Personality test...

[Frostblood]

Bangout : if someone murders for $1000 then they deserve whatever they get. And anyway, in some situations a well placed $1000 could probably still outweigh someone being in jail for 20 years.

But these hypothetical examples are helping noone. The point is that in some situations, crime does more good than harm.

 

[BangOut]

I no argue. I dance. Whee. I hear polka tunes.

 

[Frostblood]

OMG! Bangout's been attacked!

 

[BangOut]

That's Claw during our passionate date. He is resting in seclusion before 'Round 2'.

 

[Claw]

final flame

Oh dear. I am a bit confused about you spirit... somehow your intellectual niveau seems to have dropped to less than 50% of your standard here.
In your posts, you managed to:

1. State things instead of arguing.
2. Lay words into my mouth.
3. Counter-argue things I never said.
4. Misunderstand, mutiliate and split my arguments, altering their meanings and then arguing against your own interpretaion rather than what I really said.
5. Be insulted by my outright rejection of you ideology, while you reject mine as well (so should I feel insulted too? Damn capitalistic pig )
6. Insult me 'cos you don't like my opinion.

Oh, and about my supposed bashing of holy, graceful America... Yes, America IS a symbol for capitalism... but still even this capitalistic nation isn't 100% capitalistic and you can be thankful for it.

Funny though how you managed to turn a discussion (only on my port, you failed to delivewr arguments so you didn't really discuss anything) social-political ideologies to a USA<-->"anti-american morons" flame war. I did not. I think there are some good things about the USA, only people tend to forget your failures.

Originally posted by The Spiritwalker
seems to me that you have a problem with people that have $$$ but don't help people.. it may not be "right" (...)

Damn right! I DO! And it is "not right" indeed.
But your "so what? You can't force them" attitude is simply unnerving. We make our choices... but some choices are bad, if you don't mind me saying so.
Btw, I had a look at the begin of this argument... I didn't say anything about forcing rich people to give away money... until you said, more or less, that them keeping their money was OK, which I strongly disagree with.
And while they have the right to keep their money I have every right to say they are selfish bastards.



what if I.. who has never had tons of cash.. win a huge lottery... and I keep EVERY PENNY for myself..if I have had a hard life and not a lot of the finer things.. then nobody would say a thing about it.., but if I earned all my $$$$ and was selfish.. that's bad, if I don't want to give the majority away?? that's kinda odd to me.. [/B][/QUOTE]
I believe many people who had a really hard life are very charitable indeed... but no matter. It's bad to be selfish, no matter how you got your money, keeping everything to yourself is selfish and you bad life is just an excuse, no more. It doesn't make it right. And since I got an idea about how some people earned their $$$ I despise them the more for it. And when did I say to give the majority away? Do you even read my posts I have to wonder. Read again:

Originally posted by Claw
I don't expect him to give up half his possesions... but f*** 1% of his wealth wouldn't be asked too much...

yeah..you guys are real charitable...you made the gas almost painless.. and the rooms real big so the jews could go with their friends.. given a choice of being an amercian or german..I would be an amercian.. even if we did butcher the natives..

I did write an appropriate remark, but then, I can control myself. You know your history I guess.
I found that "even if we did butcher the natives" sweet though.

for the most part hard work IS rewarded....

So Europeans don't work hard? Well, Americans are famous for being arrogant to a point a new word has to be invented so I ain't overly surprised by your answer. [nasty remark removed 'cos I am a nice person]
Besides, the wealth of your nation may have a li'll bit to do with the wast land and the huge amounts of yet untapped resources you found there... [ANOTHER nasty remark removed]

but that's just not true.. we DON'T need to help.. I think that it's great when people help others.. no matter how little it's just great..

*cough* What should I say? How did you manage to so completly misunderstand what I said? I am talking about society itself. Humans are like a pack of wolves. We always worked together, "helped each other"
The idea of a society is that everyone gives what he can to increase everyone's chance of survival... a very strong wolf won't leave his pack just 'cos he can live on his own... he may found a new pack, but not completly on his own...
And I wasn't talking about your primitive understanding of charity here... charity is a principle of behaviour, not just the actions you associate with it. The state is a charity institution.

and that's the problem.. you shouldn't have a government that says what it's peoples ethics should be..

It doesn't (in this case) and I said so. You CAN read right? And a constitution is a people's thing. It expresses what the people think. Just get it into your head that we have different standards than you.
And I am arguing in favour of those standards. That's what this argument about: social ideology. Didn't you notice?
Morals are a society's dos and don'ts, our beliefs of right and wrong. And laws are just a means to an end... they are to regulate social interacion and to force the people's opinion about right and wrong on the individual. Like, "Thou shalt not kill" is a belief not everyone cares for. But we force those who don't to abide by our moralty. We force them because we think we're right and they are wrong.
Laws are meant to force the people's will on individuals who see thing differently... and our constitution just expresses the people's moralty, to emphasize how important it is to us.

I never asked the question.. and I am proud to be a capitalist..

"what if I didn't belive in the "charity" that I was being required to give to?"

question or not?

Be whatever you want to be, and be proud if you like. But don't state it like the ultimate and obvious wisdom when I try to argue.
Arguments make a discussion and you have lacked badly in that department.

It just seems to me that you need to learn that just because a billionaire dosn't give what they can "afford" dosen't mean that what they do give isn't wanted..

There is nothing to learn. You just state thing that are. I am talking about ethical principles, something which seems to be alien to you.

And giving someone who's thirsting just a trickle so he doesn't die, but not enough to still his thirst even though you could isn't really very nice... not if there's a well around and you have enough for everyone.

and that is your problem.. depending on the ethics of the person giving time/money.. that is what they want to do.. and you saying that they should do more..when they don't have to do ANYTHING, just belittles the efforts of those who choose to do "something"
no matter how small.. to say to the Gates/and other rich peoples.. "hey you need to do more"..is just plain wrong..and I would even say selfish

Nonsense. Ethicality isn't "doing what one wants"
Hedonist

WRONG.. taxes are what is needed to keep this country afloat..
yes some of our taxes do go to charity.. but prolly less than 1%..

You miss the point... again. Keeping this country afloat is what I mean by obligatory donations. Rich people don't need countries, police or public highways. They can polly have their own police and streets, cities for their workers even. And that is partially true already...
I've said it before and don't mind too repeat it... you gotta get rid of your primitive associations. Donation isn't just giving money to some charity organisaion... well, it is. And the government is such an organisation. The governemnt takes money from everyone and does something everyone benefits from. Only the really rich people usually benefit less... that's why they make every effort to pay less taxes... if what the governemnt does was good for them, why not put another 100$ on top to help the government?

if they own the street that they.. then that is their progrative

*sigh*I didn't deny that. This argument belongs to the one above, they are in fact one. I was talking about necessity d00d... poor people have to rely on the government to provide streets, rich people can build their own.

Originally posted by The Ghostwalker
and where are you posting from..
please tell me you are not somewhere other than america..
Cause anyone that really thinks that america is great, and is a not US citizen really makes me want to hurt them..
If you like this country..fine.. go there.. but just spouting off "U-S-A" just shows what an immature stupid little sh!t are...state your "reasons" you little turd..or shut up... you can't handle heat.. you can't even handle your own penis without your homophobe daddy asking for pointers..
little boys like you need to have your spleen removed, by way of your left nostril...

A word on the capitalism:

I know only one place where such a thing as pure capitalism ever existed. It's a *cough*point in history called "Industrial Revolution" and from what I know it was propably the worst time in history.
Dishwashers didn't become millionaires there. Dishwashers started working as kids, working for 12+ hours a day for minimal pay, never went to school, and didn't have a bed of their own usually. Even adult workers sometimes couldn't afford even a room of their own, sometimes having to share their a room with other people.
Most workers were in a bad physical condition, badly nourished and living in poor hygienic circumstances.
There was no pubic welfare, insurance or education.
Many people were unemployed, and you could loose your job for the slightest reason such as being late for work, not working hard enough or being sick.
So if you got sick you better had someone who cared for you, since without job you couldn't afford a bed or food.
Most people didn't earn enough to care for someone else but themselves, so in poor worker families husband and wife both worked, and the kids as soon as they were old enough to do so.

And this is what pure capitalism brings us. Humans being nothing but tools, to be used, replaced if better are available, and thrown away if they are broken. Fortunately, even the USA are not an entirely capitalistic nation.
Of course, the age of Industial Revolution ended in... guess... revolution. Bloodshed. The people had enough. And it can happen again, will happen again, because we (humans in general) can't live up to our ethical standards. It isn't the social ideals like Communism or Democracy that fail, it's the humans. Because there are many people who just don't give a damn.

So, welfare is an obligation. Not an obligation forced on you by some abstract ethic, but understanding of necessity. You lack badly in the understanding part, but maybe you'll live long enough to take the lession. Since most people don't understand it, the lesson is given repeatedly throughout history. Just wait.


read this too:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1844engels.html
http://65.107.211.206/victorian/history/workers1.html
examples of what undisputed capitalism brings us
thankfully, the USA not only have capitalism, but also democracy as a counter-weight


Now I am tired of arguing... small wonder, I argued enough to make up for your lack of arguments, loosy capitalists

 

[Frostblood]

Who brought the holocaust into the discussion? It was 50 years ago. I dont see what it has to do with this in the slightest...unless you think emotional blackmail is a good arguing tool.

 

[SpiritWalker]

who.. that depends on your view point.. I did in response to the idea that germans are charitible

Claw...
keep your eyes on this spot..
I have rebuttle for your last post coming..
BTW I do respect your opinions..but..
(soon to come)

 

[Frostblood]

My final viewpoint :

People don't have a right to cause harm to others, activley or passivly. They dont have a right to deny people help, especially if they're bank accounts wouldnt even notice the difference and the only reason they have the money is because they are better at kicking a ball or prancing around to a song they didnt write, or better at exploting they're way to the top of the pile. The people that have money today are generally not the people that deserve it. But that isnt the point. People dont have a right to hoard money, whether or not they "earned it fair and square", and if someone is intent on doing so then a) they are very selfish and b) if i had the power to, i simply wouldnt let them. Claw is right to have a problem with such people.

As for the holocaust, in 1945 the germans clearly wernt charitable. Let's not forget that america didnt even join the war until they got forced into by the japanese : had they rushed to the aid of Britain and France immediatly the holocaust might not even have happened. But this is all meaningless because that was 50 years ago.

 

[BangOut]

My final viewpoint:

Sitting at a chair, facing my monitor.

 

[Rukee]

Did I mention I`d like to pay off all my familys detbs if I won the lottery??

 

[Claw]

Originally posted by Rukee
Did I mention I`d like to pay off all my familys detbs if I won the lottery??

You're propably the most reasonable here
.

 

[Claw]

Originally posted by The Spiritwalker
who.. that depends on your view point.. I did in response to the idea that germans are charitible

Claw...
keep your eyes on this spot..
I have rebuttle for your last post coming..
BTW I do respect your opinions..but..
(soon to come)

@Spirit: You wanna make me loose control and bring those answers I censored in my final flame?

I recently discussed the topic with someone who convinced me that I was partly wrong. He might convince you of your wrongness, but he can't be bothered. Too bad I am just not good enough to enlighten you.

But cut the anti-German B$ out, I can accuse you of enough evilness of your own, or rather, I can't 'cos you didn't do anything personally, just as I didn't, but both our ancestors did great evil and can never really expect forgiveness, only hope for it.
I just don't believe you have the guts of implying you people's evil was "less bad" than ours. That does say something about you; nothing good though.

As for respect of my view point; maybe you should stop telling me "I had just to learn" like I would tell a little child that just can't understand yet. Doesn't show much respect. Not any, actually.
I also don't want to talk about capitalism again. Hence 'final flame'

 

[SpiritWalker]

but still even this capitalistic nation isn't 100% capitalistic and you can be thankful for it.

Yeah.. your right.. and maybe if you were a little bit more of a capitalistic country.. maybe you wouldn't have your government telling you what to do with your $$ and time..

State things instead of arguing.

why argue when I know that I am right about "it"

Insult me 'cos you don't like my opinion.

don't worry.. I insult EVERYONE given enough time

I think there are some good things about the USA, only people tend to forget your failures.

I think not..some of us yes..they do.. but for the most part... no.. And at least we aren't ashamed of OUR failures

.. I didn't say anything about forcing rich people to give away money... until you said, more or less, that them keeping their money was OK, which I strongly disagree with.[\b]

I hope that you never have a crap load of cash then.. Cause if you do .. by your own words.. it will be ok for the government to take some.. The whole idea that you think that it's bad for me to keep that which is mine I find very strange...

And while they have the right to keep their money I have every right to say they are selfish bastards.

That's not what you said.. just look up..
call me a selfish bastard.. what do I care .. I have been called worse by better...

It's bad to be selfish, no matter how you got your money, keeping everything to yourself is selfish and you bad life is just an excuse, no more.

I never said that I had a bad life.. just not oodles of cash laying around to light my cigars with.. but I think that I get your meaning..


And since I got an idea about how some people earned their $$$ I despise them the more for it. And when did I say to give the majority away?

So it's NOT the $$$ you hate.. it's the way that the $$ was obtained??.. OK maybe you didn't say the majority.. but it's wrong to force anybody to give up something of their's just because somebody else dosn't have it.

Do you even read my posts I have to wonder. Read again:Originally posted by Claw
I don't expect him to give up half his possesions... but f*** 1% of his wealth wouldn't be asked too much...

I have to wonder, who are you to decide what's enough.. when it comes to someone else's money/house/whatever

So Europeans don't work hard? Well, Americans are famous for being arrogant to a point a new word has to be invented so I ain't overly surprised by your answer.

I never said that Europeans don't work hard.. just that hard work is mostly rewarded.. I know that some Germans work hard.. history proves that.. now the French on the other hand..


Besides, the wealth of your nation may have a li'll bit to do with the wast land and the huge amounts of yet untapped resources you found there... [ANOTHER nasty remark removed]

So if your land is not that wealthy.. then.. umm move.. do get made that the peoples that invaded this land found all sorts of fun stuff to play with.. You guys exploited quite a bit of your wealth when you had it.. and I'm sure that you will again one day..

I am talking about society itself. Humans are like a pack of wolves. We always worked together, "helped each other"
The idea of a society is that everyone gives what he can to increase everyone's chance of survival... a very strong wolf won't leave his pack just 'cos he can live on his own... he may found a new pack, but not completly on his own...

umm.. wolf packs often turn on the weakest of the pack.. or the old and frail.. ..and "WE" as a race are more often than not.. always looking to exploite the weaknesses in others..

The idea of a society is that everyone gives what he can to increase everyone's chance of survival...

That is a great idea.. but not very realistic..

And I wasn't talking about your primitive understanding of charity here... charity is a principle of behaviour, not just the actions you associate with it. The state is a charity institution.

My privitive understanding of charity is this:
Charity is helping those that either at the moment or for the forseeable future need some type of aid.. NOT helping deadbeats/loafers live a better life than their laziness (?) allows..

And a constitution is a people's thing. It expresses what the people think. Just get it into your head that we have different standards than you.

of that I am well aware..

Morals are a society's dos and don'ts, our beliefs of right and wrong.

Wrong.. morals are an INDIVIDUALS beliefs of right and wrong.. I don't care what society says I should or should not think/belive.. and neither should you..

And laws are just a means to an end... they are to regulate social interacion and to force the people's opinion about right and wrong on the individual. Like, "Thou shalt not kill" is a belief not everyone cares for. But we force those who don't to abide by our moralty. We force them because we think we're right and they are wrong.
Laws are meant to force the people's will on individuals who see thing differently...

and your point???


Be whatever you want to be, and be proud if you like. But don't state it like the ultimate and obvious wisdom when I try to argue.
Arguments make a discussion and you have lacked badly in that department.

excusssee me for failing to raise myself to your "standards"..

I am talking about ethical principles, something which seems to be alien to you.

don't you really mean the MY ethical principles are alien to you...

And giving someone who's thirsting just a trickle so he doesn't die, but not enough to still his thirst even though you could isn't really very nice... not if there's a well around and you have enough for everyone.

I am not talking about life and death here... I am talking about the right to do with what is "mine"..or the super rich doing with their $$$ what they want..


Look.. here is my point.. and maybe some food for thought..

Here in the Good Ol USA.. which is the best country in the world.. we have allllll of these right.. the right to do this.. the right to do that.. and we have all the these rules that make sure that are rights are kept safe..
But what we ALSO have is people that think that they have the right to be LAZY.. to be HANDED everything..to suck off the tit of those of us who aren't lazy, who aren't afarid to work for their money, and are generous enough to help those of the people that really DO need a hand every now and again..( I should know.. I/my family was one at one time)..
We have peoples that think that it's ok to "work" the system for their own benfit.. and they don't even care about the people that really do need a hand every now and again..

So in answer to your statment that you make my arguments for me due to my lack of them.. I didn't try to make a lot because it's like trying to explain an orgasm to a virgin.. I have been to Germany.. seen the way people live (to a degree) and been to a few other places.. and I would rather take the Amercian way of life.. with all of our selfish millionaires than a counrty that is so ashamed of it's past that there are laws that prohibit the display of such history..
And yes I/we are ashamed of the way that we treated the Japanese Amercians during WWII but none of those imprisioned were murdered

 

[BangOut]

Originally posted by Claw
But cut the anti-German B$ out

Why should we?

We American BBSers put up with crap that no other nationality has to deal with

 

[Frostblood]

BangOut : Yes, but at least the USA-bashers are making a point about today. Whether you agree with it or not, which i dont, thats far better than saying "you're not charitable...because of the holocaust!".

Spirit : Charity doesn't cater for layabouts...that has nothing to do with it. I have never heard of a "help american tramps" chairty, let alone a "help american unemployed" charity. It goes to people who are dying for lack of clean water or food...24,000 dead a day...there is no excuse for saying "charity is pointless", and while helping lazy American welfare state abusers is ridiculous, thats not what its about at all...it's not even about America for the most part.

 

[lucifix]

if GOD was such a good guy he wouldnt let those poor children starve in the first place. thats one of the many things that turn me against the god is great bullshit..........

 

[lucifix]

wow i agree with spiritwalker!?!?

morals are an INDIVIDUALS beliefs of right and wrong.. I don't care what society says I should or should not think/belive.. and neither should you

thats why i say all christians can suck my dick......

 

[Claw]

argh... can't stop... someone close this thread already...

Originally posted by The Spiritwalker
Yeah.. your right.. and maybe if you were a little bit more of a capitalistic country.. maybe you wouldn't have your government telling you what to do with your $$ and time..

WTF are ya talkin? Noone tells me what to do with my time ('cept my boss, but then, he pays money for my time so I gess he has a right)

why argue when I know that I am right about "it"

Yeah, right. Why talk anyway? Hint: Don't.

I think not..some of us yes..they do.. but for the most part... no.. And at least we aren't ashamed of OUR failures

Small wonder ppl keep repeating their mistakes... you have ervery right to be a li'll ashamed.

I hope that you never have a crap load of cash then.. Cause if you do .. by your own words.. it will be ok for the government to take some.. The whole idea that you think that it's bad for me to keep that which is mine I find very strange...

B$. I never said so. Show me. Unproven statements is all I get... any can do that.
Besides, the government will take some anyway. Called taxes.
I don't seem to find my own words... why don't ya just quote me?

That's not what you said.. just look up..
call me a selfish bastard.. what do I care .. I have been called worse by better...

They were propably right.

I never said that I had a bad life.. just not oodles of cash laying around to light my cigars with.. but I think that I get your meaning..

I was referring to a hypothetical situation you brought up... small wonder your posts are so incoherent - you don't seem to know WTF we're talking about half the time.

So it's NOT the $$$ you hate.. it's the way that the $$ was obtained??.. OK maybe you didn't say the majority.. but it's wrong to force anybody to give up something of their's just because somebody else dosn't have it.

Attitude. I don't judge people by wealth or intelligence.

I have to wonder, who are you to decide what's enough.. when it comes to someone else's money/house/whatever

Everyone has his opinion about right and wrong abd correct behaviour, and judges other people by it... I merely said rich people give s li'll loose change and then want to explain charity to us, and I found that sickening... that was the original statement. I never said everyone should legally have to pay an extra 1% for charity. I said they should do it, in the meaning it's "the right thing" showing "the right attitude" as I see it.
You don't have to agree, but you keep expressing how obviously wrong it is.
But do you really believe society should tolerate everything?
What if someone believes in a kind of "Nazi Darwinism" and thinks he's right to use force to reach his goals? Who are you to say he may not, if you're so utterly tolerant? Where do you draw the line?

So if your land is not that wealthy.. then.. umm move.. do get made that the peoples that invaded this land found all sorts of fun stuff to play with.. You guys exploited quite a bit of your wealth when you had it.. and I'm sure that you will again one day..

Actually, it is. You streets aren't cleaner, your public transport isn't better, and your education system is infamous rather than famous. I was in the USA too, and have talked to some ppl... their life didn't seem extraordinarily alien to me.

As for the wealth exploit... I was talking about natural resources. And We lived here for a looong time, slowly draining our land of resources and it's indeed quite crowded here.
We never were in the situation fo being presented with such a treasure like you found in the USA, with the means to exploit it. Our wealth has been exploited by the Roman Empire already, yaknow. Many people fed over a long time... kinda strain for the land. You may understand in a few centuries. You don't realize how young your nation is, an what that means for you.

umm.. wolf packs often turn on the weakest of the pack.. or the old and frail.. ..and "WE" as a race are more often than not.. always looking to exploite the weaknesses in others..

Nah, they abandon the "useless" but they don't kill their own kin usually.
And while you're right, what is your point? We are bad, accept it? We can decide ourselves how bad we are. That's freedom. I'd rather be good, and think others should try too, instead of giving in to their natural faults. That is ethical. Be an animal if you like, but don't complain if I treat you like one then.

That is a great idea.. but not very realistic..

It's the basis of society and has ensured our survival over 2 million years, especially when we actually had to fight for it.

But maybe... the reason why the idea is so unrealistic... is peple who think like you... so it's all your fault.

My privitive understanding of charity is this:
Charity is helping those that either at the moment or for the forseeable future need some type of aid.. NOT helping deadbeats/loafers live a better life than their laziness (?) allows..

You miss the point again. Public streets, canalization, schools, police... all charity. Rich people could build their own cities with their own police and their own streets. And you could live like the people in the 19th century as describen in the link I posted.

of that I am well aware..

What you don't seem to be aware of is the post I replied to, which stated quite the opposite of "what you are well aware of" ...that we "shouldn't let the state tell us what to do" when I was talking about our constitution.

Wrong.. morals are an INDIVIDUALS beliefs of right and wrong.. I don't care what society says I should or should not think/belive.. and neither should you..

I see. Moralty is what I was talking about then. Although I don't understand the relevance of "morals" as the word "ethics" describes an INDIVIDUALS beliefs of right and wrong already. Do you make an effort of confusing other people by giving similar words different meanings?
And don't tell me my meanings are wrong... morals origins in the latin word mores = customs so it should logically mean the same as the German aequivalent Moral - but it doesn't for whatever reason.

and your point???

Laws don't make right and wrong, but are an institutionalized expression of moralty. So you cannot use a law in an argument about moralty. Not all moral standards are expressed as laws, but that doesn't mean they are irrelevant.

excusssee me for failing to raise myself to your "standards"..

But you made it sound quite the other way round... so I should be the one to use irony...

don't you really mean the MY ethical principles are alien to you...

Blah. I was talking about your seeming inability to differ between general principles and specific situations. Like you cannot see how taxes follow the idea of charitability, although I am sure I expalined the elationships somewhere, and all I asked agree with that, even if they disagree with my anti-capitalistic opinions.

I am not talking about life and death here... I am talking about the right to do with what is "mine"..or the super rich doing with their $$$ what they want..

But it is. You can't jmust pick out the bits you like and talk about them. You must accept the fact that egoistic people willingly let other people die.

Here in the Good Ol USA.. which is the best country in the world.. we have allllll of these right.. the right to do this.. the right to do that.. and we have all the these rules that make sure that are rights are kept safe..
But what we ALSO have is people that think that they have the right to be LAZY.. to be HANDED everything..to suck off the tit of those of us who aren't lazy, who aren't afarid to work for their money, and are generous enough to help those of the people that really DO need a hand every now and again..( I should know.. I/my family was one at one time)..
We have peoples that think that it's ok to "work" the system for their own benfit.. and they don't even care about the people that really do need a hand every now and again..

I can see your rights got legal limitations...
And there are other limitations besides law which are at least as strong and force people to do things that they don't want to... like, having 2 jobs and no time for their own kids... we got laws that are meant to prevent that... and that's OK 'cos we don't need one guy working from dusk 'till dawn while another is job- and homeless.
And I am sick of you repeating the "laziness" argument. Yes, some people exploit the welfare system, just as some rich people exploit their power... but the mass would rather work... but I believe a man can expect to be able to live from a job... and not having to rely on welfare although he's working 8 hours a day... that is sick. The state has to pay 'cos the companies don't want to pay a man enough to live...

So in answer to your statment that you make my arguments for me due to my lack of them.. I didn't try to make a lot because it's like trying to explain an orgasm to a virgin.. I have been to Germany.. seen the way people live (to a degree) and been to a few other places.. and I would rather take the Amercian way of life.. with all of our selfish millionaires than a counrty that is so ashamed of it's past that there are laws that prohibit the display of such history..
And yes I/we are ashamed of the way that we treated the Japanese Amercians during WWII but none of those imprisioned were murdered

Blahblahblah "I am just so much cleverer, you imbecile just have to take it from me" blahblahblah

And that you aren't ashamed only shows how arrogant you are and that you don't learn...
Shall I go on at lenght how you started your history of gaining wealth by exploiting others? Practically stealing your whole country from the natives? The "hard work" you refer to being someone else's really? *cough*slaves*cough*
My ancestors did evil and we are ashamed. Your ancestors did evil and you show no shame at all.

I've heard enogh.

 

[Frostblood]

if GOD was such a good guy he wouldnt let those poor children starve in the first place. thats one of the many things that turn me against the god is great bull****..........

Hmmmm...thats very true...but it doesnt make me not believe in God...but it does make me think very hard about it. There's enough food for everyone in the world and ( outside wartime ) there always has been. The problem is that the people who own it dont want to share it - we're the ones at fault. God gave us free will and this includes the ability to be horrendously selfish...but if he hadnt then he might as well have not made us at all...it is a very good question though...

Spirit : A murderer might think what he is doing is right. Bin Laden was convinced of it. He thought it was morally fine to kill 7000, but no-one in there right mind would let him do it again on the grounds that "who are we to say what he can do?". This is the same thing...it just so happens that it is legally right; but that doesnt mean its morally right. The argument that we shouldnt try and interfere with other peoples lives simply doesnt hold up, unless your an ultra-anarchist.

 

[SpiritWalker]

Originally posted by Frostblood
Whether you agree with it or not, which i dont, thats far better than saying "you're not charitable...because of the holocaust!".

I made that comment because of some bashing that Claw did towards my counrty... Truth hurts

Spirit : Charity doesn't cater for layabouts...that has nothing to do with it. I have never heard of a "help american tramps" chairty, let alone a "help american unemployed" charity. It goes to people who are dying for lack of clean water or food...24,000 dead a day...

and my issues with that is that there are soo many more people that just don't want to help themselves.. and live off of welfare.. no I don't want to help them.. the ones that truly are in need .. great.. let's help them..