Thoughts on your development as a player

[Blatant Bastich]

Wow great thought provoking thread!

Everyone in this thead has made some simply awesome points! But I feel Hal said it best, there is no substitute for hardcore playing time. I remeber three months ago when my gal and her son were gone on a two week vacation. I played UT day and night and made progress in leaps and bounds in very little time. Now that my playing time has decreased I feel I too have reached that dreaded plateau

I have tried the hardware route to improve: new mouse and vid card.

I have tried the tweak route: lose the weapon view and change mouse sensistivity.

But the only thing that seems to be working is the IDGAF method

By implementing IDGAF I have noticed recent improvement. I will try to continue this method for the rest of my playing days. No more gripping the mouse with IDGAF, no more getting pissed a llamas, and not caring about my personal score in team games. YES, with IDGAF I'm back on track of improvment

Just remeber if you die "IDGAF" respawn and try again!
Some one being a wiener "IDGAF" ignore him and go on!
Is someone way out classing you and making you feel dumb "IDGAF" learn from them!

See if it helps you!


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oh yeah IDGAF = I DON"T GIVE A F@CK ...like you needed to know

 

[HuFlungzeDung]

Wow, Bodkin, that is quite the mouse setup you've got going! That would throw me for a loop. What do you do for alt fire and translocator and weapon switch?
I can see what you are driving at in your advice about dancing, but I disagree mildly. I just long for the moment when the enemy stops moving for an instant, because in the next one, he's catching a flak grenade or a bullet to the head. The only time I get killed by a stationary opponent is when he has anticipated where I am going and he's got a combo ready! Anticipated shots are great to pull off, but they are not the mainstay of the game. If you are playing with lag, the reason for the dance is because your lead is off a bit. There is often not enough visual feedback to see where the shot went. So, the uncertainty factor is the main problem I deal with.

So far as keyboard binds and WASD, just spread out the keys a bit, it doesn't really matter which ones you use. I think it is important to make use of all 5 fingers of your left hand, (even that is not enough). For example, I use left pinkie on shift for forward, Z strafe left (4th finger), X strafe right(middle finger), C reload (for games that require it, index finger),left Control for crouch (laying pinkie down across both shift and Ctrl if required), back is thumb on spacebar. Jump is on S. Walk is on A. I can't jump AND strafe right with this setup, but I haven't figured out anything better yet. If your keyboard has a decent sized left shift key, you can fairly easily keep your little finger busy, while still moving your middle three fingers to the row above ZXC. Keeping your pinkie planted on shift helps to keep your hand in the proper place.

 

[hal]

I just love the insight everyone has about playing this game.

bodkins, in addition to having the most unusual keybinds I've heard of, you hit on some important points. Not everything you can improve on is physical.

There is a definite mental game as has been pointed out. What you discovered was the combo-bait. You saw Foo! run away and figured you had an easy kill - and found out you were wrong. It is a BAD idea to chase an opponent because you don't know where they are going...but they sure know where you are going. Most likely they'll greet you there with some heavy artillery.

Don't overlook the repetitious nature of the game, however. You have to play a lot to even get to your second level and retain those first level skills.

That dancing you were talking about is important if you are within deadly range of whatever weapon your opponent happens to be wielding. If you are in said range, you'll need to be sure you are moving as unpredictably as possible or you'll find out why you should be. If you are out of that range or are able to retreat to a place where you will be, feel free to stand still and shoot away.

The best players:

*Shoot/avoid you before you have a chance to even see them.
*Bait you into chasing them so that they "position you".
*Remain at full armor/health.
*Know where you are or will be going.
*Are able to "dance" effectively when all else fails.

All that takes massive "in-game" time and an intimate knowledge of maps, weapons and strategy. No small feat.

 

[soyrico]

Hey,

I couldn't agree more. If I gave you the impression that defensive movement was bad, then I gave you the wrong impression. When I'm under intense attack, I hop like a bunny.

The "dance" that I was referring to I also call the Thresh square dance. That is, two players circle strafe and hop like mothers while trying to shoot each other in the feet with rockets. Stupid.

I move constantly by the way. I have trained myself to "aim" while moving and strafing. BUT I try not to "hop" while I'm on the attack. It throws off my aim and destabalizes my weapon. I reserve that as a butt saving manouver.

I only used the stationary shot as an example of something ideal. That is, you manouver SOOO cleverly, that your opponent has no idea where you are and you simply execute him. That's rare. Usually, you need to move in combat. Clearly.

I played a guy at Swine the other night named Goku|LAO|. Wow. He didnt jump once. He moved like a hawk on a pursuit course for a rabbit. And in one or two shots he had me. DAMN. He was just playing around most of the match. Untill finally I said to him "are you gonna play micro FFA's or CTF". He laughed and said ok, I'll play CTF now. He was good.

When I see someone coming, running, and when they see me they start to hop like crazy, I KNOW I have them. Because I know that the only thing they can do is the "Thresh square dance". Very limited. Using the right weapon in its primary range is very effective. Hoppers just LOVE alternate rockets all over fired by a retreating defender.

Which reminds me. A simple retreat in the face of fire, (Firing while retreating backwards) is remarkable. The blue stairs on november are trivial to defend this way.

And finally, you are also right that UT is a game that MUST be played. You cannot just think about it. The detatchment mentioned in an earlier post makes great sense to me also.

Really good comments here.

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

P.S.

Online I suck. Offline I'm a little better. I learned offline; speed, accuracy, precision etc. None of that works online for me. I have majorly tweaked bots. Nasty bastards. They will headshot you out of a boot jump. Sooo, I have learned how to set up my shots without giving them too many. At least offline. If I ever get DSL, maybe I'll still suck online. -)

 

[soyrico]

Ooops,

One last thing. I actually use the tloc as a means of movement. Even then I don't always use it. The reason? You cant shoot someone without a weapon. If I am even a little unsure of my surroundings, I change weapons constantly to fit the situation as I run, aiming in the general direction of greatest threat. That way, if something happens, I have a gun in my hands pointed in the generally correct direction.

Some people seem to prefer tlocing to walking in all cases. I'm not sure I agree with that. I have killed MANY tlocers (hydro mainly) that tried to blink past me.

Just a thought.

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

P.S.

The telefrag is a sucker shot. It generally only works if you don't see it coming. By sucker shot I mean it requires surprise. Not that the user is a sucker. -)

 

[Ghode]

wow ive just read the thread, i alway used to think i was a crappy player, but all the suggestions people have made i always assumed everyone did them. but i have used these tactics for ages and i have to admit it improves your game loads. i think the post i most agreee with is the mind game post. i am primairily a flag runner, which means that i have to judge where the defence will be, when i enter the base, and also where they will most likely be when u exit the base. when i first started i would just leave the base gunsblazing, but now i use all different tactics. for example on coret if i am leaving the upper exit i will and i get to the Amour ramp i let off a few grenades, chances are some1 will be there, what this does it makes the NMe move backward tryin to get away from grenades, also if it hits them they loose health so u can whip out a flak to finish them off when u dodge down the ramp.

i think anticipation is one of the most important factos in this game. even if u dont have a good aim if u can anticpate where a player will be u can use the UT spam tactics to take them out.

Practice also helps since the more you practice the more u will learn how other players thinks, since on most maps there a key defensive point u will allway know to fire rockets/flak in that direction. only practice with humans can teach u this.

 

[Ineffectual]

Ok... I think this is one of the major reasons for me not wanting to learn dodge then... If there is such a latency time, what good is it to dodge constantly (like I've seen some members of |C| and other clans do)? Do they just have an impeccable sense of timing and know when the dodge can be used again? My other problem with dodging (which is probably due to lack of use) is that while dodging, I can't walk/run forward normally... is this really just due to lack of use or is there a trick to that too?



'Fect

 

[-BHS-Snowdog]

Well, I've found that dodging is best used when the situation calls for it, i.e. when you see a shock secondary on the way, rather than as a constant action. However, I would imagine that with practice you can get the timing down after a while, and be able to instinctively know how far apart continous dodges can be executed. I'm not to that point, but I'm sure there are folks that are.

I think one of the most effective uses of the dodge is to throw off other player's timing, however slightly. There are some spots on the Dom maps that I know so well, I can time rockets or shock combos just by getting a glimpse of a player. If they dodge a couple of times before they come into my killing zone, it can throw off the timing enough to cost me a frag. Same concept on Coret, shock bombing the flag carrier going out high from the flag holder: two forward dodges when coming off that jump pad is enough to affect the timing and save them (usually.)

 

[DividedSky]

'Fect:

The moving forward thing ... I just turn 90 degrees and dodge sideways. Maybe not the best solution, but I'm getting used to it.

Learning to dodge is kind of dodgy When I decided to take the plunge and turn on dodging ... well, I definitely took a plunge. In my NGStats, into lava, off of the tower in Face, etc. It takes a while to get used to and you'll do lots of dumb things that will drive you mad. I mean, I'd just be running along one of the bottom catwalks on Lava Giant and accidentally tap a key twice to adjust my direction and *SIZZLE*.

Without consciously doing anything, I'm now used to it and hardly ever "accidentally" dodge. As I stated previously, I'd still like to become more natural at it when fighting someone. I use it a lot when running around, but my brain's multitasking abilities (or lack thereof) prevent me from using it effectively in combat situations.

Despite all the frustration I went through, I'm glad I turned dodging on.

 

[UT Lobo]

Beaten like an old rug for the first time in months

I posted this on another thread too, but after reviewing some of this 'good stuff', I thought I would place it here also

Not kidding, maybe I drank too much coffee or just wasn't in sync with game lag, I don't know.

First the background, then the questions:

Last night I was pummelled ungraciously by some truely superior players. The first time I have ever backed out of a game before it was finished.

Now this really came as a shock to me, I am normally within the top three of any CTF match I am in, so my ego took a good bruising.

I had the misfortune of running across:

1) a great team

I am team orientated but have never been part of a clan officially, so team communication is not my forte, this means I couldnt get back-up while the bad guys swarmed over me. I managed to get their flag no less than 5 times and inevitably when coming back for the cap, nailed by two or three bogies in sync. It was neat to see, but not at all cool to receive their special attention.

2) a really good combo shooter (Fargo...he is skilled beware)

Now I have been blasted by combos my share, but not like last night. For a while I felt like I was just using up the shooter's charges, 4 at a time. I probably accounted for 52+ shock rifle charges in 15 minutes. For the first time I think I spent more time dying than shooting.

Not cool.

On ctf lavagiant the bogies would have 2-3 players that would hassle our team as they spawned. No big deal...happens all the time right? Well what if one of these guys can somehow time those combos perfectly? And what if another is very skilled at dishing out telefrags?

I usually couldn't even get a weapon, it was that quick.

I have to give alot of snaps for their skilled playing but D_A_M_N!!

3) Teletrainers and Telefraggers:

Well I already touched on that. They were as good as I have seen, and combine that with their team skills...ouch.

************************
So my questions are:

1. Tips for getting better with Shock rifle combos? when to use them, and how to move when using them. I have always used combos to great effect on short ranges, stationary.

Any good ways to improve dodging combo shots? Do you watch the direction the guy is pointing, or the ball as it is coming? does jumping or crouching help? Trying to xloc the feck out o' there?

Next time I see one should I just do a hump dance and get it over with? (hah...be funny to see)

2. Tips on xlocs, I have gotten fairly skilled with practice, but is there anything you all notice from your practicing? I have pieced together that I can teletrain like a fiend, but have a diffult time landing once airborne. When I rack up a telefrag it is either luck, or a bad guy that doesn't move giving me the second or so I need to aim.

3. Tips on universal codes for flag runners? Any way to macro in sayings, or bind commands/info to keys?

I have seen a few suggestions but never see them in use. And of course typing while running to cap a flag is tough. Also codes for giving backup to a runner? Or is this something that comes with a clan? I so, how can I meet some of you fellow [PuF]ers,I like your style and would be happy to add the tag to my handle and work out with yas. The strategy and the teamwork bring me as much, if not more satisfaction than the kill count.

*********************


Now I am going to spend some time over the next few days with the bots and work on some new key bindings to improve team playing and spend some time just x-locing and combo shooting.


I you have any tips, let me know so I can test them out.

Thx

 

[Morety]

Dodging's a great tool for flag running. turn a bit to the left, dodge right. Turn a bit to the right, dodge left. Gets a bit of extra speed for a no x-loc run. It's a timing thing too. "Dodge and a one and a Dodge and a two...cha cha cha."

I use is sparingly in a firefight.

 

[Ineffectual]

Well, I've always had dodging turned on, so I hardly ever dodge into lava or whatever accidentally, but I can't seem to wrap my mind around when it's appropriate to dodge on purpose... I've seen players that do it constantly and I know most players don't do it at all... Anyway... I think maybe I need to corner some people that I've seen do it and beg for their tricks/reasons...



As for CTF binds... I pretty much have a set for every map... I use the textfile route, where you can set a number of keys to be specific to each map and at the beginning of a map, you type 'exec textfile.txt' and it loads those binds... (You have to set the binds like this 'SET INPUT key teamsay blahblahblah' - the SET INPUT is important.) Now the keys that I generally replace every game are the numpad and the left/right brackets because I do defense and those are flag carrier directions. One thing that's important for offense to note is which DIRECTION their binds are from... (ie: facing the enemy base or coming back from the enemy basee). Lots of flag carriers simply have "I have the flag" or "I need some backup" bound, but since those are voice binds you can't say them too often, so I've also seen people with "<--- I am here with the flag (and a beer)" bound or "I have the flag and am low on health".



'Fect

 

[Temporary Account]

As far as directions with binds go, all my Incoming and Flag carrier leaving binds are from a position in our base facing the enemy's base. These binds are to alert defenders of where they need to be/go, so it's important their orientation isn't screwed up. My "I'm leaving with the flag left/right/etc..." binds, however, are just the opposite, as I don't have time to think about reversing directions when I'm running with the flag.

I just have generic keybinds that I use for all maps, as follows (note, I don't know the actual speech commands offhand, so I'll use what you say)

=speech "Incoming" | teamsay [--Enemy ABOVE--] (Right/Left/Below)
=teamsay [--Leaving HIGH with flag--] (low/left/right)
=teamsay [--Enemy FC going HIGH--] (low/left/right)
=teamsay <===I'm here with the flag.
=speech "I need some backup" | <===I am here

This group of keybindings will get you through most situations. I also use GameCommander, so I don't actually have to hit any of these keys.

If you want to look at my actual .ini, the relevant portions are available at my clans website in the Roster section.

 

[DividedSky]

Yeah, Morety's right. For movement purposes, doding is mostly applicable as a flag carrier, since if you don't have the flag you'll most likely be TL'ing.

So 'Fect, considering you're a defensive player dodging for movement might not come in too handy if you seldom have the flag.

 

[UT Lobo]

good tips crusher,

we've fragged before and I have heard your bindings on the teamsay.

so do you bind the left/right/above stuff separately fromthe teamsay: 'Im coming with the flag'

I'll stop by your clan site, thx fer the tip.

 

[HuFlungzeDung]

Correct this impression I have, but if you dodge using the game's built in dodge function, do you not somersault at the same moment? If so, I very seldom see people dodging, they are all left/right side strafing, just like I do.

 

[DividedSky]

Depends on the model. I might be wrong, but I think the male/female models only somersault with a forward dodge, and not a left/right/back dodge.

 

[Arkive]

I use a dodging a *lot*, so I'll list my reasons, and I encourage others to add to it.

1) For the most part, I learned dodging when I was playing Instagib exclusively...because without dodging in Instagib, you might as well kiss your arse goodbye because someone with a reasonable level of skill will easily incinerate someone who is just jumping (for the most part...in Instagib). Also, when you do find yourself "dancing" with an opponent, it is a very good tactic to dodge every once in a while. That, with the occasional jump, pause, and strafe will help throw off their anticipation and give you a little bit longer to drop a few rounds into them...assuming you can keep your aim true while doing all of this. As someone else pointed out...hopping around and dodging is useless if you can't keep a bead on the opponent while you do it. Learning how to keep your aim while dodging is probably one of the hardest skills in my opinion to learn, one I'm still struggling with, but once learned will prove very helpful in battles.

2) This has already been touched on, but dodging to avoid taking damage also comes into play, especially when confronted with an opponent with the shock rifle. Now, it won't keep you from taking some damage, but it will definitely reduce the amount you incur. You see a shock ball coming at you, make a quick dodge and drop some ammo into them just before (or after) you dodge. This is also very useful when you feel someone's minigun nipping at you. A quick dodge is very useful to get the bead off you and give you a chance retreat or return fire.

3) Again, as a flag carrier, the dodge is also really useful for speeding up your trip back to base, especially on levels with sloped surfaces. Once I clear the peak on the middle of Face where the keg is...I can usually make two quick dodges and I'm right in front of my base because the dodge gives me much more forward momentum then a regular jump. Also works well on getting down stairs faster...or juking out your opponent on the getaway (i.e. running up one of the sloped edges on Bolwerk after grabbing the flag like you're gonna take the side exit, then dodge over the lava and make a beeline for the front door).

4) It's really good for coming around corners...especially on tight maps. It's also good for getting the jump on campers who are waiting for you to come around the corner. Just load up on some rockets before you reach the turn, dodge around the corner, and let them have it. Or, strafe around the corner, fire, and then dodge back out of the way of their fire.

BTW...just as a note, like DS mentioned, I also almost never forward dodge...I too turn 90 degrees then dodge using the opposite direction key if I want to dodge forward. Forward dodging just doesn't feel natural, however, left and right dodging comes very natural for some odd reason...go figure. Maybe my middle finger just doesn't like doing anything other then flipping my monitor the bird when DA or Cobra (or anyone) shove a rocket cluster up my hiney. Anyway...hope some other ppl will add to this, and ppl who aren't using the dodge, will decide to pick it up....it's a pretty damn useful function in my opinion.

Jeff

 

[5150]

Great thread!
This may not work for everyone,but if your really hardcore ie. play EVERY day for hours and hours.
Try not playing for a couple maybe even three days(I know it's hard).It can do wonders to un frazzle your brain and give you a fresh perspective.

 

[[MUTTS]ImagoX]

Gotta disagree...

In regards to this quote by Bodkin;

>>>The telefrag is a sucker shot. It generally only works if you don't see it coming. By sucker shot I mean it requires surprise. Not that the user is a sucker. -) <<<

I'm afraid I MUST disagree... I was playing in an open CTF server on Hydro against someone (don't remember the name, but he had a clan tag) that used the xlocator almost EXCLUSIVELY to move AND ATTACK!! He'd run accross the brigdes xlocating really really quickly (wich I knew how he did it so fast), and then he's run after me and telefrag me. He did it like *10 or 15 times* in a row, often wiping out 2-3 defenders in the courtyard- we could not touch him- all our shots missed him as he was porting all over the place. The trick seemed to be that he would fire the beacon and then teleport a fraction of a second later... it was really humbling to see.

In addition, I've certainly seen many good players out there that can do the "bunny hop" while killing at will- it's not just a tactic employed by people that feel they need to go on the defensive...