Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

[bobtheking]

Ya I kinda fouled up that last post,heh sorry,

I had to read it several times heh.
..................................................................................
heres the story on the boycotting scientists i was talking about a few posts ago ,last week.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156401,00.html

because creationism is not worth debating. should science debate with every retarded creationism theory there is? should they debate the invisible giant dog created the universe yesterday and planted all our memories and evidence to the contrary theory? because it has exactly as much evidence and credibility as creationism.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154455,00.html


During the morning pledge at Everitt Middle School in Wheat Ridge, eighth-grade counselor Margo Lucero, who was filling in for an absent principal, changed a portion of the pledge from "one nation under God" to "one nation under your belief system," while on the school public-address system.

Lucero says she meant well.

"I said that because I believe that there should be separation between church and school," she said. "I believe that everybody should have their own beliefs and that we shouldn't have to say, 'under God.'"

she's a jackass. big deal, some people are jackasses.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145844,00.html

classes in Staunton, which are held at a church near the elementary school there in the middle of the school day, are attended by 80 to 85 percent of the first-, second- and third-graders in the district.

But a small minority of parents doesn't like the classes, calling them an inappropriate Christian outreach program, so they want the school board to put an end to the program for everyone.

this is a ****ty idea. would you be happy if your tax money was being used to send your and other's kids to, say, muslim mosques for islam classes? not only is it a waste of money, but you probably wouldnt be very happy with it.

but it appears the ANTI religion poeple are the ones dong all the stepping on our rights,not the churches.

no one is stepping on anyone's rights. you can still do whatever the **** you want with your time and your money, it is only what is done with public tax money that is in question, and no, we shouldn't be sending people to church with that money.

 

[Nachimir]

Using it to send Red Fist somewhere remote would be good though. Preferably without net access. I'd vote for that, and throw money into a hat. To be fair, he is doing Republicans and Christians a disservice.

 

[Stilgar]

Siberia awaits you, REd.

 

[Frostblood]

OK, RedFist. Apparantly NSDAP have just announced their "25 Point Program" which they'll be promoting across America as soon as they launch their campaign ( whenever that is ).

Here's some of the points.

2. We demand equality of rights for the American people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the treaties with the United Nations, International Court of Law, etc.

18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

19. We demand substitution of an American International law in place of the UN law serving a materialistic world-order.

23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a American press, we demand, that publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the American people. The NSDAP as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Atheist-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.

What dy'er think?

 

[ReD_Fist]

bobthe.........""""this is a ****ty idea. would you be happy if your tax money was being used to send your and other's kids to, say, muslim mosques for islam classes? not only is it a waste of money, but you probably wouldnt be very happy with it.""""

No tax money,all these programs must be off campus and paid for privatly,by law.

"""she's a jackass. big deal, some people are jackasses.**"
well these are the people who are screwing everything up,of whom get the defence money of the ACLU,wich is out to rip away our rights,they lived out there usefullness but still .

I mean wtf is the big deal,NO i wouldnt want my kid to goto a muslim church,so i just wouldnt let him\her go,but I also wouldnt try and stop the others but i wouldnt like it either.it's there right.
but USA was never based on heathen religion,virgins pffft,then they get offended so easily,like flushing the down the toilet q ran thingy or whatever it's called.

If they flushed the bible,burned it ,i wouldnt go protest that ,like they do,it just proves they need to make a ruckess on earth,cause trouble,from that newsweek story.

"""The protests started after Newsweek reported interrogators in the Cuban prison were placing copies of the Koran on toilets and in one case flushed one.

The deaths brought the total to 14 killed in the biggest outpouring of anti-American sentiment since the fall of the Taliban in 2001 — a deepening worry for the government of U.S.-backed President Hamid Karzai.

In the southeastern city of Ghazni, witnesses said shooting broke out after protesters swarmed toward a police station and the governor's residence after Friday prayers chanting “Death to America” and pelting the buildings with rocks."""



The way to solve this crap with that guy leading the insergents is to bury them with a pig.it would pale be-heading.and whoever thinks i am racist when it comes to arabs,so be it,(I never used to be) because after the last 3 years or so they prove to be ungratfull ,they never speakout against their bad guys.

 

[ReD_Fist]

Frost.........."""What dy'er think?"""

seems a little heavy handed to me,why don't they just stick with the TV issues,not all that other stuff.

 

[bobtheking]

bobthe.........""""this is a ****ty idea. would you be happy if your tax money was being used to send your and other's kids to, say, muslim mosques for islam classes? not only is it a waste of money, but you probably wouldnt be very happy with it.""""

No tax money,all these programs must be off campus and paid for privatly,by law.

it doesn't say that in the article you linked. if it is true then its not as big of a deal, you know what? people bitch, both sides have bitchy ass people. take a look at yourself.

your problem with the ACLU is you have only heard about their supposedly anti-religious cases. they do plenty of pro-religious work too, and overall religious issues are tiny compared to everything they do. however, you've already expressed your dislike of having rights, so you can just move to china if you don't like them.

as for the rest of it, it is nothing you haven't said before and responded to my arguments earlier. stop dragging new bull**** that has nothing to do with the topic like you've been doing for the past several pages.

 

[ReD_Fist]

it doesn't say that in the article you linked. if it is true then its not as big of a deal, you know what? people bitch, both sides have bitchy ass people. take a look at yourself..

Ya this is true.

your problem with the ACLU is you have only heard about their supposedly anti-religious cases. they do plenty of pro-religious work too, and overall religious issues are tiny compared to everything they do. however, you've already expressed your dislike of having rights, so you can just move to china if you don't like them..

This is could be true.

as for the rest of it, it is nothing you haven't said before and responded to my arguments earlier. stop dragging new bull**** that has nothing to do with the topic like you've been doing for the past several pages..

Well my point is burning there book and or the bible,via religious thread,and or more to the mix in here,but anyway,,,,I heard a arab guy on TV talking about how it was a bogus thing,because many of there q'rans or whatever ,was destroyed in other places and not a word,he said it is 100% political.

 

[bobtheking]

This is could be true.

take a look for yourself, www.aclu.org they have all the stuff they are currently doing and have done documented.

I heard a arab guy on TV talking about how it was a bogus thing,because many of there q'rans or whatever ,was destroyed in other places and not a word,he said it is 100% political.

yes, they are looking for a reason to riot, do you think it was smart to give them one? just because they might be wrong doesn't mean we should be doing it. our goal now is to 'win the hearts and minds', we need to not do anything that pisses them off, rightfully or not.

 

[ReD_Fist]

you never answered my question redfist about putting hormones in formula. And you never explained wtf your post was about. Any of the stories you linked to dont seem to be what you were talking about in post #1563.

I just meant about that hormone line,is you don't teach "sex" to children,what mabye 10 ,11 13 14? 15 years old,NOT 6 ,so my point was the "gay agenda" would rather have everybody like them without even haveing a chance to get out of the whomb.

Plus personaly I don't like being told how I have to think about it,I don't hate gay fagy strange stuff,however I am Tired of hearing about "whao is me" "my rights" "freedome of whatever" .,,,tough !!! If one is different than the rest it will be seen easier,hence they act like nothing is different,but everybody else can and will point it out.
If one chooses to stickout of the croud,but exspects no one to say anything or notice ,think twice,but then if someone does they cry "gay rights" baaagh BS.

 

[oosyxxx]

the wonderful thing is if you hit anytown, rural USA you'll find lots of people who basically agree with everything that red fist has shown what 00he stands for. also, the aw-shucks, hick/simpleton stereotype sells in this country: clinton selectively yet successfully employed it before and while president, which is basically what bush copied, although not as convincingly, then again, lots of people actually think he's a texan so that doesn't matter just as long as he tries. oh, and larry the cable guy grossed more $ from standup comedy than any other comedian last year.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

oh, and larry the cable guy grossed more $ from standup comedy than any other comedian last year.

Of all the things you just said, this is the one that truly bothers me...

 

[Cat Fuzz]

because evolution is not worth debating.

Fixed.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

With stellar rebuttals like that it's easy to see why evolution is "atheist hocus pocus".

 

[Cat Fuzz]

With stellar rebuttals like that it's easy to see why evolution is "atheist hocus pocus".

Does that mean I win?

 

[bobtheking]

Fixed.

Does that mean I win?

way to read the rest of the point.

if every idea was deserving of debate, we'd never stop debating. you cannot possibly argue for creationism, it is simply impossible, there is nothing to say.

the only thing you can do is argue against evolution, and that effectively happens every time a piece about evolution is published in any peer reviewed journal.

the problem here is creationists have a tendency to simply make up evidence that supposedly contradicts evolution, or denying that evidence of evolution exists


for example, hoyle's (who is an applied mathematician btw) probability of an enzyme forming has been shown to be false by people actually in related fields like chemistry and biology. yet creationists quote it all the time.

or thermodynamics, which flatly does not contradict evolution (read the whole statement before making claims with it), is quoted in every creationism/evolution debate i've ever seen.

the dino footprints with man has also been shown to be false, yet it is quoted sometimes.

then there is the classic irreducable complexity argument, while it is a more difficult point to explain, it is not an argument for creationism (see second point). furthermore creationists using this argument have had to change their irreducably complex organ of choice many times as they are proven to not be irreducable. just because it is harder to explain/we don't know yet, doesn't mean we won't know soon.

then we have many examples of people denying evidence for evolution in this very thread. demanding evidence of transitional forms, then simply rejecting it when it is posted. any even partly complete chain of evolution between species is rejected as microevolution (i like how the definition of this word expands to suit creationist's needs on demand). eventually you will have to regard all evolution as microevolution if the trend from this thread continues.


hmm, i wonder why the **** scientists won't debate creationists?

if creationists would play fair and not simply reject evidence because they don't like it, or use unproven/false evidence for their case, it would be destroyed anyways.

 

[Cat Fuzz]

As far as I'm concerned, God created the world. The hows and whys of it will be made clear to me later. I don't care about "evidence". I see plenty of evidence of God's creation. Some people choose not to recognize it. trying to convince me that I am wrong is a waste of time. I will not abandon my faith. However, me trying to convince you seems like a waste of time, but it isn't. If you're right, I lose nothing. If I'm right, you're seperated from God for eternity. God doesn't want that and neither do I.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

Believing in god the way the bible presents it is self-delusional. You don’t lose? Yes, you do.

You lose whenever you waste your time praying to nothing. You lose every time you go to church thinking some magical being sees you going there. You lose when you waste the precious little time you have here on earth thinking there is some being, some-freakin’-where, who is a god just like ignorant people over thousands of years wasted their time worshipping idols, volcanoes, the leader of the tribe, etc. etc. You burn up gas going to some church, the church uses up energy, the bibles use up valuable resources…. all so people can feel better about some being they have never, ever seen before in their lives. I said never, ever…. never, ever….. never, ever….. seen before in their lives. At least the idol people have something tangible to look at and worship. I can imagine them thinking this “thin-air” god of yours is ridiculous.

This self-serving, pat-on-the-back idealism suggests people who feel their lives aren’t complete and need more; anything….anything freakin’ “make me feel better about myself, somehow” thing that can make up for the inadequacies of their life and hold them like mama used to do and kiss their booboos and tell them everything is alright. Pathetic.

You see, if I carved a figure out of a bar of soap and knelt down everyday for fours hours praying to it, you’d think I was ignorant and wasting my life. But somehow, this intangible god of yours ranks above my bar of soap figurine.

 

[ReD_Fist]

way to read the rest of the point.

if every idea was deserving of debate, we'd never stop debating. you cannot possibly argue for creationism, it is simply impossible, there is nothing to say.

the only thing you can do is argue against evolution, and that effectively happens every time a piece about evolution is published in any peer reviewed journal.

the problem here is creationists have a tendency to simply make up evidence that supposedly contradicts evolution, or denying that evidence of evolution exists


for example, hoyle's (who is an applied mathematician btw) probability of an enzyme forming has been shown to be false by people actually in related fields like chemistry and biology. yet creationists quote it all the time.

or thermodynamics, which flatly does not contradict evolution (read the whole statement before making claims with it), is quoted in every creationism/evolution debate i've ever seen.

the dino footprints with man has also been shown to be false, yet it is quoted sometimes.

then there is the classic irreducable complexity argument, while it is a more difficult point to explain, it is not an argument for creationism (see second point). furthermore creationists using this argument have had to change their irreducably complex organ of choice many times as they are proven to not be irreducable. just because it is harder to explain/we don't know yet, doesn't mean we won't know soon.

then we have many examples of people denying evidence for evolution in this very thread. demanding evidence of transitional forms, then simply rejecting it when it is posted. any even partly complete chain of evolution between species is rejected as microevolution (i like how the definition of this word expands to suit creationist's needs on demand). eventually you will have to regard all evolution as microevolution if the trend from this thread continues.


hmm, i wonder why the **** scientists won't debate creationists?

if creationists would play fair and not simply reject evidence because they don't like it, or use unproven/false evidence for their case, it would be destroyed anyways.

Oh now.......................
You guys just HAVE to admit we are more than just biological creatures,running around on a planet,wich suites life perfectly.

maaan that post is the most ultra mode of thinking wich is wrong.
go pray boy .........hehe.

 

[ReD_Fist]

Believing in god the way the bible presents it is self-delusional. You don’t lose? Yes, you do.

You lose whenever you waste your time praying to nothing. You lose every time you go to church thinking some magical being sees you going there. You lose when you waste the precious little time you have here on earth thinking there is some being, some-freakin’-where, who is a god just like ignorant people over thousands of years wasted their time worshipping idols, volcanoes, the leader of the tribe, etc. etc. You burn up gas going to some church, the church uses up energy, the bibles use up valuable resources…. all so people can feel better about some being they have never, ever seen before in their lives. I said never, ever…. never, ever….. never, ever….. seen before in their lives. At least the idol people have something tangible to look at and worship. I can imagine them thinking this “thin-air” god of yours is ridiculous.

This self-serving, pat-on-the-back idealism suggests people who feel their lives aren’t complete and need more; anything….anything freakin’ “make me feel better about myself, somehow” thing that can make up for the inadequacies of their life and hold them like mama used to do and kiss their booboos and tell them everything is alright. Pathetic.

You see, if I carved a figure out of a bar of soap and knelt down everyday for fours hours praying to it, you’d think I was ignorant and wasting my life. But somehow, this intangible god of yours ranks above my bar of soap figurine.

Well thats against 99% of the worlds view,possibly more,cause there is somthing more than just us here on earth.god or no god.