Ranger underpowered? discuss.
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I started as a ranger, then took a 2 month break and came back as gunner.
Anyway, there does seem to be servers that are more prone to newcomers and the oldtimers. Alpha usually has the oldtimers and I was just at another server with the newcomers. The newcomers were fun to play with and are learning fast on how to use energy and whatnot and deploys, so it was fun playing with them. And its always good to answer questions they have. Our Alpha server is rarely passworded and we want everyone to come play and have a good time.
It is not hard to adopt to the UT changes with dodgeing and stuff. At first I was like aw man, this is a lot different. But then after a while it turns out to be ok and it makes it like everyone else; the newcomers. They dont know how the U2 dodge was, so its ok that we dodge the same way they know. The HUD is growing on me too. I can tell quickly whats what and such.
Once the weapons are "fixed" and headshots are implemented in the next patch, I think a lot of people will see things differently.
Anyway, there does seem to be servers that are more prone to newcomers and the oldtimers. Alpha usually has the oldtimers and I was just at another server with the newcomers. The newcomers were fun to play with and are learning fast on how to use energy and whatnot and deploys, so it was fun playing with them. And its always good to answer questions they have. Our Alpha server is rarely passworded and we want everyone to come play and have a good time.
It is not hard to adopt to the UT changes with dodgeing and stuff. At first I was like aw man, this is a lot different. But then after a while it turns out to be ok and it makes it like everyone else; the newcomers. They dont know how the U2 dodge was, so its ok that we dodge the same way they know. The HUD is growing on me too. I can tell quickly whats what and such.
Once the weapons are "fixed" and headshots are implemented in the next patch, I think a lot of people will see things differently.
IndianPsycho said:
I think what most of the original XMP players want is what you offered to us all when you originally came forth with your UTXMP idea; a total conversion of U2XMP for UT2k4. Of course this is going to tailor to people who have played longer, but you can't try to account for every n00b that is going to join UTXMP. Over time the new people to UTXMP will be pros too, and then what about the new people after them? It just takes time to get good at any game, and if they can't tough it out, then at least we have a larger player base in which a number of people ARE going to make the effort.
You've lead us to believe that UTXMP was going to be as close to U2XMP as possible, and I believe that's all we've really been asking for.
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![[pet]gerbil!](/data/avatars/s/43/43976.jpg?1424422870){kind=avatar}
Hmm, I agree with the smelly panda here. I remember when I finally got the full non-demo version of xmp I got my ass handed to me continously by people not worthy of my memory. And hey I just took up counter-strike, and I'm not scared of being continously owned by people I don't ever see. I play and get better. If I were to cry about the "insane" skill of elite players and then give up playing a game because of said elite players I'd call myself a ***** and a loser. I think u2:xmp was easy to start playing, and hard to master. And it was like crack. Can FMI give me that? I hope so. Hats off to FMI so far though.
Sir_Brizz said:
your key words are AT CLOSER RANGES it is a freeking 50 cal.sniper rifle for gods sake it is not meant for CLOSER ranges it is meant for long range sniping ,the very reason i posted what i did it does NOT work at LONG distance,what good is a sniper rifle if you can not snipe with it ?
Yukkoman--
You are clearly an idiot. Your posts indicate that you don't care one whit about the success of UTXMP as long as it has every single exact detail that U2XMP had. That is reclusive and dumb, gametypes and mods don't get successful by copying line for line what's already been done (nope not even XMP).
Jurai--
You are so convincing, you and your one post.
Magwa--
It should be harder to hit stuff at closer range. Right now it's got the same problem the Lighting Gun in 2k4 has. Easier to hit the closer you are.
You are clearly an idiot. Your posts indicate that you don't care one whit about the success of UTXMP as long as it has every single exact detail that U2XMP had. That is reclusive and dumb, gametypes and mods don't get successful by copying line for line what's already been done (nope not even XMP).
Jurai--
You are so convincing, you and your one post.
Magwa--
It should be harder to hit stuff at closer range. Right now it's got the same problem the Lighting Gun in 2k4 has. Easier to hit the closer you are.
![[[Vash]]](/data/avatars/s/40/40597.jpg?1424422860){kind=avatar}
Time for my 2 Cents or just a late-night babble?
Yes at first glance with U2:XMP I did not wish to be Ranger-class because a) less armor, thus die quicker when up against tech/gunner b) hacking time is sh!tty compared to the tech. c) close-quarter combat sucks.
People that do come to UT:XMP will probably play as Tech, or in this beta's case the Gunner. When people get used to the gameplay, more will become comfortable as a Ranger. This includes the much-needed changes to the Ranger class that will/hopefully/need to come along.
Exactly. A sniper rifle's purpose is NOT meant for close quarter combat, however when I used to run out of ammo with the pistol in U2, hell I don't care I just wanted to survive, so I'd use it.
Granted this is not Counter-Strike where you have dumb@sses running around with huge freaking sniper rifles (AWP anyone?) dominating the damn maps. This is class-based (thank the Maker and FMI). I'll probably get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyways, but IMO the Rocket Launcher is one of those weapons like the Sniper rifle that wasn't meant for close quarter combat.
Let's be realistic: .50 Cal Sniper Rifle shot versus Rocket with splash damage. You tell me. Yes it does depend on the player and their skill, but still, stand alone rocket>.50 round
Ok this ends my late-night sleepless b.s.
Captain Kewl said:
Yes at first glance with U2:XMP I did not wish to be Ranger-class because a) less armor, thus die quicker when up against tech/gunner b) hacking time is sh!tty compared to the tech. c) close-quarter combat sucks.
People that do come to UT:XMP will probably play as Tech, or in this beta's case the Gunner. When people get used to the gameplay, more will become comfortable as a Ranger. This includes the much-needed changes to the Ranger class that will/hopefully/need to come along.
Magwa said:
Exactly. A sniper rifle's purpose is NOT meant for close quarter combat, however when I used to run out of ammo with the pistol in U2, hell I don't care I just wanted to survive, so I'd use it.
Granted this is not Counter-Strike where you have dumb@sses running around with huge freaking sniper rifles (AWP anyone?) dominating the damn maps. This is class-based (thank the Maker and FMI). I'll probably get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyways, but IMO the Rocket Launcher is one of those weapons like the Sniper rifle that wasn't meant for close quarter combat.
Let's be realistic: .50 Cal Sniper Rifle shot versus Rocket with splash damage. You tell me. Yes it does depend on the player and their skill, but still, stand alone rocket>.50 round
Ok this ends my late-night sleepless b.s.
well there are some very good points in this tread kudos to everyone ,i want people to understand i am not attcking in any way shape or form FMI,i think they are doing a great job trying to bring back XMP in a way that will benifit all players .My concern is how did all of these bug,problems etc get past the beta testers ? something is rotten in demark and it ain't the fish!
XMP in U2 was IMO very balanced you had a huge tradeoff to play any of the classes ranger had good sniper rifle speed health and the smoke and pistol but was week in armour a fair deal IMO tech had leet hacking shotgun for close quarters etcbetter armour but was slower than ranger again good trade,gunner slowest yet BUT great armour and weapons ,If any aspect of this is changed it throws off the games balance,as the beta is now it is a tech and gunner show they have all the same things they had in U2 version but the ranger does not have the same equipment why? how could this ever bethis way? some one somewhere has nerfed the ranger for unknown reasons and they really do not matter what matters is XMP being as close to the original in classes and gameplay as the ut2k4 engine will allow,then if you want to change something ask the players the game as it is now is unplayable to me due to the loppsided classes.
when i played U2 xmp i played as a ranger i did not take on either techs or gunners at close quarters if i could avoid it but i would snipe them from long range and then tell my team mates that so and so was clear to proceed to whatever objective they were trying to accomplish,why cause they are tough and a rangers armour is week BUt i could have my day as well cause i was faster and could run away from them now i can not hardly outrun anyone ,i can not shoot long distance and my armour is still week why is it so hard for some people to understand this is beyond me.
XMP in U2 was IMO very balanced you had a huge tradeoff to play any of the classes ranger had good sniper rifle speed health and the smoke and pistol but was week in armour a fair deal IMO tech had leet hacking shotgun for close quarters etcbetter armour but was slower than ranger again good trade,gunner slowest yet BUT great armour and weapons ,If any aspect of this is changed it throws off the games balance,as the beta is now it is a tech and gunner show they have all the same things they had in U2 version but the ranger does not have the same equipment why? how could this ever bethis way? some one somewhere has nerfed the ranger for unknown reasons and they really do not matter what matters is XMP being as close to the original in classes and gameplay as the ut2k4 engine will allow,then if you want to change something ask the players the game as it is now is unplayable to me due to the loppsided classes.
when i played U2 xmp i played as a ranger i did not take on either techs or gunners at close quarters if i could avoid it but i would snipe them from long range and then tell my team mates that so and so was clear to proceed to whatever objective they were trying to accomplish,why cause they are tough and a rangers armour is week BUt i could have my day as well cause i was faster and could run away from them now i can not hardly outrun anyone ,i can not shoot long distance and my armour is still week why is it so hard for some people to understand this is beyond me.
Sir_Brizz said:
plesse explain this then: http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/mods.asp?id=1111&s=1
and are not the whole Unreal thing built on copying previos games?
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal 2
Unreal XMP
Unreal tournament 2004
I always found XMP have some kind of holy trinity. Each class had it own battleground. Each class had an advantage over the next, but had its own weaknesses. Even the med-packs and deployables where equally matched.
For instance, although a ranger's best battlefield is outside, you'll need one in a base raid for reviving and med-packs. Although Gunners have a better advantage camping doors with their flamethrower, rocketlauncher, grenadelauncher and explosives. You'll need a tech to crack the doors quickly enough. Next thing is that when going for deploypoints, outside may be the rangers most optimal enviroment, a ranger can only take on enemies one by one. You'll need the heavy punch of the gunner when there is a sudden deploy. Rangers do not have that much ammo. This in a way rules out infinit camping unless a gunner is nearby with supplies. The tech otoh is much needed on both defense and offence. The tech is the all round guys who excels at the strategic portion of a game. Placing remote defenses, keeping the energy up and making sure deploypoints are covered. Next to that, it's incredible hacking speed make it a true thread, even if you have a few seconds before deploy, the chance is great that when a tech is hacking it, you'll lose it, either with or without spawning.
Each class has its own advantage, and of course their are those moments when a class just truly excels in their task, like sneaking up to people as a ranger and killing them with 4 headshots (secondary and primary combo) but getting close enough is the trick, not the 4 hs combo. Just like the tech waiting for someone to hack the door and spray them with the secondary shotgun. Or a gunner lacing the node with mines, which'll make the rocketlauncer even more effective.
Well, to sum this small essay a bit up, I do not feel there is something wrong with the current balance. Every class has some kind of attack that either outranges, outpowers or outnumbers another class. Including the rangers range with the sniper, the powerfull combo with the hg, the Techs shotgun and the powerfull secondary, the secondary assaultrifle (which makes short work of most vehicles from a distance) or their grenadelauncher with two of the most powerfull nades. And the gunner, packed with explosive weapons and deployables, being able to make every corridor hazardous, even after he visited it.
XMP = holy trinity of strategic teamplay, in more ways than is viewable on the surface.
For instance, although a ranger's best battlefield is outside, you'll need one in a base raid for reviving and med-packs. Although Gunners have a better advantage camping doors with their flamethrower, rocketlauncher, grenadelauncher and explosives. You'll need a tech to crack the doors quickly enough. Next thing is that when going for deploypoints, outside may be the rangers most optimal enviroment, a ranger can only take on enemies one by one. You'll need the heavy punch of the gunner when there is a sudden deploy. Rangers do not have that much ammo. This in a way rules out infinit camping unless a gunner is nearby with supplies. The tech otoh is much needed on both defense and offence. The tech is the all round guys who excels at the strategic portion of a game. Placing remote defenses, keeping the energy up and making sure deploypoints are covered. Next to that, it's incredible hacking speed make it a true thread, even if you have a few seconds before deploy, the chance is great that when a tech is hacking it, you'll lose it, either with or without spawning.
Each class has its own advantage, and of course their are those moments when a class just truly excels in their task, like sneaking up to people as a ranger and killing them with 4 headshots (secondary and primary combo) but getting close enough is the trick, not the 4 hs combo. Just like the tech waiting for someone to hack the door and spray them with the secondary shotgun. Or a gunner lacing the node with mines, which'll make the rocketlauncer even more effective.
Well, to sum this small essay a bit up, I do not feel there is something wrong with the current balance. Every class has some kind of attack that either outranges, outpowers or outnumbers another class. Including the rangers range with the sniper, the powerfull combo with the hg, the Techs shotgun and the powerfull secondary, the secondary assaultrifle (which makes short work of most vehicles from a distance) or their grenadelauncher with two of the most powerfull nades. And the gunner, packed with explosive weapons and deployables, being able to make every corridor hazardous, even after he visited it.
XMP = holy trinity of strategic teamplay, in more ways than is viewable on the surface.
Ranger!!!
I love this retard Brizz guy. When you've played u2xmp for more than 5 seconds then come back here and talk. You are beginning to bore me.
Indianpsycho-
So basically what your saying is that you want this game more accessible to n00bs? That's fine, everyone knows we need a bigger community this time round. But does that mean we who played xmp should start from scratch? Our efforts to become 133t completely pointless, completely nullified???
I agree xmp had community size problems but by making utxmp so that the pro players are no longer pro at all, do you really think they are going to have the patience to hang around? Spending so long becoming good players, especially with ranger only to find that it was utterly pointless because when it comes to testing their skills, they find they are useless.
All I am saying is that utxmp is not balanced, the gunner moves as fast as a ranger now, everything that made the ranger a ranger is pretty much gone from utxmp at the moment.
All we are asking for is for the ranger to be playable. The tech and gunner are similar to u2xmp, so why can't the ranger be too? We just want the ranger to be usable.
Otherwise all those who played u2xmp you will find leaving this game the more diasappointing the new releases become without some sort of alteration to ranger, giving it back the qualties which made it a "ranger" in the first instance.
Brizz, if I'm so "convincing" with my first post then stfu, you are clearly a n00b who probably runs in straight lines spamming turrets and gas all day. You clearly know nothing of u2xmp and you have no idea what problems need to be adressed in utxmp to make it into the amazing game it has the potential to be.
We realise this is a beta and so we post constructive criticism, hopefully to improve this game, making it accessible and PLAYABLE (which the ranger currently isn't).
The idea is that this is a beta so we can find bugs ourselves and conseqently, they can be fixed. In my opinion, the ranger itself is a bug! If everything that distinguished it is gone, as is currently the case, then ranger becomes redundant.
All we want is for this major problem to be adressed, otherwise we have spent time honing our skills for nothing, no reward, no nothing.
Clans will seize to exist without a ranger for many reasons.
At the end of the day, if the problem of ranger isn't dealt with, utxmp will not survive (just as our beloved xmp hasn't because of those bastards atari ). Do you think its a coincidence that there have been so many posts, all saying mostly the same thing???
We are hoping that with these forums FMI can tweak these problems, returning as close as possible to u2xmp, only then is it realistically possible for them to improve upon that, fixing the little details of u2xmp, thus creating one f***ing hell of a game, greater than u2xmp ever was.
Brizz, if you are going to reply to this, don't bother if you are just going to talk crap about somthing that you clearly do not know enough about and possess little experiece of.
I love this retard Brizz guy. When you've played u2xmp for more than 5 seconds then come back here and talk. You are beginning to bore me.
Indianpsycho-
So basically what your saying is that you want this game more accessible to n00bs? That's fine, everyone knows we need a bigger community this time round. But does that mean we who played xmp should start from scratch? Our efforts to become 133t completely pointless, completely nullified???
I agree xmp had community size problems but by making utxmp so that the pro players are no longer pro at all, do you really think they are going to have the patience to hang around? Spending so long becoming good players, especially with ranger only to find that it was utterly pointless because when it comes to testing their skills, they find they are useless.
All I am saying is that utxmp is not balanced, the gunner moves as fast as a ranger now, everything that made the ranger a ranger is pretty much gone from utxmp at the moment.
All we are asking for is for the ranger to be playable. The tech and gunner are similar to u2xmp, so why can't the ranger be too? We just want the ranger to be usable.
Otherwise all those who played u2xmp you will find leaving this game the more diasappointing the new releases become without some sort of alteration to ranger, giving it back the qualties which made it a "ranger" in the first instance.
Brizz, if I'm so "convincing" with my first post then stfu, you are clearly a n00b who probably runs in straight lines spamming turrets and gas all day. You clearly know nothing of u2xmp and you have no idea what problems need to be adressed in utxmp to make it into the amazing game it has the potential to be.
We realise this is a beta and so we post constructive criticism, hopefully to improve this game, making it accessible and PLAYABLE (which the ranger currently isn't).
The idea is that this is a beta so we can find bugs ourselves and conseqently, they can be fixed. In my opinion, the ranger itself is a bug! If everything that distinguished it is gone, as is currently the case, then ranger becomes redundant.
All we want is for this major problem to be adressed, otherwise we have spent time honing our skills for nothing, no reward, no nothing.
Clans will seize to exist without a ranger for many reasons.
At the end of the day, if the problem of ranger isn't dealt with, utxmp will not survive (just as our beloved xmp hasn't because of those bastards atari
). Do you think its a coincidence that there have been so many posts, all saying mostly the same thing???We are hoping that with these forums FMI can tweak these problems, returning as close as possible to u2xmp, only then is it realistically possible for them to improve upon that, fixing the little details of u2xmp, thus creating one f***ing hell of a game, greater than u2xmp ever was.
Brizz, if you are going to reply to this, don't bother if you are just going to talk crap about somthing that you clearly do not know enough about and possess little experiece of.
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hey! youve got it! thats the way how competative games(Q3, UT) work. good players should have the opportunity to get an advantage of their skill, while the newbies still can get better.IndianPsycho said:
Any other way would be lucking up the gameplay like it is in CS; huge hitzones so that everybody can do a headshot.
But that ist like throwing the queen out of chess, becouse the new players get owned by it.
It must not be the primary aim of a game to be noob friendly.
Make it as competative as possible and as noob friendly as necessery.
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Not quiteMcKain said:
Original
New weapons, tweaked movement, better netcode.
New weapons, better movement, better netcode, better graphics
Related in name only
Unreal 2 weapons, tweaked balance, better movement, better graphics, better netcode
better balance, better netcode, better weapons, vehicles, two new gametypes, etc etc etc
So where exactly is the copying? In every iteration at least two things were changed. Just because they all are named Unreal doesn't mean they copied the last game to make the next one. You can MAYBE say that between Unreal 1 -> UT and UT2003 -> UT2004 simply because they weren't huge leaps in gaming quality. But, IMO, they were still different enough to make a them different games. IMO U2XMP->UTXMP should be AT LEAST the difference between U1->UT if not UT2003->UT2004.
Jurai--
Perhaps you ought to stop posting worthless posts that are simply of ataricommunity quality. They are generally unacceptable here. I'm glad you love to make assumptions and know absolutely nothing about me at all, so you couldn't possibly know how I play XMP, But you like to guess and be a noob. You like to call people names because you are too stupid to figure out what they are trying to say. And you are just like half the other people here who only care about their class of choice.
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You maybe missed something, but ATARI did cut off XMP support from the players before even XMP had a chance to get big, but you probably didnt even play during the few weeks the game had support, and even this beta is having a great rate of ppl and servers poping up, so why are you insulting me to be an idiot over wanting XMP back in the state it was prior to loosing support before adding new fancy content for the new players when clearly so many are interested in this MOD/game..Sir_Brizz said:
You can call me idiot as much you want as I dont care, clearly you dont know the possiblities of XMP as it was so complex and you probalbly havnt looked around enoth to see the options the game had, but be called an idiot over refering to a Total Conversion is another matter, I and many have longed for this sk Total thing for months, and stayed within the XMP comunity playing leagues etc just w8ing for UT:XMP, and we dont want it to fail, we just dont want it to lack features XMP had, so Brizz once again, get facts.
http://www.free-monkey.com/main/
http://www.free-monkey.com/main/utxmp.php
http://www.free-monkey.com/main/promo/UTXMP_PROMO_1FINAL.jpg
http://www.free-monkey.com/main/promo/UTXMP_PROMO_2FINAL.jpg
http://www.free-monkey.com/main/promo/UTXMP_PROMO_3FINAL.jpg
Every dam release and info have this total conversion note in em Brizz, so that is whats make me an idiot..
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