Re-deploy Screen ?

[Sir_Brizz]

Here's the problem with teleporting between deploys. You creating a situation where you can't retake deploys on many maps, especially in a competition but realy anytime you got some people on one team on voice comms with a minimum of coordination.

Sample scenario:
Garden, one gunner back on defense watching the front. someone calls they're taking red deploy. By the time they start hacking, they are sitting ducks for the gunner spawning right next to them.

This situation is essentially valid for Nakoja, Rampant, Garden, Alcazar from the stock maps, Hell, Asunder (somewhat), Wonderwood, Xaemia from the CBP, Cathexis, Wasteland, MistyMountain, Acheron from Alienpod pack just to name a few. It creates a huge game balance issue whereby you either need to lower hack times which bad because it wil severely lower chance to defend the deploy or you leave them the same and the deploys get held. XMP is not ONS, this really doesn't fit in the strategy of XMP in a way that can be easily balanced short of throwing out a good number of the stock maps(and maybe some of FMI's new ones, who knows) and making all new maps.

I don't understand how with the "use spawn time" and "only instant to unhackable deploys" this problem exists??? Please explain!

 

[Mort_Q]

You know, not that this isn't interesting and all, but this thread was meant to be about improvements to the deploy screen, not teleporting.

I know that they're intimately related, as I would assume you'd use the exact same screen and just disable the Class select but...

... actually there is no but. I guess I'll just change the topic.

 

[[LNS]Jubei]

blah blah blah....

... you obviously have an opinion. Don't hold back.

yup


thanks.

 

[PRG]

I don't understand how with the "use spawn time" and "only instant to unhackable deploys" this problem exists??? Please explain!

Same could be theoretically done in reverse, obliviating most of the need for defense.. Same issue, it's enough to need to really change game balance and/or change mapping styles towards a direction with much less freedom.

 

[[PE] Bender]

I really don t see a problem with the possibility to re-enter the Spawn Cycle. I can achive the same effect with a Suicide Binding and i don t give a damn for the -50 Points as long as it is a useful Tactic to get somewhere fast. All one needs is a Teamm8 who tells you something like "Redeploy @ Sunset Cave in 10seconds". If one can time Powerups at UT, it s quite easy to get the hang of timing Deploy Cycles at XMP. With the Game-Clock i don t even have to keep pressing F1 .
As far as i have understood it, you would´nt respawn at once at a Deploy Point. So all such a Feature would change is the -50 Points.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Same could be theoretically done in reverse, obliviating most of the need for defense.. Same issue, it's enough to need to really change game balance and/or change mapping styles towards a direction with much less freedom.

What do you mean, I'm confused?

I'm only talking about returning DIRECTLY to your base to defend the Arti, or try to rescue it. I'm not talking about going back out into the field. I don't even care about "re-entering the spawn queue". I just think that being able to somewhat quickly return to home base would be useful and make "2 minute" games pretty much non existant. Like I've said, the usefulness of it is pretty low for the following reasons:

1> You have to be NEAR a field deploy THAT YOU OWN to make it back fast enough to make a huge difference.
2> You cannot have an artifact in your possession.
3> You could add a very short spawn delay when teleporting, i.e. 1-2 seconds, to make it even longer before you get back.

Since unhackable deploys can't be hacked, there is no danger that "the point couldn't be hacked". And if you have to OWN and be NEAR a field point to even come back, it's going to take you a minute to get there, and teleport even in competitive play. Plus, since you can't teleport anywhere else instantaneously, it drops it's usefulness other than for "defense".

 

[[LNS]Jubei]

but still,
you have to admit it,
for an example
a gunner teleporting between deploys for defending base is
big firepower that's faster as a ranger in base on defense

what would that do to the xmp gameplay


think about it.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

erm?

wtf are you talking about? First, the gunner has to GET to a deploy, then he has to choose the one he wants to go to, and then (possibly) wait 1-2 seconds to teleport. PLUS it has to be to an UNHACKABLE deploy point. Where is the increase in speed over a ranger just running? Where is the increase in speed if you are just teleporting between unhackable deploys? Where is the increase in speed if you are going from a near base field deploy to inside the base?

I can't find one, that's why I think this particular approach would work.

 

[Fleury14]

Being able to teleport from the cloud delpoy to the arti room (alcazar), red cave to blue base (najoka), all in just a few seconds. You don't see an increase of speed?

Now if its between two unhackable deploys, I don't think this throws stuff off as much. My gut feeling is that allowing this kind of teleportation will make offense much harder, especially in scrims, but I can't say that for sure.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Being able to teleport from the cloud delpoy to the arti room (alcazar), red cave to blue base (najoka), all in just a few seconds. You don't see an increase of speed?

Now if its between two unhackable deploys, I don't think this throws stuff off as much. My gut feeling is that allowing this kind of teleportation will make offense much harder, especially in scrims, but I can't say that for sure.

There is an increase in speed from a FIELD deploy that you OWN to an unhackable point, but that's the point. However, the speed increase doesn't make THAT much difference in this case because, as I have said a NUMBER of times already, it loses it's speed by two means:

1> You have to be NEAR a deploy THAT YOU OWN, and
2> You can't have an artifact

Plus with the addition of 1-2 seconds wait before spawning, it would take even more time that would only slow you down. The ONLY reason this would be useful would be to either catch someone that was slow getting out of the base with an arti, or return to base to restock (at which point you then have to run out of the base again).

I'm definitely not saying that instant teleport should be between EVERY deploy. In the field, that would ruin the game. However, I don't see from HACKABLE to UNHACKABLE and UNHACKABLE to UNHACKABLE how that would change the gameplay any more than a TINY fraction of a little bit. In addition, no one so far has been able to give me any flawless reasons as to why it would cause a problem?

 

[T-Shinzon]

I loved XMP, and played it more passionately (for lack of a better word at the moment) for a very long time. It had the (near)perfect chemistry of complexity and style that I loved in games. I still do, but I can't find players. I basically would most prefer a direct port to UT2004 without fancy modifications. However, I can stand a few changes.

I realize that you have to be NEAR a deploy point you own. However on many XMP maps, there is usually one close enough that you can teleport back with plenty of time to spare. A gunner on offense would not be able to in time, but perhaps one that is doing free roaming will. However there are usually enough players on each team that the chances for teleportation advantages is pretty great. Basically, it will generally happen quite often in the larger servers. Also, it doesn't really take that long to choose a spawn point. I find myself doing it in less than a second. Less than half a second if I know the map. So quite honestly you can throw that factor away unless the player gets picky. Which will mostly only happen with the newer people.

Teleporting is basically the same as spawning when it is restricted by time. So why not just use suiciding? If teleporting has the same impact on score and energy etc. as suiciding, why implement it at all? With teleporting, the newer folks will use it more often, but XMP was about getting wise with experience and learning the tricks of the trade. If it was too newbie friendly, then anyone could know everything in short time! This would decrease the interest in for instance trying out new tricks. I remember when I first figured out how to get my boosters working so that I could jump higher, and then being excited as the possibility of actually navigating the Sunset Beach caverns properly arose. That was something that certainly made my XMP experience more engaging. When I think of XMP, I never thought of teleporting. That's when I think of ONS. It just seems too far off of the original, is what I'm saying.

On the idea of a spawning map: I guess it could work, as long as it stays relatively faithful to the gameplay of the original spawning system.

That's just my opinion, which I value sheerly because of the amount of time I spent on XMP and how much I loved every minute of it.

 

[Mort_Q]

Enough about the teleporting... what about the idea of including a MAP on the Deploy Screen !?

 

[T-Shinzon]

Enough about the teleporting... what about the idea of including a MAP on the Deploy Screen !?

Ok time to talk about the map screen. It could work, as long as it is not TOO descriptive (i.e. it tells where every teammate is and how much time all at once on a single map). The original as we know had the names of teammates near the spawn point and teammates using it in bold ONLY on the one selected. And it also showed the spawn time. All you need is the game timer to select the right deploy point! I go back to my previous arguement of XMP being a learning experience (god I sound like a corny teacher). If the spawn timers are annoying the heck out of you, learn to use the clock! Perhaps the map will give you the general location of the spawn point, but no information on other locations other than their relative location. Think of it being similar to the radar you're given with the directions of red and blue and where energy sources, etc. are located. However, that map DID NOT tell you WHO was spawning WHERE, and so on. All it told you was who owned the location basically. It added some light hide & seek gameplay that was quite interesting at times. Teams were less coordinated because of this, but who really seriously plays as that close knit of a team anyway? I've seen a few, but not the majority of players. Maybe in Korea they cooperate due to the structure of the place, but in the US people generally take a "Lone Ranger" approach.

My point is that the radarmap is fine with me, but it shouldn't be the Real-Time XMP Encyclopedia Brittanica. Or Harry Potter's marauder map thing. XMP is NOT Harry Potter.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I loved XMP, and played it more passionately (for lack of a better word at the moment) for a very long time. It had the (near)perfect chemistry of complexity and style that I loved in games. I still do, but I can't find players. I basically would most prefer a direct port to UT2004 without fancy modifications. However, I can stand a few changes.

I realize that you have to be NEAR a deploy point you own. However on many XMP maps, there is usually one close enough that you can teleport back with plenty of time to spare. A gunner on offense would not be able to in time, but perhaps one that is doing free roaming will. However there are usually enough players on each team that the chances for teleportation advantages is pretty great. Basically, it will generally happen quite often in the larger servers. Also, it doesn't really take that long to choose a spawn point. I find myself doing it in less than a second. Less than half a second if I know the map. So quite honestly you can throw that factor away unless the player gets picky. Which will mostly only happen with the newer people.

Teleporting is basically the same as spawning when it is restricted by time. So why not just use suiciding? If teleporting has the same impact on score and energy etc. as suiciding, why implement it at all? With teleporting, the newer folks will use it more often, but XMP was about getting wise with experience and learning the tricks of the trade. If it was too newbie friendly, then anyone could know everything in short time! This would decrease the interest in for instance trying out new tricks. I remember when I first figured out how to get my boosters working so that I could jump higher, and then being excited as the possibility of actually navigating the Sunset Beach caverns properly arose. That was something that certainly made my XMP experience more engaging. When I think of XMP, I never thought of teleporting. That's when I think of ONS. It just seems too far off of the original, is what I'm saying.

On the idea of a spawning map: I guess it could work, as long as it stays relatively faithful to the gameplay of the original spawning system.

That's just my opinion, which I value sheerly because of the amount of time I spent on XMP and how much I loved every minute of it.

I don't see how this has any relevance based on my arguments. Field deploys are one of the most coveted positions in the map (especially ones close to your base and close to the enemy base). It's not like you will disappear while teleporting until the actual teleport takes place. That gives you lots of time to die. Also, picking a deploy after you die is easier than picking a deploy when you are going to teleport. Teleporting comes with the desire to return to a specific location. In general redeploying comes with the desire to deploy faster not in a specific place (generally). I usually wanted to redploy in a specific place so I would wait for the spawn timer, but most people won't.

I really don't see a significatn change with adding both my method of teleporting and the orthographic deploy map. The deploy map should give you the same information your radar would except for the whole map...as if you were looking from a satellite with your units positions tracked by GPS or something.

 

[T-Shinzon]

I don't see how this has any relevance based on my arguments. Field deploys are one of the most coveted positions in the map (especially ones close to your base and close to the enemy base). It's not like you will disappear while teleporting until the actual teleport takes place. That gives you lots of time to die. Also, picking a deploy after you die is easier than picking a deploy when you are going to teleport. Teleporting comes with the desire to return to a specific location. In general redeploying comes with the desire to deploy faster not in a specific place (generally). I usually wanted to redploy in a specific place so I would wait for the spawn timer, but most people won't.

I really don't see a significatn change with adding both my method of teleporting and the orthographic deploy map. The deploy map should give you the same information your radar would except for the whole map...as if you were looking from a satellite with your units positions tracked by GPS or something.

I found that XMP was a much slower game than UT2004 or any of the other tournament games for that matter. Taking time at a field deploy would in most cases work successfully without death. It's not like there's always a guy hacking every deploy!

Teleporting just adds more complications to the game, and is redundant when score subtraction is included. When score subtraction is not included, teleporting changes the face of gameplay. That score subtraction has to be there to provide people with an interesting choice: Lose some points for the team, or walk back on foot you greedy point whore . So basically it is redundant and pointless.

 

[WolfmanK]

teleporting = teh bad

get off your ass and run.

Sorry Brizz your wrong on this one.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I'm going to bow out of this one because I have made the same points several times on both the orthographic redeploy map as well as teleporting and NO ONE HAS REFUTED any of my points. Everyone has basically said "[insert expletive here] You Brizz. Bad idea. Won't work. Will ruin gameplay. Will ruin game. Won't be fun. Won't work. Exploit. Too fast." The problem is that the way I've introduced them both wouldn't touch any of those excuses with a ten foot pole, and those are the only excuses people have come up with.

 

[T-Shinzon]

Yes we are a stubborn bunch.

BUT I think that we had some pretty valid points that you are overlooking. Either that or we just don't understand exactly what you're trying to convey.

Here's how I interpret your idea now that I look back:

You can teleport from any deploy point you own to any deploy point that is permanently yours (unhackable ones). However, you have to abide by the spawn time on that selected node, and you have to wait on your deploy point until then. Once the spawn countdown on that deploy point is zero, it teleports you from your current deploy point to the selected one.

Okay this idea actually makes the flow of the game much nicer for those who don't want to suicide because they can run into their local team deploy point and select another one. They don't HAVE to stay on the teleporting origin deploy point because they could memorize the time and come back, say, 8 seconds later and teleport then.

Okay I'm a flip-flopper. I'm now all for the teleports, because they will not affect the gameplay, etc. a great deal. I think the way most people have been interpreting this idea was a bit off in most aspects. I hope this clarifies it a bit.

 

[Mort_Q]

Again.

Checkbox: [X]: Teleporting Enabled

Just like the translocator in CTF, BR, and DM.

 

[T-Shinzon]

Again.

Checkbox: [X]: Teleporting Enabled

Just like the translocator in CTF, BR, and DM.

That works for me.