Re-deploy Screen ?

[[LNS]Jubei]

What do you mean if it ain't broken? The game has serious gameplay flaws (if you want to call them that) that were never reolved!

the gameplay flaws are getting taking care off, and the game doesn't have that serious gameplay flaws, just some glitches and exploits that are gone with utxmp.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

there you go then.

It did have serious gameplay flaws if you take all the expoits and glitches and add them together. Fortunately, they should be gone in UTXMP.

 

[MikeSobe]

I am against teleporting for fear that it changes the game way too much.

 

[Mort_Q]

It changes it... not at all. It's suicide-lite. Not that it matters.

 

[MikeSobe]

Mort do you even play XMP still? If so under what name?

 

[Mort_Q]

Not very often. I play as Mort_Q generally.

 

[Magwa]

Didn't they say somewhere that they where not going to add that in?

Imagine how hard it would be to hack deploys. All a team needs is someone porting between deploys killing anyone trying to hack them.

A map like sunset beach is hard enough to take back if you lose the deploys. It would be a lot worse if players could teleport between deploys

It would also mess up the deploy time system, as you could just spawn at the one with the least time and then teleport to the one you want to use.

Have to agree on this one most of the great games in XMP involved getting back certain deploy points, as pointed out sunset beach is a great example.If you could deploy and then choose to teleport to another one it would really mess with the gameplay,besides that the other team at times controlls most all deploy points and you would not have a choice anyway.how you choose to attack from the deploy point you have is a great part of the game.

 

[Ripperjack]

First I have to add that I never played XMP since by the the time I got it, servers were empty... especially at the times I could play. Add in that there's no bots and you can guess my experience. When I heard FMI was bringing it to 2k4 I was really happy because I bought Unreal2 because of XMP and thought I'd finally be able to play it. One of the ways I've learned to play is reading these and other forums about it and I usually don't say anything about what I don't know but maybe this thread needs a fresh look.

First, no one is reading Brizz's statements except Mort and probably myself. Empty your mind and read every word. Don't speed read or skip around.

Second, someone's reason for no teleportation was because they called it an exploit.. sorry but suiciding sounds like an exploit to me.

Third, if the bugs, glitches and flaws are fixed, shouldn't suiciding be taken out since the reason it was there was because of the bugs, glitches and flaws? Boy if that happens teleportation sure sounds good, eh?

Fourth, suiciding should not be an option in any game where it will help you or your team unless it means taking gunfire to let your teammate get away with the flag/arti/team symbol.. which isn't suiciding since you are killed by an opposing player, right?

Fifth, XMP is quite a bit confusing to noobie players like me. The only way to learn is to play and rely on others who play to help you learn. The documentation is very vague and when I fired it up, I had absolutely no idea what was going on.. spawn timers? .. picking classes? .. deployment nodes? What the hell? Those unanswerable questions mixed with no one to play with caused me to uninstall U2 altogether which is still missing on my hdd at this time.

Sure I ran around a couple maps, drove some vehicles to see the handling (noting how poor it was in comparison to vehicle games out now... though better than Halo) and I really hope FMI can and will improve the bad stuff.

As for an interface for the re-deploy screen, the best idea I've seen was the best of both worlds idea. You can even number the nodes to use a push of a button as well as clickable though tell all the mappers not to make more than 9 nodes per map unless you go to alt-# usage. Have each class selectable with a small description for the noobs: Gunner (speed + damage +++ hack ++.. but don't quote me on that... I don't really remember what exactly distinquishes each class).

It just sounds here that instead of coming together to make a game you love better and more enjoyable, you'd rather tear each other apart and scare new players away.. and that's just reading this, not even in the game playing to see how dificult it is.

-Ripperjack

"That which does not kill us only make us foolishly believe we are invincible"

 

[Magwa]

*If you find yourself relying on suicide binds and wanting to return to base quickly to save a arti etc that is just plain exploiting the game same as in Ut,UT2k3 and 4 suicide binds are IMO a loosers attemtpt to be good. If you have communication and position players who play their assigned position then you should have your bases covered if not then the other guy was better and you died to bad to sad it is a GAME.Play by the rules instead of trying to invent more to suit personel taste .same goes for teleporting just to save your a$$ lame to the max.

 

[communist]

Forget about suicide command being taken out - do you honestly think a game can / will ever be bugfree?! I dont really fancy the idea of being a ranger with ammo only left for the pistol and then getting stuck somewhere :|

I agree that deploy points shouldn be teleporters which allow you to teleport from DP to DP. Thats what 'normal' teleporters should do - and then again they shouldn bring you directly to a DP. Part of the game is to hack DPs, defend them (if you want to keep em) and that involves more than just teleporting there and checking the situation. Sure FMI can try it out - and if it sucks take it out... but then again you should beg to them - the majority here (and also FMI) seems to be again this feature. And dont give me this 'make it more accessible for new players'-crap. Sure we all want that but there is a limit as to what extent this should be done IMHO. There are better ways to make it more accessible, like a playable tutorial etc.

Have each class selectable with a small description for the noobs: Gunner (speed + damage +++ hack ++.. but don't quote me on that... I don't really remember what exactly distinquishes each class).

Sounds good to me

Also if you still want to check out XMP - the servers aint empty... its just the MasterServer running only a day in year. With qtracker you can connect to the few (and not empty) XMP servers left.

 

[Magwa]

Forget about suicide command being taken out - do you honestly think a game can / will ever be bugfree?! I dont really fancy the idea of being a ranger with ammo only left for the pistol and then getting stuck somewhere :|[end quote] snipped for space

that is what gunners are for to resupply you and also there are ammo supply stations running out of ammo is not a option suiciding to get ammo OMG that is lame .(not calling you lame personelly)

 

[NRK]

that is what gunners are for to resupply you and also there are ammo supply stations running out of ammo is not a option suiciding to get ammo OMG that is lame

What if there are no gunners in your team? And no supply stations around? Running with only health packs left to grab an arty is not the best choice. Of course, you can wait for someone to kill you, help someone to get lame kill (if we call killing players without ammo lame). We can also say that 3 vs 1 is lame, killing with gas is lame, camping is lame, turret farms are lame and so on. "suicide" command is documented and available in many unreal games, so its not exploiting. Suiciding to spawn in better location is the part of the game, you can even use your own nades to suicide (if you have any left), or fall to your death, etc. The fact that you want to spawn in location where you could help your team means that you care about team game, and any tactics, which help your team win the game are not lame.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

*If you find yourself relying on suicide binds and wanting to return to base quickly to save a arti etc that is just plain exploiting the game same as in Ut,UT2k3 and 4 suicide binds are IMO a loosers attemtpt to be good. If you have communication and position players who play their assigned position then you should have your bases covered if not then the other guy was better and you died to bad to sad it is a GAME.Play by the rules instead of trying to invent more to suit personel taste .same goes for teleporting just to save your a$$ lame to the max.

Tell the noobs who do it...that are in some of the top clans in all of the games you mentioned.

 

[Naib]

*If you find yourself relying on suicide binds and wanting to return to base quickly to save a arti etc that is just plain exploiting the game same as in Ut,UT2k3 and 4 suicide binds are IMO a loosers attemtpt to be good.

How is it an exploit? There is nothing to stop someone from shooting an alt shotgun or a grenade into the ground.

If you have communication and position players who play their assigned position then you should have your bases covered if not then the other guy was better and you died to bad to sad it is a GAME.

On a public server?

Play by the rules instead of trying to invent more to suit personel taste .same goes for teleporting just to save your a$$ lame to the max.

If suicide and teleporting are built into the game, I would say that the person is playing by the rules.

 

[communist]

I dont really fancy the idea of being a ranger with ammo only left for the pistol and then getting stuck somewhere :|

Read get stuck = cant move out of a map bug. When I cry 100 times "We need Energy" / "Get rid of these deployables"... and nooone listens... do you honestly think a gunner will take his time to get to me - give me the ammo so I can keep playing - on a PUBLIC server

 

[PhatAzz]

I have always seen respected and excellent players utilize suicide often.

Couple of examples, if you are gunner and trying to provide cover for the art runner and can't keep up, you suicide and clear the node or spawn where you think the runner will be at.

If you fall off of alcazar, it takes about 5 seconds to die. Those 5 seconds might be deploy time in the center.

You just capped an art at the node and need to go back on the offensive. Suicide and respawn closer.

I think it goes without saying, that unless you have a timer on your desk that goes off every say 18 seconds or whatever the deploy times are set up, you are taking a chance you might have just missed the most recent deploy and have to wait 18 seconds.

Anyhow, is suiciding an exploit in these cases? I don't think so. As much as an exploit as getting out of the raptor right before it hits the ground in alcazar. These are all aspects of the game people may be exploiting but definitely considered acceptable gameplay.

 

[Magwa]

What if there are no gunners in your team? And no supply stations around? Running with only health packs left to grab an arty is not the best choice. Of course, you can wait for someone to kill you, help someone to get lame kill (if we call killing players without ammo lame). We can also say that 3 vs 1 is lame, killing with gas is lame, camping is lame, turret farms are lame and so on. "suicide" command is documented and available in many unreal games, so its not exploiting. Suiciding to spawn in better location is the part of the game, you can even use your own nades to suicide (if you have any left), or fall to your death, etc. The fact that you want to spawn in location where you could help your team means that you care about team game, and any tactics, which help your team win the game are not lame.

Then mabye it would be a good idea for you to reivaluate how you run the map, i have never had a problem in XMP of tunning out of ammo never! if i am going to snipe from a concealed position rest assured it is close to a ammo resupply!

If you want to nade yourself to suicide fine LMAO you will look like the noob you are in a demo ,But it is part of the game so go ahead.But when people abuse the suicide bind like in CTF 2k4 UY 2k3 it is just plain sad and they call themselves good players LMAO what a joke.

See the problem is everyone wants to be where ever they want to be ,so they can be in on the action .OMG they are taking our arti i will suicide back to base to get the arti kill!!!!! you see it is very few people who can play CTF or a game like XMP and not care about their score they are TEAM players not ego freeks who have to be leet to be cool....

 

[Magwa]

I have always seen respected and excellent players utilize suicide often.

Couple of examples, if you are gunner and trying to provide cover for the art runner and can't keep up, you suicide and clear the node or spawn where you think the runner will be at.

If you fall off of alcazar, it takes about 5 seconds to die. Those 5 seconds might be deploy time in the center.

You just capped an art at the node and need to go back on the offensive. Suicide and respawn closer.

I think it goes without saying, that unless you have a timer on your desk that goes off every say 18 seconds or whatever the deploy times are set up, you are taking a chance you might have just missed the most recent deploy and have to wait 18 seconds.

Anyhow, is suiciding an exploit in these cases? I don't think so. As much as an exploit as getting out of the raptor right before it hits the ground in alcazar. These are all aspects of the game people may be exploiting but definitely considered acceptable gameplay.

Where is the In MY opinion?
1 Gunner should not trying to give cover to a running ranger impossible to keep up and then he is OUT of position and doing his team no good at all a good example of a individual player style.

2 You run the map to get back on offence and mabye hack a deploy or to on the way also snipe their arti runner if he happens your way in other words be a team player.

3 The penalty of acting like a noob and falling next time don't fall no problem.

4 you should die when jumping out of the raptor as well the terminal velocity should be transferred to your player model.

you just help to make my points about individual players tactics and suiciding is a poor excuse for skillz it is much much harder to get a team to use and play their positions to stay the course so to speak why cause they want their points ...the game would be better off with no points awarded to individual players at all but to just the team as a whole .

 

[NRK]

the game would be better off with no points awarded to individual players at all but to just the team as a whole

Sorry, but i dont see how removing scores would stop players suiciding.

 

[PhatAzz]

Where is the In MY opinion?
1 Gunner should not trying to give cover to a running ranger impossible to keep up and then he is OUT of position and doing his team no good at all a good example of a individual player style.

- I'm primary a gunner, I play offensive position often. You can ask other current players in the game. I can give decent coverage for the ranger and decently keep up with them to a point. And no a gunner is not out of position in the above scenario.
- Please Remember many good players now play more than one class, if they happen to be gunner doing an offensive against the opponents node to remove defense, then he very well might have to provide cover, or need to suicide and change classes. I think it would be pretty stupid to wait to die - that would be a good example of not being a team player - suiciding would be the appropriate thing to do - either for position or changing classes.

2 You run the map to get back on offence and mabye hack a deploy or to on the way also snipe their arti runner if he happens your way in other words be a team player.

- As a gunner, we often do play defensive positions, but not always (let me re-emphasize that). If you want to make the argument that people play positions for team good, a tech should do the hacking, the ranger should go steal some arts. It would be crappy team play if someone like pet snake or messiah who are excellent arti runners to expect them to hack a deploy take out a guy or two on the way back to stealing the art - they should be spending their time stealing arts.
- So please, don't tell me that nonsense about a team player doesn't suicide so they can "hack a deploy" and "snipe an arti runner". A good team player does, what he does best - if he steals arts - he steals arts.

3 The penalty of acting like a noob and falling next time don't fall no problem.

- You're even a bigger noob if you can't suicide out of the fall and loose the deploy point because after you click in from falling - you see you have 17 seconds to deploy and a Gunner hacking away with all the time in the world.(that's me btw after I knocked you off the platform with a rocket - see next point)
- Oh, and how many people who are not noobs fall on occasion while fighting on the top of alcazar? - People get knocked off all the time

4 you should die when jumping out of the raptor as well the terminal velocity should be transferred to your player model.

Okay, I actually agree with that point, but since you don't die, you gotta utilize when it's strategic. I think if you didn't because of this "best team player" attitude or "it's just not right to do it that way" attitude then you'd better rethink playing XMP anyhow.

you just help to make my points about individual players tactics and suiciding is a poor excuse for skillz it is much much harder to get a team to use and play their positions to stay the course so to speak why cause they want their points ...the game would be better off with no points awarded to individual players at all but to just the team as a whole .

Suiciding is an active and vital part of this game. People use it all the time. Whether or not you want to call it poor excuse for skillz or not - I really don't care. If you're on my team, you'll see me suicide and for good reasons and no it's not cause I have no skillz, it's part of my skillz.

XMP has been pushed to the brink by every player now. People hax it regularly and cheat often. It is a natural progression for this game to "exploit" all options in the game. It would be idiotic not to. A good team player that has also has skillz KNOWS when to suicide.

Anything from attaining different positions in the game to changing classes, suiciding is essential and a SKILL set that a good player needs.

If some guy with your last art in a raptor left you in the dust, you better suicide to get position for a node rush or to ambush the raptor - if not you're a noob.

Please digest and vomit this information at your leisure.