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Unreal Evolution for UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Sir_Brizz, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. KillerSkaarj

    KillerSkaarj Art for swans is dope!

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    ...Wow... Just wow.

    I want to tell you something. Not all hardcore U1 fans such as myself own those games, nor have any desire to. Just because a game is unpopular doesn't mean more people won't start playing the game again.

    UT3 has enough of a playerbase, and I'm pretty sure most, if not all fans of U1 and UT99 will probably buy UT3 just for this mod, thus increasing the playerbase.

    How much sense does it make to make a mod based on the ORIGINAL UNREAL on an engine other than an UNREAL ENGINE game, besides UT2K4.

    On a similar note, I don't want to hear about UT2K4 again. I'm sick of you people tooting your horn about how UT3 fails and UT2K4 still dominates. Just because it has a bigger playerbase doesn't make it better. I swear to you if UT3 would work on my computer, I'd have left UT2K4 a digital hobo on my drive. And before you use Unreal 1 as a counter against me, Unreal 1 has left behind a legacy. A legacy that was passed on to UT99, killed in UT2K4, and partly revived in UT3. That legacy has brought us to play constantly for 10 years and eventually improve the game engine itself. And with this mod, the legacy can be fully revived in UT3. Porting and upgrading the original game on any engine other than UE3 would be an insult. UE3 is basically begging for something like this, and it would die on any other engine. So I don't want to hear you promoting anything other than UT3 just because UT3 isn't good enough for you.

    I hope I've made my point.

    And now back to the blatantly ignored topic, if I knew how to use UEd4 as well as I use UEd1 and 2, I would have started making Nyleve already. Too bad I don't, so I guess I'mma have to sit this one out and just cheer from the sidelines.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  2. GreatEmerald

    GreatEmerald Khnumhotep

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    Yea, UT3 is fine, as there's already an U1 mod for UT2004, made by Dots (and actually I even made a small submod for that). And I'm sure a lot of people are waiting for it, just like me. This mod would even make me buy UT3 :D
     
  3. chu::LOB::

    chu::LOB:: New Member

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    I am not disputing that it's easier to make UE3 games look better. I am disputing the cost to the potential playerbase. But because you don't seem to care if only a few hundred people ever see or try your work, you don't think it's relevant.

    Good gameplay is more important than cutting edge graphics. And while UT3's core gameplay is better than UT2004's, the bugs, lack of polish and cost of entry to the latter were enough to prevent success. I'm asking you to port gameplay to a more viable engine.

    And ultimately, while it may make sense for Epic to make cutting edge games (they get money from hardware sponsors like nvidia who's graphics cards sales Epic supports by releasing new titles) it doesn't make much sense for you to do the same (you get no such reward for choosing an engine that has the deck stacked against it).

    You've been around long enough to spot trends in gaming. I'm asking you to use your head, man. For that last 10 years, no "next-gen engine" FPS shooter has been able to build a successful online playerbase. Doom III? Failtrain. Quake4? Failtrain. And it's not just because the gameplay sucks. Even COD4, which was built "in-house" by IW is really only a "middle-gen engine"; wisely, it has minimum specs that will run on those rigs that were built to run UT2004 at high settings. Smart developers release a single player game based on next gen engines, and then the folks who license the engine complete online games based on the engine a few years later, giving the users ample time to upgrade.

    You should look at CS 1.6 and Warsow. Both are games that, for the age of their engines (10 plus years old) look pretty amazing. Thought neither would be confused with a modern game's graphics to be sure, what those artists have done with older technology is impressive. One would suppose that comparable visual gains (with good coders and artists) could be wrung from UT 2004's engine as well.

    UT2003 players said the same thing to UT99 players. Turns out that having next gen specs is less important than providing good gameplay to more people.

    There is a point of diminishing returns when going back to previous generations of engines. I'd argue that UE2's scalability would allow roughly the same potential userbase (i.e. it makes sense supporting 5 year old hardware, supporting 10 year old hardware won't net you that many more potential players).


    That's just flat hyperbole.

    There are plenty of people who can play UE2 games with 70-100 FPS at 1280 x 1024 who get sub 30 framerates at UT3 at 800 x 600. By using UE2 as a base, suddenly, all of those rigs built the UT2004 generation of games would become viable. The folks at Infinity Ward realized this (by supporting the rigs that were built for UE2 games) and were rewarded with more players outside of any FPS this side of CS.

    I said Online Player Counts. There are a few hundred people who PLAY UT3, not own. While the game sold many times that; only the tiniest fraction of those users play it. Furthermore, only a portion of those users play online.

    I think you are well intended but your reasoning is questionable.
     
  4. keaukrine

    keaukrine New Member

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    Sir_Brizz, can you show one screenshot of that NyLeve map?

    Oh, and I see a discussion about "how many people are playing UT3 nowadays". I don't care about how many people play it's multiplayer gametypes, you just look how many people downloaded such singleplayer-only mod as The Ball. And this mod will be as popular as The Ball IMO.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  5. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    I think youre being biased, the more viable engine is the one that increases productivity, that engine not being UE2.5. While I agree there are plenty of potential problems with UE3 (specifically the UT3 version) the workflow enhancements are bound to save lots of time (not only that it opens up more room for people with multi-talents).

    Dont think that the focus here is graphics, part of it is gameplay but there was always more to Unreal then those 2 factors!

    If people really want to play it, they'll just have to install and boot up the mod with UT3! If people are that narrow minded they wouldnt try a mod for the fact its made on UT3 (purely as a base) then thats their problem. The goal here is to recreate Unreal and do the original game justice, if that can be done, it'll be a success no matter how many players are online (or play it offline!)!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  6. Kaithofis

    Kaithofis The Seldom Seen Kid

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    Oh. Actually, I'm just in it for the graphics :x
     
  7. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Why you little.... *steals some notes off Kaithofis' head and goes to the casino*
     
  8. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I really don't get where you are seeing this "few hundred people". You even admitted you were only talking about the active online playerbase, but what difference does that make? There are also the people who don't play the game online, or who own the game and just aren't interested in it. Regardless of your situation, these are still potential players.
    UE2 is NOT a more viable engine. Just because UT3 has bugs doesn't mean that those bugs translate to every mod created with it. Look at The Ball mod. Oh wait, you can't. :shake:

    Here's my formula:

    Good gameplay + Good graphics > Good gameplay + poopy graphics
    Why doesn't it make sense to convert the game into an Engine where we can actually do it justice? There are a lot of features in UE3 that make things like water look MUCH more like UE1 than you can get in UE2.

    And, frankly, how is the deck stacked against UE3 (as opposed to UT3)? There are hundreds of games using UE3, and many of them are the most highly rated games out there. I think it is you who is being shortsighted here.
    And those games emphasize my point. If we remade the game in those, it would practically look the same as it already does, aka no reason to remake it. Me and the rest of the team want the game to look good, we want people to get that same sense of wonder from it as they did the first time they played Unreal, and they aren't going to get that with anything but UE3.
    Why are you bringing gameplay into this?!?!? It's not like core UT3 gameplay is going to end up at the centerpiece of the mod. Why would it? We're remaking Unreal, not creating a UT3 single player campaign.
    It was an example. You're asking me to limit my development platform because it will increase the number of people that can play it with that limitation will increase (or, rather, that there is no reason to use a more advanced development platform because nobody can make use of that platform).
    I just don't see what the number of online players has to do with how many people will play the mod, and frankly I really don't care. The first rule of modding is "Don't make your mod to draw in massive numbers of players." Reason? Almost every mod does worse than anyone could hope it would do and you'll just let yourself down. I'm making this mod because I like the idea of it and I'm encouraged by what we can do on UE3. I see no rason to go back to the UT2004 (which is a very limited platform, IMO) just to appease a certain group of players.
     
  9. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    Please don't remind me that, I said earlier that I hope that this Unreal Evolution will be better than these mods and I meant especially the dots one, it was bugged as hell (made me even unable to continue because the game thought i cheat and to enter next map), he ruined atmosphere and added crashware (if you open locked maps in console, you get crash saying that you cheats etc), thanks but never again that thing. Don't refer to work of people who only want popularity and don't care about quality and ruin the thing with their own ideas.
    Besides I remember there being another project, by some russian guys, I forgot if it was cancelled or not...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  10. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Do you guys have a forum, or do you use this thread for information and screenshots (once something to say and show)?
     
  11. Firefly

    Firefly United Kingdom is not a country.

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    Sir_Brizz is spot here.

    The majority of custom content including maps and mods is now made for UT3. UT2k4 is has had it's day, time to save up and buy a new rig.

    Don't complain that everyone else doesn't stop and wait.

    2 Psychomorph
    please use this thread for now

    2 keaukrine
    I'm the one making Nyleve. I don't mind posting a screen if the rest of the team don't but I think it's a little early for a public shot
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  12. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    But that would be soooo awesome, not for content sake, but to throw in something to talk about, that could theoretically generate some interesting ideas, thoughts, or discussions. Not everybody here can be a developer, but everybody can have good ideas, you know.
     
  13. GreatEmerald

    GreatEmerald Khnumhotep

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    You're totally wrong here. The only thing that you have stated again Unreal Game is the crash [art on game open - well, if you actually *read* the forum post of the mod, you would see that all you need to unlock those is change one INI entry, which I did and am absolutely happy. There are no crashes whatsoever.
    Of course, you might say that it's just a direct copy and nothing interesting, but it's better than nothing because you can use mods with it, like I've did, to gain items like original UT2004 weapons or even Unreal II weapons... Although sure, it's better if it was redone, not copied, but I really don't think this team will have enough time to remake everything too... Although who knows...
    And don't question Dots, he has made a *lot* of great mods that everyone use today. If there is someone that "only want popularity and don't care about quality", that's certainly not Dots.

    So, either way do it on UE3 because:
    1. It's already done on UE2
    2. The patch for UT3 is coming soon
     
  14. foddermcfly

    foddermcfly New Member

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    This sounds pretty sweet, can't wait to see some shots of it. I would most definitely play this if/when it is ever released. If the atmosphere and originality can be kept from the original, this would be one amazing mod for UT3.


    Why are some people making a stink about this.... What is the point of updating an old game to run on another old game? Making this for UT3 makes much more sense than for UT2k4. Considering how old Unreal is, wouldn't it make the most sense to make it as current as possible?

    If people don't have UT3, then bummer for them. If they really want to play this, they can go get UT3 first....lol.


    I am looking forward to playing this mod!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2009
  15. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    Some time ago I was suddenly thinking about a different way to have the transition from the Vortex Rikers to the outer level of NyLeve's Fall, much cooler so to speak and actually more believable in my opinion.

    [screenshot]http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2343/unrealevolutionidea01kc5.jpg[/screenshot]

    The thought is, that when the ship crashes on the planet it diggs way to much to have the lower exits usable at that point, you rather leave the vessel through an emergency hatch at the top or the upper sides (1).
    I think it would be much cooler to get that view on NaPali when stepping on top of the ship (3).
    The rest of the story is close to original, you get the village/hut that was lucky not to be smashed by the vessel and the waterfall at the left (4).

    Do not forget to add nice effects, such as smoke from the ship, smoke from burnt earth, plants and palms near the ship, ripped off hull parts with cutted cables and flackering electricity sticking out, etc. Man, it could be so awesome.


    As for the interrior of the ship, those who played Quake4 know how awesome the interrior (and exterrior) human vessel design is, it was really amazing to walk through the tight hallways full of complex structure. In my picture I kind of wanted to recreate that aspect (roughly).
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  16. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD fart

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    I can't map or code but I can certainly beta test if the position is available.

    Do we have models for the Skaarj yet? I'd love to see what they look like.
     
  17. KillerSkaarj

    KillerSkaarj Art for swans is dope!

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    So, if we release something as awesome as a U1 remake for UT3, you're sure only a handful of a few hundred peopel are going to download and play it.

    Playerbase doesn't matter. People make mods so that people of any number could play it. Also, why develop something with mediocre tools when more advanced tools are available for us to use? Why not build it to its full potential rather than simply port it over, as .:..: has already done. We don't need two U1 mods on the Unreal Engine 2. We need UE3. Not the Source engine. No other engine can captivate the Unreal atmosphere. Plus, we'd have to make the guns from scratch. UT3 already has all the things we need, Stinger and Enforcer included. All we have to do is make the monsters and the levels. Not only this, but we'd have to learn to map and code in the Source engine, takign up valuable time.

    What you fail to see is that a mod of this caliber will bring more people back to UT3. Do you expect us to sit and beg them to come back? They won't come back without a motivator, and this mod could serve as one.

    Back to the topic yet again, I'm really eager to see what U1 monster you guys upgraded. Please tell me it was a Skaarj... please... or at least a Brute. I've always wanted to see a UE3 Brute.
     
  18. Diehard

    Diehard New Member

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    I think you miss the point there. For mappers, modders, texture artists, its a challenge to create and build new content. The sole purpose of the editor and supporting programs is that you actually can build pretty much whatever you want, building stuff is the cool part(and frustrating most of the time :D ). And i think if you really can rebuild a cool weapon like the original ASMD or an eightball and sniper with the exact same functions and effect, anyone will find that cool to play with, because UT3 DOESNT have them like that :)


    And trying to bring people back in a game is the worst reason to build it, you should do it because you like to build it, regardless the amount of people playing it. If a million people is gonna play it, it would be awsome. But if 500 people play it, is already awsome as well :) The challenge is to pull it off, not the amount of redrawn people.
    .
    .
    .
     
  19. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    I disagree here, besides I didn't see forum post, I tried it, got scared and ran away, besides it was not direct copy, he changed things here and there and it would be beter if it was direct copy at all....because he ruined atmosphere and its still buggy mod, these sounds wtf, like if you hit altfire of dp, it will make charge siound even if hit only shortly to full time, etc and many annoying things.
    I do question dots, I don't simply like his stuff, I know the guy a lot for years and you can bet he doesn't like me either. Don't forget I was in Unreal long before you did so and he is not really that of god as man think and yes he does care only for popularity, that can speak for people who truly know his behavior.
    I don't care if anyone use his mods, I don't, period...I did use some of them but I never truly liked any of his mod (maybe few exceptions but even that was not so great), always there stinked something on it, either bugs or some malicious code, big thanks for him for starting the trend of abusive mods. He never did something great, he only wants to show his "skills". There is no artistic value in his mods whatsoever either, all he could draw or make himself is really crappy skin which looks like some retarded kid has done. Don't get me started on that...if he does have some point or good core, he ruins it with his own ideas, I have learned that when he "raped" my idea back in 2004/05 of one mod, when he proposed he will "finish" it for me...he usually tells others in servers about this case too, only from different point of view and that it was my fault. So I don't feel bad talking about him bad way, because he does the same and I have seen logs where he does so.
     
  20. KillerSkaarj

    KillerSkaarj Art for swans is dope!

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    Diehard, I was talking to someone else. I think his name was Chu::Lob or something.

    I'm not going to provoke anyone, but this post amuses me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009

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