could possibly because it will allow people to effectively play UT with UT content even though they may have only bought a copy of UT2003?
UT99 to Ut2003--Modders, start the Engine
- Thread starter Prophetus
- Start date
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on the notice of forums I am in the process of waiting for proph to kindly set some up here at BuF.
if ur in the team please let me know.
if ur in the team please let me know.
I've already created the forums. At this moment, it has three sub forums: General, Technical and Private. I took the liberty of adding some people to the team and they should be able to see the Private forum. If you are part of the team and cannot see the forum, please let me know. Also, if you aren't part of the team and CAN see the Private forum...erm...definitely let me know
.
You can find the forums listed in the Mod section on the forum main page under: UT to UT2003 Project (name can change). Of just follow this link:
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/forumdisplay.php?f=434
At this moment, it is still under construction, please let me know what you want for the forum (i.e. name, moderators...etc.). Please inform me if you are part of the team so I can update the information. Thanks.
.You can find the forums listed in the Mod section on the forum main page under: UT to UT2003 Project (name can change). Of just follow this link:
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/forumdisplay.php?f=434
At this moment, it is still under construction, please let me know what you want for the forum (i.e. name, moderators...etc.). Please inform me if you are part of the team so I can update the information. Thanks.
In a few days, I'll move this thread into the new private forum. Still need to know who else is involved with the mod so I can give them access to the private forum.
I just booted up UT to see if it's still got that magical feel, and it actually has. If this mod can bring in the scale UT has and the weapons then I'll be mapping for this.
Let me clarify this for everyone: Epic did NOT give the Q3AUT team permission to do a UT mod for Q3A and in fact told them to stop, and they did so. What Epic is doing here is typical of what they've done before. Don't get stressed about it. I'm not.
Here's what I suggest, gang: (modified from a previously suggested list)
- Set weapons properties to UT versions
rate of fire, reload times, damage properties, physical effects, weapon skins (not ported, re-skinned), etc etc
- Set frame of view to UT version (raise player camera slightly)
- Remove double jump, wall dodge, dodge jump,and boost dodge
- Remove Adrenaline and Combos
- Add in Thigh pads, Armor, Jump boots (using current one that is out)
- Set movement to UT versions
Jump height, dodge length, gamespeed, player movement speed, etc etc
- Swap Lightning Gun with Sniper Rifle (re-skinned, no direct port!)
- Swap Assault rifle with Enforcer (add in ability for duel enforcers)
- Bring back Ripper! (reskinned, no direct port)
- Convert proven quality gameplay maps to UT2003/2004! (remade with better looks, no clogged areas, no direct porting)
I'd recommend not changing any of the current weapon models, just add the other weapon models for the Ripper and Sniper Rifle that return to the game.
I also don't recommend making maps with two different scales. Every map that is ported should be 24% larger (not 25% because the odd number causes problems for some ports). I also don't recommened rescaling player models to be smaller or exactly UT's original size. I have a thread on the Atari forums that give the exact bounding box height, jump height and crouch height of both UT and UT2k3's characters and I think that we should just accept the fact that all of UT2k3's maps and models are roughtly 24% larger than in UT, and plan accordingly. This way...
a) we don't have multiple versions of the same maps
b) we dont' make all UT2k3 maps automatically 25% larger when we play them
Ideally we should just make weapon and movement changes, as one package, and then a separate package for maps.
IOW a small mutator package that anyone can download quickly and play right away, with their current UT2k3 maps and any UT ports they may already have. And the new map pack will consist of new map ports never before seen. People can download them at their leisure.
Again the goals (I think) should be to get a quick mutator out that has all the major changes there, without breaking compatibility with UT2k3 maps and current UT ports that are already 25% larger (which there are dozens of them out already).
Here's what I suggest, gang: (modified from a previously suggested list)
- Set weapons properties to UT versions
rate of fire, reload times, damage properties, physical effects, weapon skins (not ported, re-skinned), etc etc
- Set frame of view to UT version (raise player camera slightly)
- Remove double jump, wall dodge, dodge jump,and boost dodge
- Remove Adrenaline and Combos
- Add in Thigh pads, Armor, Jump boots (using current one that is out)
- Set movement to UT versions
Jump height, dodge length, gamespeed, player movement speed, etc etc
- Swap Lightning Gun with Sniper Rifle (re-skinned, no direct port!)
- Swap Assault rifle with Enforcer (add in ability for duel enforcers)
- Bring back Ripper! (reskinned, no direct port)
- Convert proven quality gameplay maps to UT2003/2004! (remade with better looks, no clogged areas, no direct porting)
I'd recommend not changing any of the current weapon models, just add the other weapon models for the Ripper and Sniper Rifle that return to the game.
I also don't recommend making maps with two different scales. Every map that is ported should be 24% larger (not 25% because the odd number causes problems for some ports). I also don't recommened rescaling player models to be smaller or exactly UT's original size. I have a thread on the Atari forums that give the exact bounding box height, jump height and crouch height of both UT and UT2k3's characters and I think that we should just accept the fact that all of UT2k3's maps and models are roughtly 24% larger than in UT, and plan accordingly. This way...
a) we don't have multiple versions of the same maps
b) we dont' make all UT2k3 maps automatically 25% larger when we play them
Ideally we should just make weapon and movement changes, as one package, and then a separate package for maps.
IOW a small mutator package that anyone can download quickly and play right away, with their current UT2k3 maps and any UT ports they may already have. And the new map pack will consist of new map ports never before seen. People can download them at their leisure.
Again the goals (I think) should be to get a quick mutator out that has all the major changes there, without breaking compatibility with UT2k3 maps and current UT ports that are already 25% larger (which there are dozens of them out already).
We also won't need to create new gametypes etc. I think ultimately one good scripter could do the bulk of the work on this project with the needed movement and weaponry changes. No reskinning needed, just work with the makers of the UT sniper mod and the UT ripper mod for 2k3 to include their ports, then modify them as needed. Again I think one scripter could probably do all that, given enough time.
Again nothing needs to be rescaled except moving the player camera higher.
UT camera: 64UU's high.
UT2k3's camera 64UU's high
As near as I can tell from previous testing, using a map that I ported directly over and compared the top of a box that was 64UU's high, that was the camera height for both models. I recommend someone else verifying this and other stats.
UT model height: 80UU's
UT2k3 model height: 88UU's (below 92UU's and the model shifts to get under the ceiling)
So as you can see the top of the player's heads are higher up, but the "eyes" are relatively speaking, lower.
As far as jump height, it's lower in UT2k3 than in UT, but I don't remember the value right now. Movement speed I thought was the same, except that the maps were larger so the UT2k3 model seemed to be running slower, but upon further testing I'm not sure.
Again I ask, don't make things smaller to recreate the UT experience only in non-rescaled maps that are ported from UT. That's a fraction of the content that will be out there in the UT2k3 universe so keep the current player models scaled fine, and readjust the modified player movements to be proportional to UT2k3's larger maps and models.
Again nothing needs to be rescaled except moving the player camera higher.
UT camera: 64UU's high.
UT2k3's camera 64UU's high
As near as I can tell from previous testing, using a map that I ported directly over and compared the top of a box that was 64UU's high, that was the camera height for both models. I recommend someone else verifying this and other stats.
UT model height: 80UU's
UT2k3 model height: 88UU's (below 92UU's and the model shifts to get under the ceiling)
So as you can see the top of the player's heads are higher up, but the "eyes" are relatively speaking, lower.
As far as jump height, it's lower in UT2k3 than in UT, but I don't remember the value right now. Movement speed I thought was the same, except that the maps were larger so the UT2k3 model seemed to be running slower, but upon further testing I'm not sure.
Again I ask, don't make things smaller to recreate the UT experience only in non-rescaled maps that are ported from UT. That's a fraction of the content that will be out there in the UT2k3 universe so keep the current player models scaled fine, and readjust the modified player movements to be proportional to UT2k3's larger maps and models.
Ther is a list of movement distances, jump heights for both games over at the WiKi
MovementMetrics (UT)
MovementMetrics (UT2003)
Hope it helps someone
MovementMetrics (UT)
MovementMetrics (UT2003)
Hope it helps someone
Ultron said:
Really? Well, somebody is out of the loop, either you, me or someone at Epic. Here is a quote from the author of Unreal Arena in an interview:
From what he is stating, they did give that mod their blessing, with the exception of commercial content. Of course, there are other details to the agreement that I don't know, but it all boils down to this...he was allowed to recreate UT using the Quake III engine. Also, the mod is freely available and as far as he states, he is too busy to continue with the mod. I didn't see anywhere that stated he was asked to quit. In fact, this is the reason he gave for stopping and he still gives Epic and Id his appreciation for their continued support:
Swift Viper
Long live Xmas Xan Mark III(By Hyrulian)
Why not leave the map scales the same and resize the player models to UT size? I remember a post somewhere in this thread that the scale should be UT2k3 scale, but I disagree. It won't feel the same if the scale is not the same and there could be a option for UT player scale or UT2k3 player scale, so you can play UT2k3 maps with UT stats ok and play UT maps with UT2k3 stats ok.
Again, why not resize the player scale first to fit UT size and then leave the map scales the same? This would allow for testing without using the UT2k3 scale and then wasting time later resizing it to UT size when UT size could be used from the beginning. The playerpawn code from both games will have to be looked at and then in UT2k3 change the stats to UT stats like movement speed and stuff.
Again, why not resize the player scale first to fit UT size and then leave the map scales the same? This would allow for testing without using the UT2k3 scale and then wasting time later resizing it to UT size when UT size could be used from the beginning. The playerpawn code from both games will have to be looked at and then in UT2k3 change the stats to UT stats like movement speed and stuff.
because if we change the player models and not maps the maps will feel too big for the player.
we are creating it to be the same scale as UT is/was.
we've got most of what you've said Swift pretty much already sorted and how it's all going to work.
we are creating it to be the same scale as UT is/was.
we've got most of what you've said Swift pretty much already sorted and how it's all going to work.
Swift Viper
Long live Xmas Xan Mark III(By Hyrulian)
I don't understand this, I was able to change most of the stats and when I tryed to change Collision, I got a error when using UCC Make.
Things have changed then since the beginning when Mean Arena started. The last time I checked with them they were developing it and ran into trouble when Epic told them to stop using their content (mainly textures). Something must have changed since then because they obviously have a 1.0 version mod out and it's complete.
Regardless, them telling us not to use UT content isn't a big deal. UT2k3 already has most of the content we need, with the exception of a model to use for the Ripper. 2k4 will have a sniper rifle model anyways.
I think it would be a mistake to make this mod exactly like UT in all details. UT wasn't perfect and I think it would be best to use what's in UT2k3 when possible, and allow players to use UTR as a mutator to play UT2k3 maps and gametypes without any problems. IMRO.
Regardless, them telling us not to use UT content isn't a big deal. UT2k3 already has most of the content we need, with the exception of a model to use for the Ripper. 2k4 will have a sniper rifle model anyways.
I think it would be a mistake to make this mod exactly like UT in all details. UT wasn't perfect and I think it would be best to use what's in UT2k3 when possible, and allow players to use UTR as a mutator to play UT2k3 maps and gametypes without any problems. IMRO.
most 2k3 maps arent suited to UT physics and gameplay
the only one that might be is curse3
thats why were going with UT scales and maps - the aim is to produce the UT feel and most 2k3 maps are built with the 2k3 superdodges etc in mind which will make them far too big
the only one that might be is curse3
thats why were going with UT scales and maps - the aim is to produce the UT feel and most 2k3 maps are built with the 2k3 superdodges etc in mind which will make them far too big