Originally posted by Stilgar
Claw, you missed my point, giving away 25% of your theoretical 4 million just proves that you have alot of money to give away, money which you garnered from a system of capitalism that's probably getting pretty close to classic economics. Classical economics founded most of what we know call the modern western world.
'classical economic' - nice words, little meaning. Say, we always knew the best way to deal with things eh? Nah. It's just the simplest approach.
And we got where we are with our hands and brains, and our social abilities... like, we don't just try to survive on our own, but help each other, and we don't keep our knowledge sectret, but teach it to everyone so following generations can build on it... we aren't intelligent to reinvent everything if we lost all knowledge right now... we accumulated all our knowledge over millions of years, and our first steps into using tools were more vital than the computer I am using now... we seem to advance faster now, but it's not capitalism that allows us to do it, but technology. Scientists are rarely capitalists, and seldom rich, even the famous ones. They gave us airplanes and CD players and TV, not the capitalists that put a region code on DVDs so we can't play a film released for the US market on a European DVD player... THAT is capitalism. IBM keeping RISC processor technology hidden (or trying to) so they could sell their older machines is practiced capitalism, too. Pursuing economic self-interest.
Our world is not entirely capitalistic - better be thankful for that.
Maybe I should correct myself. Capitalists don't
have to be bad I guess. Propably spirit can be a capitalist and still be a good person. EDIT: Just had a look at a pro-cap website. Now I see spirit really isn't a capitalist if he thinks rich people should be charitable. That idea contradicts the capitalistic idea.
I believe in forcing people to do right. You disagree? Then do, but don't tell me people may do what they want... they may not. There are rules, and that a rule doesn't exist yet is no argument against it. (Whoops - that one was directed against spirit's "there is no law" argument)
And hey, when did I say 25%? I recall mentioning 1% once. Stop laying words into my mouth that aren't mine.
Maybe we became what we are in spite of capitalism d00d...
Talking about some true and pure capitalists, whatever that means.... like they're brain dead, is just plain silly. Why are they intellectually handicapped ? who are the False capitalists ? 
Why is the truth behind an action a simple truth ? I think it's one of the most important and philiosphically interesting truths there is. It's indicative of the fundamental process of decision making that we all go through. What influences our will and our decisions can influence mans actions and therefore, his destiny.... is maybe what we consider to be the truth.
"The essential nature of capitalism is social harmony through the pursuit of self-interest. Under capitalism, the individual's pursuit of his own economic self-interest simultaneously benefits the economic self-interests of all others." -
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~shadab/capit-2.html#2
Spirit said rich people should give money to help, which doesn't help their economic self-interest, so he isn't a "true" capitalist.
The shoes on your feet, the computer you're typing on, all products of capitalism, why do you not consider yourself a capitalist ? ...If you do , I'm sorry for being mistaken.
Why redfine a subset of capitalism ie classic economics, and say that they're the bad capitalists and we're just pawns in their system, striving to make change and overthrow the evil doing capitalists ? Could this cynicism just hurt capitalism as a whole.
Blah. Sorry. Industry made my shoes, not capitalism. Sorry to say, but like Spirit you seem to think I deny having money, making money, enjoying luxury.. did you read my posts at all?
Capitalism isn't trade. Capitalism is an ideology saying that everyone should stife for his own interest only. No welfare needed... "All do their share, all get their share" is the ideal. But not all jobless are just lazy, and should you believe that you were an idiot.
It's not that I want to deny rich people to lean back and enjoy their wealth. I just want 'em to be a bit less like Uncle Scrooge.
Maybe capitalism... in its intended form... only influences, to an extent.... which certain ideologies are influential, and to what degree they can be influenced. Money is just a means of transfering power. With this in mind capitalists of any staus can strive to make change by utilising what power they have. I agree that this power is/has/will be abused, that's people for ya, but why look down on someone simply because they are a classical economist ? what about keynesian economists, surely there's room for change there as well.... ?
Nah. Capitalism is a socio-economic ideaology. It doesn't influence, it is the basis of a society.
I do not know keynesian and I do not like terms; it's especially difficult to understand English terms in a matter I am not too familiar with. If you want to tell me something express it so I can understand it without looking up the meaning of words I never heard of.
I do see where you're coming from, but we're all in this together now
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Where am I coming from? My father is a hedonist yaknow. I am a believing in social democracy. Not the corrupt political party but the ideology.
And I don't see what you mean by 'together' - [capitalist] I am a free individual and care only about myself [/capitalist]
Originally posted by mister_cope
i like computers. i like cd players. i like tv.
so i like capitlism to some degree too. whats so hard to understand there? lol
Capitalism doesn't give you all this. It doesn't prevent you from having it, but capitalism isn't responsible for you having it.
Our wealth is a result of our improved technology.
Our living standards have been improving constantly since we started using tools.
Capitalism is a non-abstract and simple to understand ideology kinda "everyone does his share, everyone gets his share"
People in China have computers too. And it's not communism that oppresses the people, it's powerful people. And those exist in our "free" world too.
