all, thx!

    and mission objectives like The_Fur described above are planned to be included in our EAS game mode... before ya ask: EAS will be implemented after 2.86 [​IMG]

    - Beppo
     
  6. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Messages:
    6,204
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW those who oted for option 3 please state your full name and adress so you can be dealth with.
     
  7. BrownCow

    BrownCow I Heart Gnat.

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2000
    Messages:
    965
    Likes Received:
    0

    394 Plat Road
    Colgate, WI 53017
    USA


    Now, everyone that picked the first option give me your address and name used online because you are most likely lying through your teeth. There are VERY few players who actually play "realistically" Therefor this poll is WAY off.

    I've seen fight club, i can make bombs. Hand me addresses please!
     
  8. CyanideTriscuit

    CyanideTriscuit UScript hack

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did not vote, because there was no option that fit my view.

    Infiltration is currently not an infantry simulator. Anyone who believes this either only plays offline or is completely blind.

    I don't want more balance than realism. A player with an assault rifle facing off against an equally skilled player with a pistol should plaster the pistoler 99 times out of 100. Maybe then he'll learn to take a real gun. Gun ROFs and damage should reflect reality. If 1 gun is superior to another in all aspects, then the game should reflect this, not try to balance it out.

    Running and gunning isn't real. Especially not the mindless rushes that I see online. The first 3 or 4 rounds on a map, I can often get 4 kills just by sitting and waiting in the same area time after time. Unfortunately my rushing teammates leave my flank exposed, and I eventually get shot by another enemy rusher. Oh, the perils of camping in a deathmatch game.

    This poll is faulty, as it does not include an intermediate option, like "Realism so long as it maintains fun gameplay". BrownCow is right, the poll results do not coincide with the tactics seen online at all.
     
  9. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2000
    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    0
    We will never reach the point where we will loose the fun factor in inf.. NEVER !

    So yes, an infantry simulator is a perfect goal for INF
     
  10. RogueLeader

    RogueLeader Tama-chan says, "aurf aurf aurf!"

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,314
    Likes Received:
    0
    Absolute realism IS what makes realism mods fun.
     
  11. CyanideTriscuit

    CyanideTriscuit UScript hack

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you're the masochistic type, eh? (3rd paragraph of my first post, the one with the graph)

    Show me a mod with absolute realism. Really, show me. INF is the best one I've found so far, and it's quite a ways from real yet. DarkBls said it best that absolute realism is a GOAL, one that will never actually be reached. Working towards it improves the game, achieving it would result in severe mental and/or physical trauma.
     
  12. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Messages:
    6,204
    Likes Received:
    0
    paging Browncow:

    A "cleaner" has been dispatched.
     
  13. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,512
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I can't show you a mod exactly but I know of a couple games.
    Jane's F-15
    and
    Jane's F/A-18

    Both of these titles used actual aircraft handling physics and atmospheric data provided by the US Air Force and NASA.
    The missions, AI, and campaign were all realistic. And I loved every minute of both minute of them. I got a huge rush everytime I survived a tough bombing run or made an Air to Air because I knew that it was as real as possible. It wasn't like Jane's US Navy Fighters which basically babysat you to and from your targets, leaving you only to pull the trigger and line up other aircraft.
    Both types of games were fun, but the more realistic one kept my attention longer because it actually challenged me, in a really big way. In US Navy Fighters I could literally shot down every enemy aircraft on the map, in F-15 or F/A-18 I couldn't even come close, infact it was my wingmen who did most of the Air to Air stuff for me, because if I had tried to dogfight with bombs strapped to my plane they would've blown me out of the sky

    My point is: Both types of games can be fun, so why polluted them with conventions from the other?
     
  14. GranoblasticMan

    GranoblasticMan New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Poaw, I -still- can't work out good missile evasion tactics in FA-18 or USAF... :(
     
  15. CyanideTriscuit

    CyanideTriscuit UScript hack

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    0
    I meant absolute realism in a FPS game.

    Near absolute realism in a plane/vehicle sim is wonderful IMO, and achievable because your options as a pilot/driver are limited to the controls on the plane/vehicle. Because of the limited amount of options, having them all available does not bog the game down with unimportant details.

    In a FPS, the endless possibilities that must be included for absolute realism to be reached would easily bog the game down. Already, realism has been sacrificed for ease of use. Moving, aiming, crouching, and firing are all complicated actions that have been simplified to mere button presses. These simplifications are neccesary, as INF is a computer game with a limited interface (keyboard, monitor, speakers, and mouse).

    I guess my beef is that the people who say they want absolute realism don't really want it. Absolute is a very strong word, and I don't think the proponents of absolute realism actually realize what it means. INF is realistic, and I want it to be more realistic than it currently is, but saying absolute realism is just too much. In fact, it's impossible without virtual reality technology that we won't have for at the very least another 50+ years. I don't want absolute realism, I want more realism.

    INF is nowhere near the absolute realism of those flight sims you've described. It's the best out there, but still nowhere close. Whether you aknowledge it or not, INF is already chin-deep in the conventions of the unrealistic FPS. They are slowly disappearing, but they are there, and ignoring them won't make them go away.

    I'm really tired of being labeled as an opponent of realism. I'm not. A lot of you people just jump at anyone who points out anything unrealistic in the game, or anyone that explains why an aspect of realism is hurting gameplay. Look, now you've made me cry :(
     
  16. [L]the_Countess

    [L]the_Countess Novice

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2001
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    @CyanideTriscuit
    mmm thats just about all i was thinking of writing when i read the post's untill i read your's

    althou i think the VR tech is a lot closer then 50 years :D

    you just cant realistly controle a body using a keyboard as you can with a airplane (sins that has a user interface aswell unlike a body)

    the ppl who voted for absolute realism dont know what they are asking for

    @ the fur (i hate duscussion with your becuase your to stuburn to even acknowlige my point's got a point)
    EAS wont solve all your problems as you think it will
    with AES you got a new objective
    not to kill but to do something else
    so everybody try's to get there first.
    realist? nope
    teamplay? not really just a mass rush
    covering flanks or alternative routes? nope becuase you get nothing for that
    and a team only based score only works in clanmatch's
    it just whould be no fun on the publics with only a teamscore sins on the publics you play for yourself.(i dont play to let john dow have fun)not really for the team sins you dont know most of your team most of the time

    because this game was made on the engine of a deathmatch game it's almost imposible to complitly elliminate that from any game made with it
    so a bit of the runNgun is probably going to stay (maybe with a stop added to fire but still rushes)
    i think "operations flashpoint" is a better game for you fur

    no its not
    a guy with a m203 and 25 reloads is absolute realism
    whould that be fun to play?
    random gun jam's whould be realistic
    fun?
    sins its a infantry game
    there should be a war going on as we play
    so there should be random artilary shelling,stray bullets, airplane's droping bomb's ,tanks driving throu the map, ect.
    fun?
    i hope i dont have to anser any of these questions
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2001
  17. GranoblasticMan

    GranoblasticMan New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hell yah. Gimme bigger maps and larger team sizes and I'm all for it.

    Wrong. I haven't ever heard of a gun jamming "randomly". There's always a reason.

    Most definately! Complete virtual warfare would just be insanely awesome. I went to Ft. Stewart, Georga last year for my (now this was a joke) Naval Sea Cadet Basic Training. At one point they let us train with the simulators they use with SIMNET/DARPA. They also showed us clips of other people using it. It's awesome when you have an M1A2 tank column rolling along who meets up with an enemy. All of a sudden they get in a heated battle, then call for backup. The AH-64's come flying in over he horizon and obliterate the enemy tanks.

    Anyway, to recap what I said up there ^, a complete virtual battlefield is what I'm hoping for some day. (Not too far off, when you think about it...)
     
  18. {D.A}Arfur_Barrel

    {D.A}Arfur_Barrel Ten-shun

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know it's not quite what u guys mean by 'realism',but I think one of the main detractors away from a realistic combat simulation is all the whining that goes on in the chat area during a game...

    Imagine it...the last quarter of 'Saving Private Ryan',the troops are slowly making their way forward,bombed out ruin to bombed out ruin,and all u can hear above the occasional gunshot is Tom Hanks shouting"GET UP YA CAMPER"....."Why u Sons-a-bitches are all yella bellied proners...."

    U guys crack me up...:D
     
  19. DarkSniper

    DarkSniper Do something other than design levels?

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2001
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would like to see "PEOPLE" just "PLAY" INF to its fullest potential. Imagine a round of play where the players on each team moved "with" communication, "from" cover to cover, slowly, concerned about thier possible "Death" as well as that of their teammates'. Carrying a realistic loadout. THEN INF would be "realistic".

    The day I d/led this mod was the day I quite playing UT. Today I encountered so many "bug" abusers that I stopped playing for most of the day.

    It is not up to the New guy to know what to do and not to do. It is up to us to tell the new guy. And to tell the guy who is just a point hunting jerk to get lost.

    Realism while still remaining a fun game has already been acheived (except for some recognized bugs) gentlemen. It is up to us to ensure it is played that way...........

    Just my thoughts at 2:27am with a belly full of warm beer and a love of INF.
     
  20. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Messages:
    6,204
    Likes Received:
    0
    @countess pofcourse I don't acknowledge your points countess, they usually reek.

    As for EAS solviing the problems. It would as soon as killing the enemy team no longer gives any points there is no incentive for people to run off alone hunting for frags simply because they don't count anymore, so running off alone will become simply useless. You will see people sticking together and working to the objective simply because that works and will get you a score.
     

Share This Page