UT99 to Ut2003--Modders, start the Engine

[Radiosity]

Hmm, I'd always been given to understand that it was ok to use UT stuff in 2K3.......using Unreal2 stuff in 2K3 is officially illegal since it's Legend's IP (apart from the concepts like Skaarj etc of course), but UT as well now?

Something not right here......

Oh and incidentally, great minds think alike eh Hunter? All my UT ports are named as CTF-UT or DM-UT etc

 

[SPoT]

Hmm, I'd always been given to understand that it was ok to use UT stuff in 2K3.......using Unreal2 stuff in 2K3 is officially illegal since it's Legend's IP (apart from the concepts like Skaarj etc of course), but UT as well now?

Something not right here......

Oh and incidentally, great minds think alike eh Hunter? All my UT ports are named as CTF-UT or DM-UT etc

Epic turns a blind eye to alot of legal issues they could persue.
It is not legal to use U2 content in UT2k3, and they have stated that many times.

Just continue to do what you are doing till I get an answer back.

Some of my email was an off the record request, and Im going to respect it.
If I drop out of the project as far as creation, you will know the answer I got. Im not very good at recreating. I can port like a maddog, thats about it.

Lets see what happens...

 

[Prophetus]

No offense SPoT, but I have been dealing with Epic and partners for a long time. However, this mod belongs to you and the team. You do what you have to do. You, not I, are the spokesman for this mod (erm...I'm assuming this, but if Mark still refuses to give the team permission, then I will make my statement and the situation known.

Good luck.

 

[SylverFyre]

lol I wasnt going to criticize but it does seem that other precedents have been set that meanthis should be OK

I realise that the legal standpoint can be a tricky situation but a flat out refusal to allow this just seems to be sticking up 2 fingers to everyone who enjoys UT

I do think Prophetus should be the one to "negotiate"

 

[Radiosity]

Mark hasn't given a flat out refusal though, he just said you can't use the content of UT in UT2003, and content in this context would mean original artwork, models, etc.. Since most of the code is already in place in UT2003 and will mainly require tweaking, it's not necessary to directly port any of that. And things like the DOM gametype would realistically need to be completely rewritten anyway, so again, no direct porting of content. Textures I don't see a problem with as the maps will be sooooo much nicer using UT2003 tex (trust me on that) anyway, and let's not forget that even though the UT2003 tex have slightly higher requirements, they're included with the game and don't require downloading (less filesize ). Sounds would admittedly be a problem unless you can find a really talented sound guy who could faithfully reproduce the original sounds, and most importantly be able to produce proof that he made them and didn't use the originals in any way (avoiding legal issues of course).

Direct porting of the maps (brushes etc), I'm none too sure about. Yes, they come under the heading of content, but not in such a tangible way.......hmm, not sure about that, but I'd guess it would be safe to assume the same applies. Which would IMHO be the real biatch, since those maps all have a hella load of complex BSP that it would be incredibly difficult for even an experienced mapper to reproduce perfectly (and a lot of the really complex stuff was build in max as well, like the Face asteroid if I remember correctly).

It is not legal to use U2 content in UT2k3, and they have stated that many times.

That's what I said

Just continue to do what you are doing till I get an answer back.

I'll be continuing what I'm doing regardless - I'm porting all the maps for my own benefit and have been for some months now. But with all the content I've used from Unreal2 and various free textures etc I've found for download, my stuff won't be suitable without some serious re-working, which I guarantee would take longer than just porting the maps over again using default 2K3 stuff

 

[Prophetus]

No...no, SPoT and the team are making this mod. I will remain neutral in this matter, mainly because of my status at the site. Whoever negotiates this, should definitely be from the team.

However, I will provide my support when and if needed to keep this mod going. If this mod cannot continue, I will ensure the fans receive both sides of the situation.

To all of you guys working on this...I say great job and I'm extremely proud to see such motivation in this community!

 

[Hunter]

Hmm, I'd always been given to understand that it was ok to use UT stuff in 2K3.......using Unreal2 stuff in 2K3 is officially illegal since it's Legend's IP (apart from the concepts like Skaarj etc of course), but UT as well now?

Something not right here......

Oh and incidentally, great minds think alike eh Hunter? All my UT ports are named as CTF-UT or DM-UT etc

its easier to work with.

and i'm sure ut2k3 players may want to play the map as i'm sure if they have the mod and we use UT weapons they will be there anyway.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

SpoT I hope you realize the incredible backing that Proph is giving you. He is a well known and respected person in the Unreal community, notwithstanding that he has dealt with Epic, DE, and Legend before.

 

[Hunter]

I think it's only because proph is trained to kill

if we keep going and get something out i'm sure epic will see what we are doing and let us continue.

 

[KarlMarx]

Mark hasn't given a flat out refusal though, he just said you can't use the content of UT in UT2003, and content in this context would mean original artwork, models, etc.

I agree, even if Epic wants to be unhelpful, which would be very disappointing, then it might only limit the mod or make it more difficult in certain respects -- at least as far as the ultimate goal of mirroring the exact appearance and sounds of UT1 is concerned. That doesn't mean you can't get close and nail the most important dimensions of gameplay, weapon features, physics, etc. which replicate the feel of UT1 if not the precise look and sound.

I'm actually a bit surprised by Rein's response. I though I read in the Make Something Unreal contest rules something about submissions being allowed to rip off UT1 content. Maybe not. I hope Epic's reply isn't a knee-jerk response specifically targetted at the idea of a full UT Classic mod.

 

[SylverFyre]

I think the spirit of what Prophetus posted at the start of the thread is spot on

Weapon sounds and visual appearance, music and textures are of minor importance - the singular important factor is the gameplay.
A large part of this involves maps - theres little point in doing all this if we cant play the UT favourites with UT feel and gameplay but with the improved visuals and effects - which is very likely what a vast number of people were expecting from 2k3 in the first place.

This is the target audience, and the reason for making the mod so if we cant use UT textures etc thats fine by me but map geometry is important for the "old favourites" like deck, face etc etc

( personally I'd also like to see 4 team colours reinstated 4 team iDOM rocks )

 

[Hunter]

here is what i have of orby

having problems with texture alignment atm cant get it to match ued2

 

[Radiosity]

Handy shortcut Hunter:

Shift+B to select all surfaces on a single brush (after selecting one or more surfaces to start with of course ), then right click -> Align -> Planar to give it a standard planar map without having to use the specific wall or floor maps. Tweak from there

 

[Hunter]

what do u mean by tweak???

 

[BigFolks]

He means, manually straighten the textures out. Right clicking a texture of the ued and going to the properties will bring up like a window of some sort. If I am not mistaken, I believe there is a set of buttons to choose from that move the textures left/right up/down special increments so your textures will always be aligned perfectly. like you can bump textures up by 16 increments or 8 or 4 i believe. Just mess with it.. or "tweak" it. Have fun. This is the part where you cry. Just think of all the textures you'll have to move.

 

[Hunter]

thanks Big thats going to help loads

 

[BigFolks]

I will be back soon with a list of maps I will begin converting over. To give you an idea, I will be converting preferably CTF maps before they've all been converted.


Can we redo the textures ourselves to give the maps ut ish feel without using all high quality 2k3 textures? Gameplay will be fine but it just won't feel the same without ut textures. Lets not give up on the ut textures just yet. Keep submitting requests to Mark Rien.

I told my mom about this big deal and she said that Mark Rien would try to take advantage of this, slap a price tag on this mod and sell it. I'm thinking no more than $10. If it were like $5 hell yeah, I will go for that.

 

[Hunter]

im using UT textures dont care what mark says atm.

also proph has said stuff bout sticking up for us and helping sort it out, so go ahead with using them.

 

[BigFolks]

Ok, I have a problem though.. Most of the maps use the same textures. So if I were to download a map from you, you may have different textures. Make sure your texture packages are the same name and haven't been modified.

Same thing goes for sound files.
Music is gonna be the difficult part. Don't add music until somebody posts a perfect conversion over in this thread.

 

[Radiosity]

The textures aren't exactly big in UT, just put them in the myLevel package and have every map independant. I hate very few things more than additional packages with a map when no mapper - and I mean no mapper - needs to supply more than a single file, ie, the map itself.

And you shouldn't have to move textures manually for the most part, the planar map generally takes care of it. The most you should need to do is selecting a large quantity of textures all at once and shifting them slightly to line them up with ceiling, walls, whatever. Curved surfaces are an exception Don't expect to get things perfect either, when you port brushes like that the UT2003 editor 'fractures' a lot of them so they're a lot different to the originals. Curved arches and similar are the worst for this.