Unreal Tournament on the PS2 looks better than the PC version.

|H|Alarion · Sep 29, 2000

And while am at it, just for some kicks, here's some screenshots for ya:
yes I realize the backgrounds and other "NPC" (non player cars

) look like poop.. but you seem to want to compare the foreground objects, so here goes(and remember, this is a game of a lower calibre than GT3):

http://www.microsoft.com/games/midtown2/img/screens/cablecar.jpg
http://www.microsoft.com/games/midtown2/img/screens/madness.jpg
http://www.microsoft.com/games/midtown2/img/screens/angel.jpg

this game uses primitve graphics "techniques" but see how easy it is to make the care look impressive?

not to mention this series of games is FUN FUN FUN

Kokensu · Sep 29, 2000

I only have a few points to make....

1: The Pictures of UT look pretty blurry to me, that would probably bug me alot.

2: I have to agree with Alarion on one of his points. The cars in those screen shots DO look REALLY nice, and that IS due to the texture mapping. I read an article(forget where), that explains how they wrap the texures around the polygon edges to make them look more realistic. It looks good. The backgrounds on that game look pretty crappy though, from what I've seen anyway.

3: Prophetus said "PC graphics will eve?ntually reach a limit". WTF is that garbage? So what you're saying is that PC graphics will no longer advance but consoles will. That makes no sense to me especially considering that the same people working on the XBox graphics make PC video cards. I guess you're saying they're going to stop making PC cards in the future, because I don't see how one market would advance and one couldn't when they're based off the same kind of technology.

4: My biggest gripe with Consoles is that when they become obsolete, they go in the trash(figure of speech). I have a Super Nintendo, I don't play it much. Why? Cause the graphics suck now and a better reason is that Nintendo stopped making descent games for it when N64 was coming out. You guys claim that you spend so much less than PC owners and much less often. I don't spend alot on my PC. Granted some people DO spend 2000 dollars every 6 months on a PC. I don't, I spend maybe 300-400 a year at most on my PC stuff. And it's usually a Christmas or Birthday present. That's total. Gaming related I probably spend less(not counting the cost of video games since both console and PC games are around the same price). Those costs are not always performance costs either i.e. burner, surround soud, etc. . Another point is that I don't THROW AWAY my old PC stuff. I now have 3 computers in my house. One for me, one for my girl, and a linux server. The other two were built from old parts that I KEPT from my previous upgrades. I don't like buying something that's top of the line today that I won't get any use out of tomorrow. I can also play alot of my old games and some of my new games on those same OLD parts. I can't go play a N64 game on my Super Nintendo. Granted Sony got smart and made the PS2 backwards compatible with the PS1, that was smart.

5: If the PS2 can be played on my monitor and not my low res TV then it might be worth it. But those high res screen shots that you see here are not going to look the same on a
320x200 TV. Maybe on a high res TV or monitor, but I'm not buying a high res TV anytime soon, especially not just for games.

6: My final point is that the types of games "I" like are not usually found on Consoles. I like GOOD RPG's. Don't get me wrong I love the Square series of games, but the consoles tend to do those games with big flashy movies and less gameplay. Yes I've played almost all of the Square games so I know what Im saying here. FF8 was a big movie. FPS games remain to be seen, although the UT shots look descent.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when the thing is actually released....

Necroth · Sep 29, 2000

IMHO i think in the upcoming years the look of computers will change drasticly.
We still thinking that we use at home an PC, or PS2 etc, but i sooner think we have a kind of computer at home that will handle all.

Not only games, or some textwriting, but i mean controlling you house electricity, your phonelines, TV, heating, even maybe you cookingdevices and refridgerators.
Think of it like an centralcomputer-core like in Star-trek.
And you play games on a Terminal, Thats designed for gaming.
But the program itself is processed by the main PC.

Microsoft, SCO, IBM, just a few, that are allready researching this, There are allready protocols ready that we can use on normal electricity net, for transporting data, More and more GX cards handle TV signals, and allmost everyone has CD or DVD in their PC's.
So we are allready getting more and more close to let one computer handle all kind off stuff.

I think in the future we are plugging a kind of Xbox or PS2 into a port of a hub, to our central computer, that we can play games with the highest standards.
Same now with networks, often the server never get upgraded, at least way less as the clients does,
Now even the tendens start to have NetWorkPC's back, like the old Terminals.

Even as a total PC geek, i know the PC in the form we know it is dead. The PC, will forfill more and more as the computer-core, and we plug Terminals and Household Devices in it, control all those.

This allready is starting with compagny based networks, and within a few years when this is normal at work, it will start at home as well.
And with the techonlogy upcoming, and getting better by each generation of chips, we still havent seen the sky.

Kokensu · Sep 29, 2000

You may be right BlowSmoke

But I certainly hope that it's not using a microsoft O.S. Last thing I need is my entire house crashing because of a blue screen!

Prophetus · Sep 29, 2000

The fact remains...unless PC's become a stable environment for games, the consoles will surpass the PC...in sales. Maybe not in graphics. But one day, computer graphics will have reach a point of no improvement...then what?

Kokensu, I suggest you take a class in reading comprehension and understanding. I didn't say "PC" graphics will stop and consoles will continue. I was saying that all computer based graphics will reach a point of no improvement. If you haven't noticed...console games are computer generated graphics. Look up and see the line where I say "...in sales. Maybe not in graphics.". Reread and understand. Also, take a class on how to quote someone. When you quote, don't add your own words...

My arguement is not centered around what is better, PC's or Consoles. What I am saying is that sales will determine what system survives. Some posted earlier he didn't care about sales and it doesn't matter<-----*NOTE KOKENSU that is not a quote*. But sales do matter. If it didn't matter then why is more and more game programming companies sign on to do console games? It is the driving force of this market...money. If PC's do not become more stable and don't require a computer geek to figure out how to lower his frame rates, connect faster, display more polygons and fix bugs that shouldn't exist...then the next generation of gamers will preferr a console over a PC. Someone also noted that online play is more exciting than single player games<-----*NOTE KOKENSU that is not a quote*. This is so true to me also. But consoles will invade our online space. Thus extending the gameplay of console games. If consoles perfect this, then what will be left is plain eye candy vs eye candy. However, many will accept a lower quality (compared to PC's) detail for ease of use and stability.

I conclude with a quote from Kokensu:

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when the thing is actually released....

*NOTE KOKENSU that is a quote*

Goughmezz · Sep 29, 2000

LOL!!!!

Watchdog · Sep 29, 2000

Firstly, I don't own a console. I'm not impressed by the ps2.

But honestly, the ps2 car game looks a hell of a lot better than the PC one, Alarion. The background don't look like sh1t, they're fine, you people are looking for things to gripe about. Talk about backgrounds--those PC shots look like lego (I'm not a racing game fan hehe)

Someone said: Who is going to make a mod for a console? Let's think about this statement for a moment. People make mods because they are programmers, and are looking to get into the industry (typically. Counter-Strike and Team Fortress started out this way). If 10 million people own the console version of the game, and 500,000 own the PC version--which one would you code for? The more people that notice the mod the better, right? The more people that love your mod, the more likely your mmod will get picked up by the original company. Seems to make sense to me.

Proph's point about PC graphics reaching a point of no improvement was made about both consoles and PCs. He point was that if the games look and perform the same, why not go for the cheaper alternative.

No, I don't spend 1000s of dollars every year on an upgrade either, but I can't always play the games on the highest detail settings either. It stutters, loads, freezes at random moments, etc. Consoles don't have this problem. I'm going to take a good long look at the xbox. It is a PC geared specifically for games. This sounds good to me. Also, I think now that Sony has initiated it, all future consoles will be backwards compatible. So you may need to get a new machine every three years (200-300 bucks--why can't this be a birthday or christmas present? What's your point there?) but thats it--every three years. Not small 200-300 upgrades every year (also, eventually you have to make a big upgrade). It is impossible to even argue that PC's can be as cost effective as consoles. Just don't do it.

Watchdog · Sep 29, 2000

Also, look at all the other pics from midtown madness--they are pretty bad:

http://pc.ign.com/reviews/14261.html

Ultron · Sep 29, 2000

Originally posted by Kukuman
Oh, and one more thing. The PS2 is limited to a resolution of roughly 640x480. All consoles are. This is because of the limitations of the television. You may only be able to see some jaggies onscreen on there, but the PS2 has no FSAA and is limited to a low resolution by PC standards, so when you get in front of the TV, you will notice it.

The NTSC signal, as well as the dot pitch of the TV will do a lot of the blurring and smoothing to the eye. So the PS2, even without AA, will look pretty good. You would notice the pixelation a lot more plugged into a monitor though.

|H|Alarion · Sep 29, 2000

please READ first before posting.. it's not hard to do

Next time read the whole post please.???

quote from me:

yes I realize the backgrounds and other "NPC" (non player cars ) look like poop.. but you seem to want to compare the foreground objects, so here goes(and remember, this is a game of a lower calibre than GT3):

this game uses primitve graphics "techniques" but see how easy it is to make the care look impressive?

I plainly state that the graphics are primitive and it is a low calibre game. What I was *trying* to point out was that the car in the foreground (you know, the one that's all shiny) looks just as good as the ones on the PS2 shots. Midtown Madness was never meant to have brilliant graphics, because of the nature of the game.

Gosh darn why can't people read before they go on trying to shoot people down.. i at least read the whole thread before posting...

Not trying to sound harsh, but I get irritated at that some times...

I could have just as easily gotten some screenshots of Halo or Giants up there...

but yet I digress

Just for the heck:
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_6982.html
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_6981.html
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_6436.html
this one just looks funny: http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_4365.html
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_4766.html
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_1896.html - yes, backgrounds are ugly again
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_4155.html - Nascar 4
http://www.dailyradar.com/screens/game_preview_all_screen_4158.html - Nascar 4 again.. i think these cars look real *close to it anyhow*

as well, to see the uglier screenshots I was talking about, try here: http://ps2.ign.com/previews/13846.html ... this is what I was basing the ugliness on... yes, the ones that were originally posted looked rather spiffy..

Watchdog · Sep 29, 2000

Yes I read your post--I was talking about the main car--I don't think it looks as good. It is far too shiney and otherwise dull.

hal · Sep 29, 2000

rrrrrreaaaaaooooooowwwwwwrrr! pfffft! pfffffft!

Kokensu · Sep 30, 2000

*NOTE PROPHETUS

Forgive me for questioning you. I forgot that you know everything about how the game industry works. My deepest apologies for misquoting you as well. I don't know how to do the quote field in this forum and I didn't feel like paging back to get your exact words. Besides the fact that I was at work at the time and was rushing my post. Although I don't see much difference between "PC graphics will eventually reach a limit" and "computer graphics will have reach a point of no improvement". Sorry for not getting the wording precise enough for you. That was the only part that I "QUOTED". The rest of that point was going off of what it sounded like your were IMPLYING. It sounded like you were IMPLYING that since computer graphics would "reach a point of no improvement" that consoles somehow would continue to improve, otherwise I don't see why you would have said "then what?" after that statement. Please forgive me for misinterpreting your post. Apparently I can't keep up with the complex thought processes that go into them.

Aside from the snide remarks I happen to agree with your posts except for the fact that "COMPUTER GRAPHICS WILL REACH A POINT OF NO IMPROVEMENT". Then again I can't see into the future like you obviously can. Yes the gaming market is drivin by money, most markets are. I don't see Consoles replacing PC's that's all(only speaking of games). Although someone did mention(IM NOT QUOTING), that some vendors are trying to make a "living room" console of sorts. I've already seen some PC designs that have remote controls and adapters for a receiver and DVD player. This could be where PC's or maybe even consoles are heading. Turning them into a sort of all-in-one living room unit. But who knows, that's further down the road.

Oh and I signed up for the reading comprehension and understanding(which mean the same damn thing by the way) course that you suggested. But I was too late for the class on quoting, so I guess you'll have to deal with my semi-quotes, not that I really care.

Flame on...

Big giB · Sep 30, 2000

Well, I don't think it will be as succesful as the PC version. The graphix look like the PC version's medium resolution. That better not be the maximum. The health and armour bars also suck. Also, I bet there will be no UnrealED for it. That means no custom maps, and don't forget about em mods and mutators (user made) You'll get bored of it MUCH faster than its PC brother. WHat else? Oh yeah, you can't upgrade and the controllers. UT IMO works best with the mouse and keyboard. BTW why the hell would we all care about the PSX2 version? We already own UT. Not like we'd go out and buy a PSX2 and their UT version. Well, I'm done bitchen. Continue on with yer lives.

Prophetus · Sep 30, 2000

Kokensu, I was only trying to be humerous and after reading my post, I signed up for a course on "Smileys and their incorporation".

As far as Computer graphics reaching the point, one day graphics will be like movies and photo realistic. That day will come, maybe not soon, but it will. I only wanted to say that when it does come, consoles will be producing the same thing. Then what's left for choices between PC's and Consoles will be stability and costs.

And no, I'm not the guru of computers or technology. 95% of the time, I'm wrong...well...ok...99% of the time

.

Watchdog · Sep 30, 2000

Big-Gib, lol, you obviously haven't been reading this post. So i'll summerize. The PS2 (and every new console for that matter) have a mouse and keyboard. The xbox (the only console I'm concerned with) will have a harddrive to download maps, mods and mutators. The xbox costs 10% of the cost of a new pc, and 1/3 less than a new graphics card. It will be a PC that plays only games. Most of you guys already have PCs that only play games anyway, but the difference is that you paid $2000+ for it

. I'm still not sure why you PC heads won't even consider the viability of a well-designed console.

Kaz · Sep 30, 2000

I am bowing out of this whole conversation.

I am dissapointed by many peoples lack of maturity and so forth. Not any one person is guilty of this though I will not name names.

It is already a given fact that PS2 will do well..it already is doing well

PC's/Mac's are doing just fine as well....buy what you wish and stop trying to persuade others. They will buy what they want.

I have seen so much hypocrytical bull**** throughout this thread that I am steppin on $hit everywhere.

Oh well....whoever wishes to continue this groveling (spelling?) over this subject may. (IMHO) everything has been said and the rest is just overkill.

Now I'll get back to my paper...laterz all

Robo-Junkie · Sep 30, 2000

Huh?

Prophetus wrong?! ......

*loses all respect for prophetus*

My world has been shattered!!!! Noooo!!!!!

heheh... ok, maybe I overdid it a little bit

Ruffrider · Sep 30, 2000

The only reason im getting PS2 is because of Gran Turismo. I have a obsession with car games

.

Watchdog · Sep 30, 2000

Kaz, welcome to a DISCUSSION. Lol, i don't recall any name calling, immaturity or anything like that. I guess i'm not reading between the lines

.

Unreal Tournament on the PS2 looks better than the PC version.

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