Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

[Cat Fuzz]

Snakes like pythons and boas have vestigial claws and vestigial hips. These are useless to the snakes. Do a search for vestigial claws and pythons and you can read more about it.

But it’s remnants of walking features that snakes used to have when they were more like lizards. Evolution hasn’t completely erased these traces because there hasn’t been enough time to do so.

Creationists don’t like these vestigial remnants.

Genesis 3:14 - And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

 

[Cat Fuzz]

When you start breaking down life, you finally reach the fact that life is a carbon-based lifeform. It’s not difficult to think of life diversifying from a common carbon-based ancestry. What else is it going to do? Life changes due to environment and other things, so what’s so hard to understand about our common carbon-based existence changing and diversifying. Now if things went the other way where everything was extremely complex and made good use of their surroundings, but changed to be extremely simplistic to the point they border on the definition of life, then that would seem wrong.

As far as all this fossil jazz goes, I’ve mentioned this several times, but it just goes in one ear and out the other: A huge portion of the earth is constantly renewing itself. The earth’s crust is made up of about 12 major plates that are constantly in motion. These huge slabs collide at places and one will dip below the other and go into the mantle and melt. At the same time, plates are rising up out of the mantle. Fossils aren’t going to survive this molten trip. Add to that volcanic eruptions, meteor dust, etc. that blankets the earth, covering up stuff. Erosion, freezing and thawing, glacier activity, floods, plants and animals….. they all do their part in erasing the fossil record.

Even with all that going on, we still have fossils to work with and study. But how many fossils have we found of man with t-rex bite marks through his skull? How many dinosaurs left hooked claws broken off and embedded in human fossil remains? None. None because dinosaurs and man did not live at the same time.

Nice one! You used the same arguement to prove your theory and disprove mine! Wow.

 

[Evil_Cope]

this is the response you get when you try to debate by being confrontational.

It's suprising how much further you get with some simple courtesy.

 

[Cat Fuzz]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html


This is a cool site.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

Genesis 3:14 - And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

And this is why snakes eat sand.

 

[Cat Fuzz]

And this is why snakes eat sand.

The .."and dust shalt thou eat" part is clearly figurative. When you were a kid, how many times did you tell your racing opponent to "EAT MY DUST!" They never REALLY ate dust, did they?

 

[Mister_Prophet]

Yeah I'm just being a di<k Cat

I will say the reference is pretty interesting to say the least. Though the serpent has been a worshipped and feared icon for cultures and religions far older than Christianity.

What do you think about the Fin crap I mentioned? Doesn't the fact that nearly all Organisms with fins (whether they be reptiles, mammals, or Marine life ect.) have bones for digits mean anything more than "bleh"?

 

[Mister_Prophet]

The .."and dust shalt thou eat" part is clearly figurative. When you were a kid, how many times did you tell your racing opponent to "EAT MY DUST!" They never REALLY ate dust, did they?

Sorry to comment on this furthure, but I find the vast majority of what is said in the bible to be "figurative". I don't think Religion has any real importance outside of the basic principles that can be outlined in a paragraph or a sentence. Be kind to one another, the rest is...as far as I can tell, mythology based loosely and on events or things people have seen in real life and couldn't find explainations for.

 

[Cat Fuzz]

What do you think about the Fin crap I mentioned? Doesn't the fact that nearly all Organisms with fins (whether they be reptiles, mammals, or Marine life ect.) have bones for digits mean anything more than "bleh"?

The existance of bones inside a fin doesn't prove crap. There has to be some sort of skeletal structure in a fin, why not finger-like bones? Doesn't mean there were fingers there at one time.

 

[Evil_Cope]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html


This is a cool site.

Interesting, and not without Wit.

 

[Evil_Cope]

The .."and dust shalt thou eat" part is clearly figurative. When you were a kid, how many times did you tell your racing opponent to "EAT MY DUST!" They never REALLY ate dust, did they?

This is why i prefer the branches of christianity that do not favour creationism in it's literal sense, because clearly, not everything is going to be (or needs to be) Interpreted literally.

If the snake eating dust can be figurative, why not anything else? I do not see how it lessens God to have done things in a different way. If you don't mind me asking, Cat, Why favour a more literal interpretation of the bible over the alternative interpretations?

What makes it seem more likely?

 

[XepptizZ]

Wow, this thing is still going on?

And cristianity has some good gidelines, moraly speaking, but it sometimes does contradict with our present very accepting society.

 

[Twrecks]

Even with all that going on, we still have fossils to work with and study. But how many fossils have we found of man with t-rex bite marks through his skull? How many dinosaurs left hooked claws broken off and embedded in human fossil remains? None. None because dinosaurs and man did not live at the same time.

I feel hurt. I will now go chew someone's head off...

As you pointed out Q, the Earth is big and always shifting. Land masses collide and seperate every few millenia, hence the geographic isolation of Australia's animal evolutions.

To go a step further, we should not rule out the possibilities of several primordial pots. After all, insects are drastically different from animals, and animals differ from plants. The ooze that created animals is pre-dated by the pool that propigated plants by billions of years. One may (or not) contribute to the next.

Evolution does get speeded by mutation. We have on our planet a perpencity for mutant spawns. Environmental conditions will either wipe out, or promote mutation (see X-men). It's that little thing Darwin called "natural selection". In the case of dogs, selective breeding takes a big role, just as farmers have done for thousands of years with fruit and veggies (and fungus too!).

Man is a relative new comer to the North American continent. My dino brothers lived here for millions of years till it got cold from a nuclear winter brought on by meteor fallout. Yet that meteor left a layer of Iridium over the entire planet. A mineral not native to this rock. So consider celestial debris and rampant radiation into the mix when dealing with evolution. Aliens?

Mythology exists to explain the unknown in terms ppl can relate to, provided by a lack of science. It goes back to the age old question of "why?", something from the age of 2 ppl begin to ask. By the teens, ppl are more interested in "How?". Dinos were only interested in "Where?" (is the food) and "WTF is that big ball of fire heading towards us?".

 

[militaryspetproject]

Evolution does get speeded by mutation. We have on our planet a perpencity for mutant spawns. Environmental conditions will either wipe out, or promote mutation (see X-men). It's that little thing Darwin called "natural selection". In the case of dogs, selective breeding takes a big role, just as farmers have done for thousands of years with fruit and veggies (and fungus too!).

LMAO! Im not discrediting you I just thought someone using the comics or movie x men as a source was not only hilarious but showed exactly how geeky we are by the things we relate to.

 

[ReD_Fist]

I don't see the big mystery about the dust eating snake,all it means is they would live close to the ground,the dirt the dust.
And for the meaning part of it, means no arms no legs ,more or less.

 

[Twrecks]

LMAO! Im not discrediting you I just thought someone using the comics or movie x men as a source was not only hilarious but showed exactly how geeky we are by the things we relate to.

I always try to relate to my audience :tup:

On Snakes eating dust... there are advantages in being taller. Hieght has always been associated with authority, which is why the pope wears a big hat. Guess he is "closer to God" wearing the simplex mitre (ooh, fancy name)

 

[Zarkazm]

CATSNAKE

 

[Nachimir]

Where do masochists go when they die?

 

[Stilgar]

They get reincarnated as a human The wrost possible punishment.

 

[ReD_Fist]

Just saw on TV that little girl whom legs have a are birth defect to ware they grown togethor.They are going to try and separate them,they call it a mermaid effect or defect.

BUT my point is,is lets say they found a fossil of that girl a million years from now,like holy crap we came from fishies !!

So there you go,eveolution is a figment of your imaginations.

And on the flipside,if we were eveolving to such a degree to have came from nothing-matter,then would you say her birth defect was a old gene someware.I mean really,thats how stupid evolution from apes are,totaly unwarrented,illogical,manmade idea.
And if so ware is the bible or a book or anything documented from history to show your right,thats cause there aint one.