Michael Capps Replies To Greg Costikyan's Accusations Of Overworking Employees

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

elmuerte

Master of Science
Jan 25, 2000
1,936
0
36
42
the Netherlands
elmuerte.com
And elmuerte is wrong. ;)
What? and no tag?

Just because someone has an army background doesn't mean they can't use civilian scales. With few exceptions, in everyday life the US runs on 12-hour time. News comes on at 5 AM, Noon, 5 PM, 6, and 11, not 05:00, 12:00, 17:00, 18:00, and 23:00.

Never said they can't, I just assumed that Capps wouldn't. The picture I have of Capps in my mind is the freak love child of the game industry with the army. This pictures was actually caused by an old interview with Capps on how to run a game studio which went into mixing creativity and flexibility with structure and discipline. This interview actually sort of strengthens this mental picture. (So I'm not crazy, or at least, not because of that). Also, I don't have an army background, and I only use 24 hours clocks, I use the Japanese date format with full year numbers (i.e. YYYY-MM-DD: 2009-04-24), etc. For the simple reason that I hate ambiguity. There is only once place for ambiguity, and that is in humor.

Coders are just another type of artist.
Indeed we are. Great programmers write great executable stories.
(yes, I compared writing programs to writing books)
 

xear0

New Member
Jan 30, 2009
83
0
0
damn, all those long hours yet UT3 still managed to come out as a big pill of horse poop.
 

Angel_Mapper

Goooooooats
Jun 17, 2001
3,532
3
38
Cape Suzette
www.angelmapper.com
Actually, I'm not even sure what you mean.
What Sjosz said:
Either a hard worker or a stick-to-the-40hour-week person. They are not mutually exclusive.

[GU]elmur_fud;2284599 said:
yeah well far better then stocking groceries for a living ;p
Steak is better than spam, but I'm still going to complain if someone takes a dump on it.

damn, all those long hours yet UT3 still managed to come out as a big pill of horse poop.
And this is really my biggest complaint. Yes, I'm passionate about game design, but at the end of the day this is just a job. I'm working on someone else's project, with deadlines, sometimes screwy project management, and no guarantee that it won't end up a complete pile no matter how hard I work.

Twenty years from now I'm not going to wish I had put in more time at the studio. While you have me, I'm going to work my ass off, but I'm not going to stay here any longer than I need to to get the job done. I find it really insulting that Capps is implying that people who don't work overtime are somehow unmotivated or not passionate about what they do. Here's a flip for him: What if I said that I thought people who DID work overtime were too incompetent or lazy to get their work done in 8 hours?
 

Hyrage

New Member
Apr 9, 2008
635
0
0
I agree.

And what if the guys at the top aren't able to make the right decisions or do not understand the Video Game Production well enough to optimize it correctly (wasting more our time than anything else).
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
I find it really insulting that Capps is implying that people who don't work overtime are somehow unmotivated or not passionate about what they do. Here's a flip for him: What if I said that I thought people who DID work overtime were too incompetent or lazy to get their work done in 8 hours?
Yes? Yes!

I've worked for huge companies and small companies. Right now I'm working for a 4 person studio, and I have NEVER had a crunch here. One reason surely is that without all the red tape of corporate (or large small business) you can get more done in less time. Additionally, the owners seem to have a good idea of how long things take and are able to easily push out deadlines if they need to because they don't overpromise on deadlines.
 

-Entropy-

New Member
Feb 14, 2008
27
0
0
DISCLAIMER: I am obviously biased here, on several different levels.

When Mike mentions "the platform" he's using a very standard industry phrase to describe the hardware the game is offered on. Implying anything otherwise is really just silly. It's not like he over-emphasized ("THE platform" - as in "t3h be-all-end-all of g4m1ng pl4tf0rm5!!!") or implied some uber status to Xbox ("The Platform" (capital T, capital P) and a chorus of angels sang in the background). Replace the word "platform" with "Xbox 360" if it makes you happy. It's no different than saying you're going to the store or out to the movies.

As for work here in the offices: yes we look for passionate people, and there ARE plenty of folks who work an 8 hour day, do phenomenal work, and are considered valuable employees who make important contributions. Performance is not measured by amount of time spent in the office. Passion for what you do is something completely different.

Obviously, passionate people tend to be more invested and self-motivated. If you read the interview (and not just hand pick inflammatory quotes) you'll see that WE (the staff) are the ones who push Mike to call crunch time, not the other way around. Mike pushes back constantly, because he knows from experience how it can burn people out and what that means to the team, as well as the final product. [Note: I most certainly would call Epic "The Team" (chorus of angels included) but wouldn't be so pretentious as to say "_THE_ Final Product". Don't go there.]

Epic takes better care of its employees than virtually any company I've ever heard of. Tim (or as we affectionately call him, Uncle Tim) is one of the most generous people I've ever met, and Mike cares more about the people here than any boss I've ever known. If anything, they both go too far on a regular basis and we end up as spoiled primadonnas - I'm not yet convinced they'd have it any other way. Turnover here is exceedingly low (voluntary and involuntary both around 1%/year), because we work with people to hold on to them. Staff is the most valuable asset a company has.

Many people consider crunch to be a fact of life in making games. I wholeheartedly disagree, and with every game we ship, we (very consciously) take one step closer to eliminating it. We're not always effective, but we are making the effort. I'm not naive enough to say it will one day be gone, but it can be minimized and efforts properly rewarded. Hell, the average person here works crunch hours on a normal basis anyway, so calling an official crunch really just formalizes the process and serves mainly to focus the efforts of the team. Personally, I'd rather work for a small company where everyone cared than for a large company where I was a number on a spreadsheet. If that means crunching once in a while, sign me up.
 
Last edited:

-Entropy-

New Member
Feb 14, 2008
27
0
0
Yes, I'm passionate about game design, but at the end of the day this is just a job. I'm working on someone else's project, with deadlines, sometimes screwy project management, and no guarantee that it won't end up a complete pile no matter how hard I work.

In a general industry sense, this is, unfortunately, probably accurate. Fortunately, Epic (and other notable companies) operates quite differently. We don't work on someone else's project, we work on our own. Everyone's input is valuable, and everyone's contribution is essential. We've been fortunate enough to have had our share of successes, but there are no guarantees. We learn lessons every day, and never profess to be perfect. But all profits are shared - all of them, so you're never working just to line the pockets of management. This is a key difference.
 

Kazimira

Necris Fan
Dec 13, 2008
664
0
0
UK
kazumitsu.deviantart.com
W
And this is really my biggest complaint. Yes, I'm passionate about game design, but at the end of the day this is just a job. I'm working on someone else's project, with deadlines, sometimes screwy project management, and no guarantee that it won't end up a complete pile no matter how hard I work.

Twenty years from now I'm not going to wish I had put in more time at the studio. While you have me, I'm going to work my ass off, but I'm not going to stay here any longer than I need to to get the job done. I find it really insulting that Capps is implying that people who don't work overtime are somehow unmotivated or not passionate about what they do. Here's a flip for him: What if I said that I thought people who DID work overtime were too incompetent or lazy to get their work done in 8 hours?

Angel I dont know how you can do that. If I havent finished something I find it teribly diffilct to be taken away from my project and have to do something else. I went though a month of college before they realised I was eating only one meal a day just because I kept forgetting lunch and they actaly had to kick me out of my space because they locked up for dinner.

I say if someone works better on an 8 hour shift let them but if someone works till they fall asleep on the keyboard(or in my case leaning against the board I was painting up getting paint everywhere even in my hair) let them. Everyone has thair own way they work best.
 

MonsOlympus

Active Member
May 27, 2004
2,225
0
36
42
When Mike mentions "the platform" he's using a very standard industry phrase to describe the hardware the game is offered on. Implying anything otherwise is really just silly. It's not like he over-emphasized ("THE platform" - as in "t3h be-all-end-all of g4m1ng pl4tf0rm5!!!") or implied some uber status to Xbox ("The Platform" (capital T, capital P) and a chorus of angels sang in the background). Replace the word "platform" with "Xbox 360" if it makes you happy. It's no different than saying you're going to the store or out to the movies.

Can you please write the next Epic game? You have an awesome imagination :D

BTW here we have Deli's and Cinema's :lol:

Many people consider crunch to be a fact of life in making games. I wholeheartedly disagree, and with every game we ship, we (very consciously) take one step closer to eliminating it. We're not always effective, but we are making the effort. I'm not naive enough to say it will one day be gone, but it can be minimized and efforts properly rewarded. Hell, the average person here works crunch hours on a normal basis anyway, so calling an official crunch really just formalizes the process and serves mainly to focus the efforts of the team. Personally, I'd rather work for a small company where everyone cared than for a large company where I was a number on a spreadsheet. If that means crunching once in a while, sign me up.

I think you hit it right on there. For me I certainly have a clearer goal by the time I start crunching, its not so much about oh we need to crunch now (and planning to crunch) but knowing you are getting closer to your goal and you feel the adrenaline pump.

Honestly I dont think I could work in a place that kicks me out at 2am, I mean sure being over the otherside of the world means my clock is different but being a night owl (and working best when its nighttime and quiet)... Not to mention coffee goes well with the noir and ambience of the night, you get the picture. If I got kicked out in my prime working hours I dont know what I would do. I certainly wouldnt complain about Epic's core hours thats forsure but my biggest problem as a contractor was the fact I didnt get time, time and a half and double time or overtime.

I had no problems not getting paid for sick days and things like that, no benefits although insurance I think is important incase anything does go wrong (more a piece of mind thing). Id be nice to get extra money putting in extra hours even if there is no bonus incentive, for me the end product and getting to see it through to fruition is bonus enough. Im really not that greedy Id need a lambo, sorry cliffy but I just see it as a waste of money. Id rather lay down 1.8mil on a nice house on the river here in perth :cool:
 
Last edited:

_Lynx

Strategic Military Services
Staff member
Dec 5, 2003
1,965
8
38
41
Moscow, Russia
beyondunreal.com
Yeah no mystery there! I just find it funny that none of you really care that epic have become so complacent that they refer to the 360 as 'the platform'. If he's talking about GoW it was also released on PC but as with UC2 maybe he just wants to shrug that off! Seriously if it wasnt for the marketing and the timing, well... We all know how long of a delay UT3 was, who was the manager there?
He's talking about GoW2 there. Point me out another platform for it besides Xbox 360.
 

MonsOlympus

Active Member
May 27, 2004
2,225
0
36
42
Sorry I missed the part about GoW2, I get it guys jesus! How about I point you out a platform and you tell me if Epic has a game on it or not!

Michael Capps Replies To Greg Costikyan's Accusations Of Overworking Employees

Is the title of this thread, not GOW2!GOW2 is old news!

GOW GOW GOW blah blah GOW PLATFORM!

Now, Capps has responded to these accusations:

Joystiq interview: Epic's Mike Capps responds to accusations of 'exploitative' working conditions

Games like Gears, you know, it's one of the best reviewed games of all time on the platform. You don't get a game out like that with a bunch of people who don't have any passion about the quality of the product and don't want to spend that one extra night.

Scuse me for thinking Gears was on PC as well!
 
Last edited: