True Scale 29

[randomas]

I agree with both ...

Yes what you can actually see in a 45 fov is what you would see out of a square of said dimentions at that distance from your eyes. But this does away with periferal vision (some of us actually extend to 150 + degrees) the 90 fov is a fairly decent compromise. But when you need to aim it becomes problematic because of the 90 degree fov compressed onto the 45 of your monitor. So the fov switch is in my opinion also a good compromise.

I don't think that a gradual fov variation would be a good idea cause you'd also need to implement a gradual ironsights zeroing algorithm to make up for the differences. I'm still pretty much convinced 45 is overkill (for gameplay reasons not reality ones).

Also please go with the gametype mod if you can because not all the servers state what their running (I got alot of confusion in the 286 days) and noobs dont get confused by different gameplays on different servers. You basically need three new gametypes one for eas one for specialist and one for tdm.

I'd like to take a look at the code and fiddle with it but as far as I know there isn't a ut editor and compiler for linux ... please tell me I'm wrong .....

 

[Paskunx]

A FOV of 80 or 90 is 'standard' in modern games and reflects what a human is able to see. If someone would use a VR helmet or VR glasses then it would fit perfectly.
The calculations you guys showed here are correct but they do not reflect what your player would see in the world he is playing in... you calculate it from the point of view the human player sitting behind a monitor with a specific distance has and not what the character in-game is able to see.
So, games use the FOV of the player representation in-game and not the human sitting in front of a monitor. Nothing fits if you scale it down and all it does is zooming in... nothing more.
And if you really think that the 45 FOV is more real... well then please find a way to pull out the weapon meshs in front of the monitor into the hands of the human player... cause only then would the FOV of the human player fit to what you are able to see on screen. The screen is not a small window into a world that changes its FOV depending on the position a human player has in front of it... it represents the FOV of the character in-game... nothing more.

Beppo

FOV of 80 or 90 is 'standard' in modern games : I strongly agree, it is somewhat a standard, though there are exceptions.
reflects what a human is able to see: I never would agree on this, because:
Real fov is almost 180, 90 is not even near that.
There are about 126 000 000 receptors in human's eye, 1 920 000 pixels in 1600x1200 (quite good resolution) is about 65 times less than that.

So a picture on screen NEVER reflects what a human can see.

But we can try our best to make ingame vision as near real vision as possible.
One would want to use 110fov in CQB, when amount of area seen matters more than detail distance vision. (120 gives a headache to some)
One would want to use 45fov outdoors.
Both above options are worse than real seeing, so nothing to worry about balances and such.

The screen IS a small window into a world, whatever you say. So why use a dirty one?

 

[Beppo]

I don't like to conform to any standard, I go with what feels right and common sense. What are these modern games are you talking about? UT and Quake? It is usually the simulators that let people change the FOV. Like I said before 45 FOV was meant for monitors and not VR glasses. The monitor is a 2d window to the world. If you have a pair of stereo 3d glasses, with the correct settings, the weapon mesh will pop out in front of the screen.

you do not even try to understand my pov, do you... (and yes I understood yours fully)
So, do you change the FOV for me then too... I sit about 30 inches away from my monitor... oh wait... now it is 40...
Variable FOV would be the thing to go but that is a way of using the FOV as zoom 'tool' ... and many consider this a cheat.
Anyway, you do not conform to any standard as you say then I guess there's no need to discuss anything with you further cause all you seem to allow is your own standard and nothing else.

Here's the thing, I'm chaging the game play, not the game type. In the past, any server that ran game play tweaking mutie always state upfront what mutie they're running (rav2, rav1, ra286, etc.). Lastly, chances are you're not going to see 24/7 servers running TS or something like it any time soon.

You are changing the game play, yes. But you are changing the whole game this way. And slight changes in gameplay can form up a totally new game type. But as others already said, you don't want to see the difference and you don't want to use the extra handful of lines of code it seems.

Well if it would not be Christmas right now I probably would post some more but I'm already sick of it and don't want to ruin my good mood atm.

So, to all that still read this here...
Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad, Feliz Natal, Buon Natale, Joyeux Noël, Prettig Kerkfest und Fröhliche Weihnachten. (add any language you prefer here and sorry for any typos or spelling errors)

Beppo

 

[NTKB]

I dont like the zoom I wish all the features of this game type were mutators instead of a single package.

 

[yurch]

Variable FOV would be the thing to go but that is a way of using the FOV as zoom 'tool' ... and many consider this a cheat.

How is it a cheat when everyone can do it?

 

[SaraP]

Here's the thing, I'm chaging the game play, not the game type. In the past, any server that ran game play tweaking mutie always state upfront what mutie they're running (rav2, rav1, ra286, etc.). Lastly, chances are you're not going to see 24/7 servers running TS or something like it any time soon.

Why are you being so damned stubborn about this? It’s not as if making it a new gametype makes it impossible for you to make this or that change – all it does is make it perfectly clear that this is Infiltration As Modified By Toad, not Infiltration. Given that it's trivially easy to change and doesn't at all interfere with the functioning of your mutator, it is completely and totally unreasonable for you to refuse the team's demand.

IT'S THEIR SANDBOX -- PLAY BY THEIR RULES OR DON'T PLAY AT ALL.

 

[[C22]-SpOOky]

Its amazing how many poeple are reading this thread and pick out a small part of a post and bitch about it

But they Say Nothing In suport of beppos Request to list mods that change gameplay as a new gamestyle

Some elements of this Community are son'o'bitchs who deserve No respect or supprt from anyone

To those who have suported Beppos stance on this a Very Merry Christmas
To the rest of ya GTF

 

[yurch]

But they Say Nothing In suport of beppos Request to list mods that change gameplay as a new gamestyle

What do you want, an entire thread of posts on it?

 

[SaraP]

Its amazing how many poeple are reading this thread and pick out a small part of a post and bitch about it

But they Say Nothing In suport of beppos Request to list mods that change gameplay as a new gamestyle

Some elements of this Community are son'o'bitchs who deserve No respect or supprt from anyone

To those who have suported Beppos stance on this a Very Merry Christmas
To the rest of ya GTF

Exactly. People kept bitching at me for ripping on Toad, completely ignoring that I said from the start that I was angry at him because he knew Beppo had said about modifiers and willfully chose to ignore it, NOT because I didn't like his mutator.

 

[Deathrow]

Well well well...

First I thought that was interesting... more goodies to come.
When Beppo suggested new gametype and offered help it all looked even more promising.

From players POV it would be nice to see new gametypes. You'd immediately see if server runs ...,TDM, EAS, Yurch's RealAim, Toad's TrueScale, Liferow's NinjaSamuraiMassacre (with bullet holes on skins) etc.
IMO it would bring more order and less confusion. Nobody would be hurt... no freedom lost.
Instead of browsing through servers... reading sth like:
server1 (running no ACOG, rollingGrenade,rav3)
server2 (running NinjaSmassacre with Bastardsword disabled, reportdirection, InfGPS)
server3 (running EAS with banana on the stick addon, no m203, Minimi ACOG )
server4( choose your favourite combo and insert it here) ...

If I was developing a mutator/gametype by myself I'd admire help from INF-lead programmer. After all... if I wouldn't like Infiltration as it is... I wouldn't even think about making mutator for it. I would choose other game/mod and make a mutator for that game/mod instead.

Arguing about who is more right about FOV is pointless IMO.
As a player I like it as it is done now in pure Infiltration 2.9 (feels OK with me and changing FOV doesn't put me in real life but just makes me narrow perspectived).

Example from RL: I am on the field close to forest. I'm looking in the direction of forest. I don't see anything unusual. I hear a bark from the distance. I look at the direction from where it came. I focus my look on the part of forest from which I heard noise. I suddenly notice there is a man walking a dog on the edge of forest. I didn't see a man until I adjusted my 'manual focus' on him.
As far as I know ... games don't support experiences like that yet (adaptive focus etc.).

And btw myrellife.ini has FOV set to normal and zooming set to disabled. Eyes passed the medic test.

But after all that's only my point of view and I don't know much about UT script.

Happy Xmas to you all !

 

[Beppo]

How is it a cheat when everyone can do it?

cause not all will know about this being possible/useable at all then...

in addition the scopes are more or less obsolete then... or their usage gets minimized if their FOV values are adjusted cause at some point you cannot adjust it anymore (after reaching zero or comming close). Take the RC.50 scope for example ... it can zoom between a FOV of 10 and 30 based on a standard FOV of 90. If you now take a FOV of 45 as the standard the FOV of the RC.50 would reach from 5 to 15 ... makes only a max difference of 10 units then to the original maximum of 20.

Anyway... back to Christmas time...

 

[NTKB]

cause not all will know about this being possible/useable at all then...

in addition the scopes are more or less obsolete then... or their usage gets minimized if their FOV values are adjusted cause at some point you cannot adjust it anymore (after reaching zero or comming close). Take the RC.50 scope for example ... it can zoom between a FOV of 10 and 30 based on a standard FOV of 90. If you now take a FOV of 45 as the standard the FOV of the RC.50 would reach from 5 to 15 ... makes only a max difference of 10 units then to the original maximum of 20.

Anyway... back to Christmas time...

Agreed. Make a new gametype TOAD Stop this war allready before it consumes you if it hasnt allready.

Well well well...

First I thought that was interesting... more goodies to come.
When Beppo suggested new gametype and offered help it all looked even more promising.

From players POV it would be nice to see new gametypes. You'd immediately see if server runs ...,TDM, EAS, Yurch's RealAim, Toad's TrueScale, Liferow's NinjaSamuraiMassacre (with bullet holes on skins) etc.
IMO it would bring more order and less confusion. Nobody would be hurt... no freedom lost.
Instead of browsing through servers... reading sth like:
server1 (running no ACOG, rollingGrenade,rav3)
server2 (running NinjaSmassacre with Bastardsword disabled, reportdirection, InfGPS)
server3 (running EAS with banana on the stick addon, no m203, Minimi ACOG )
server4( choose your favourite combo and insert it here) ...

If I was developing a mutator/gametype by myself I'd admire help from INF-lead programmer. After all... if I wouldn't like Infiltration as it is... I wouldn't even think about making mutator for it. I would choose other game/mod and make a mutator for that game/mod instead.

Arguing about who is more right about FOV is pointless IMO.
As a player I like it as it is done now in pure Infiltration 2.9 (feels OK with me and changing FOV doesn't put me in real life but just makes me narrow perspectived).

Example from RL: I am on the field close to forest. I'm looking in the direction of forest. I don't see anything unusual. I hear a bark from the distance. I look at the direction from where it came. I focus my look on the part of forest from which I heard noise. I suddenly notice there is a man walking a dog on the edge of forest. I didn't see a man until I adjusted my 'manual focus' on him.
As far as I know ... games don't support experiences like that yet (adaptive focus etc.).

And btw myrellife.ini has FOV set to normal and zooming set to disabled. Eyes passed the medic test.

But after all that's only my point of view and I don't know much about UT script.

Happy Xmas to you all !

Perfectly said. I for one as a noob wouldnt want to see that kind of server list ...

server1 (running no ACOG, rollingGrenade,rav3)
server2 (running NinjaSmassacre with Bastardsword disabled, reportdirection, InfGPS)
server3 (running EAS with banana on the stick addon, no m203, Minimi ACOG )
server4( choose your favourite combo and insert it here)

Instead, when I click on the EAS tab I want EAS games, and if I want to play a RAv3 or True Scale I would. Just make the ****ing gametype jeesh TOAD

 

[Vega-don]

Liferow's NinjaSamuraiMassacre (with bullet holes on skins)

I WANT IT !!

and guys ! peace ! we are a rather small community , we have some fun together online , knifing each other, claymoring, covering fire, peace !

 

[SaraP]

I say if Toad won't make it a gametype, BAN HIM until he OBEYS THE EFFING RULES! There's nothing wrong with TrueScale, but if Toad is arrogant and prideful to the point where he'll ignore the dev team to their faces, he shouldn't be allowed to be part of the community.

 

[Shrap]

Code is back

 

[DamienW]

Not exactly. SaraP is just requesting that someone is banned for disobeying rules, (while she herself disobeys Beppo's rule of "no flaming here, but that's not the point).

She has no power, and represents only herself.

 

[TOAD]

I'm seeing double standard, gameplay tweaking muties such as "Slow Bullet" and "Comic Guy" are not listed under a different gametype. I guess that's because they're part of SS's vision of INF right?
SaraP, I'm just going to ignore you because I don't want to be associating with someone who sounds like a damn commie.

 

[TOAD]

cause not all will know about this being possible/useable at all then...

in addition the scopes are more or less obsolete then... or their usage gets minimized if their FOV values are adjusted cause at some point you cannot adjust it anymore (after reaching zero or comming close). Take the RC.50 scope for example ... it can zoom between a FOV of 10 and 30 based on a standard FOV of 90. If you now take a FOV of 45 as the standard the FOV of the RC.50 would reach from 5 to 15 ... makes only a max difference of 10 units then to the original maximum of 20.

Anyway... back to Christmas time...

You're right, scopes are not needed as much in RA286 or TS29 because most engagement ranges in INF are less than 200m. Anyone with some shooting experience will tell you that it's fairly easy to hit a human size target at 200m without the need of a scope.
The Robar in TS29 is equipped with a 4.9x-14.3x scope. Actual zoom in the game is set to 5x-14x (FOV of 9.5º-3.4º).

For those who wants to know the zoom powers of scopes in TS

ACOG: 4x
PSG1's: 6x
Robar's: 5x-14x

 

[[C22]-SpOOky]

but if Toad is arrogant and prideful to the point where he'll ignore the dev team to their faces, he shouldn't be allowed to be part of the community.

Amen !!

 

[SaraP]

I'm seeing double standard, gameplay tweaking muties such as "Slow Bullet" and "Comic Guy" are not listed under a different gametype. I guess that's because they're part of SS's vision of INF right?

Exactly right, despite your sarcasm. This is Sentry Studios' game -- they can do as they please. Or would you rather they locked out the ability to modify the game at all because they're angry at people not following their rules about mutators?

SaraP, I'm just going to ignore you because I don't want to be associating with someone who sounds like a damn commie.

I didn't say he should be banned for making TS; I said he should be banned if he refuses to make the small and very reasonable change that the team requested, especially since it DOESN'T AFFECT THE GAMEPLAY MODIFICATIONS HE WANTS.