Lack of really good custom content is sad
- Thread starter Anuban
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Strogg (who mapped for UT and UT2k4) just released a new UT3 level
http://www.strogg.de/
Just give it some time, mapping takes a lot longer this time around. We probably won't see the amount of high quality content to the degree we did with past UT's, but that's to be expected as the technology becomes more complex.
http://www.strogg.de/
Just give it some time, mapping takes a lot longer this time around. We probably won't see the amount of high quality content to the degree we did with past UT's, but that's to be expected as the technology becomes more complex.
That's nice and different and I do have it actually. And I totally understand what you are saying ... lets hope that in time we have some more great content.
Hey, speaking of content (not custom though), you know what I miss? Being teased with upcoming announcements from EPIC like before UT3 came out Gave me something to look forward to I guess. Anyway, can't wait for content to start rolling in, custom and official
Gave me something to look forward to I guess. Anyway, can't wait for content to start rolling in, custom and official 
I can't speak for others but I know I'm going as fast as I can (which is slow) and there's content on the way.
That being said I'm also not just releasing a map -- I'm basically turning the whole gametype on it's head.
Basically I decided I'd try to see how CTF would work with a Warfare node determining whether or not a team's flag is accessible to be grabbed.
There is some Epic meshes in there as well but you cant really tell since its lighting only mode
Actually, I can
But this is indeed looking great, I'm looking forward to it 
Yikes! If you are doing what I think you are doing we're going to need boxes of Depends just to complete a capture.
Its just too much time to invest for the casual mapper to create a full custom map, especially if all they have to start with is a limited knowledge of UED.
Those who started mapping in the early days of UT started at the right time. As 3d gfx were developing and the scope of what you could produce was more limited. As new technologies emerge they could incorporate them into their skill set. The scope of what goes into a map these days is enormous. I wonder if the professional level designers who have commented on this thread create all their own content for the maps they work on or if they work on their maps as part of a team with certain individuals focusing on creating custom assets.
For someone to start mapping now to get to a high level of competency to create a pro-ish map with a good amount of custom assets, they will need to learn UED, 3dmax, ZBrush and Photoshop and all the while developing that eye for design AND gain that sense of what makes a good playable level.
Personally i can use all the above, i do have a design background (not games) and i still wouldn't make a full custom map because 1- i'm a casual mapper with zero desire to get into the industry and 2 - it would be far too time consuming, i would have to give up every other freetime project i had on for a number of months.
I think if the community demands that all their mappers produce fully custom maps then they are going to see a lot less emerging talent coming through as compared to ye olde 99/2k4 days as the demands are far too great, especially for the casual, time deficient mapper.
Mappers today for UT need to be given a LOT more custom assets to play with, otherwise by the time they've finally created their own unique map the rest of us will be playing UT4. I think one solution i would like to see is if epic released a lot more custom assets and introduce a few more new styles, maybe to compliment some new teams for the game. I think another 5 new styles of custom meshes for mappers to draw upon would really help.
Those who started mapping in the early days of UT started at the right time. As 3d gfx were developing and the scope of what you could produce was more limited. As new technologies emerge they could incorporate them into their skill set. The scope of what goes into a map these days is enormous. I wonder if the professional level designers who have commented on this thread create all their own content for the maps they work on or if they work on their maps as part of a team with certain individuals focusing on creating custom assets.
For someone to start mapping now to get to a high level of competency to create a pro-ish map with a good amount of custom assets, they will need to learn UED, 3dmax, ZBrush and Photoshop and all the while developing that eye for design AND gain that sense of what makes a good playable level.
Personally i can use all the above, i do have a design background (not games) and i still wouldn't make a full custom map because 1- i'm a casual mapper with zero desire to get into the industry and 2 - it would be far too time consuming, i would have to give up every other freetime project i had on for a number of months.
I think if the community demands that all their mappers produce fully custom maps then they are going to see a lot less emerging talent coming through as compared to ye olde 99/2k4 days as the demands are far too great, especially for the casual, time deficient mapper.
Mappers today for UT need to be given a LOT more custom assets to play with, otherwise by the time they've finally created their own unique map the rest of us will be playing UT4. I think one solution i would like to see is if epic released a lot more custom assets and introduce a few more new styles, maybe to compliment some new teams for the game. I think another 5 new styles of custom meshes for mappers to draw upon would really help.
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It's alittle bit of both. There is no denying how time consuming UE3 mapping is. Especially if you want to make something truly "custom", and use your own assets (meshes,textures etc). Hourences is not a great example, as he has probaly had builds of UE3 for 2 years or more. Most of the community did not get ahold of it until UT3 was released, or Roboblitz. Most of the work already completed was indeed started in RoboBlitz. So the time curve invovled is fairly sizeable. You know my Deadbolt map all too well Leth, to remake it in UE3, would take twice the time or more to create in UE3, than if I decided to re-do it form scrtach all over again in UE2. It just takes forever by comparison to make a simple material. Most of the "mapping" is based upon modeling. So if you want a look that is not that of the stock maps and other noob user maps, your going to spend 6 months on the assets and the map itself easily. Not only are you not getting paid for this, but many times you are taken for granted by not only Epic games, but the community as well.
Having said that, and being a mapper myself. Being motivated to endure the time and patience goes hand and hand with passion for the game. I loved playing UT2004 everyday. I can't bring myself to play UT3 for more than 5 minutes. Even when I try to be diplomatic about it. IT's just not fun, which in turn provides VERY little motivation to create custom content. Then there is the fact few out of a few will play your work....
Not alot of incentive there. I like people to play my stuff, and enjoy it. If that's not happening, then no point in it for me.
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I find materials to be really easy to put together in UT3. You can put together 80-90 instruction complex materials in around 15 minutes if you have a good idea what you're trying to achieve.
This whole thing kind of highlights something that I've noticed occurring in the game industry lately - indie devs are being pushed out of the FPS and other big-money genres, simply because content these days is so expensive to make that they can't compete.
The same thing is happening with modding - content creation is getting to be such a massive undertaking, because no one wants to release a mod with two year old graphics, that it's fast becoming an arena for big-number teams full of people with pro-level talent. It's not necessarily a bad or good thing, it's just the recent trend. Personally I wouldn't mind making an older looking game if it was easier, faster, and more fun, but that's just me.
The same thing is happening with modding - content creation is getting to be such a massive undertaking, because no one wants to release a mod with two year old graphics, that it's fast becoming an arena for big-number teams full of people with pro-level talent. It's not necessarily a bad or good thing, it's just the recent trend. Personally I wouldn't mind making an older looking game if it was easier, faster, and more fun, but that's just me.
One thing I worry about a little. This could just be a different view for everyone now, but still, the danger when rendering options get more and more intense is that all maps risk looking quite the same. Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but the more bloom and fog effects there are, the more you get the opinion all maps are very little different from one another. Maybe it just depends on how everyone sees them but yeah.
What I hope Epic will do is try to make maps even more different from one another. What's not present at all in UT3 is a brighter map under a more clear and blue sky for example. All skies in the current maps are always dark gray like everything is under a storm. Also, they should try making a fire-cave like map, like a map I seen once in some underground places where there is lava over the walls and some dungeons and everything is in a fire red ambiance. A map where the action would take place more underwater really wouldn't hurt either.
What I hope Epic will do is try to make maps even more different from one another. What's not present at all in UT3 is a brighter map under a more clear and blue sky for example. All skies in the current maps are always dark gray like everything is under a storm. Also, they should try making a fire-cave like map, like a map I seen once in some underground places where there is lava over the walls and some dungeons and everything is in a fire red ambiance. A map where the action would take place more underwater really wouldn't hurt either.
^^^ All the maps are not grey ... Maybe its your post processing option or something but Definance, CTF-Reflection, Rising Sun and Shangri-La are all pretty sunny maps with blue skies. And also wait until you see War-ChainIsle ... talk about a bright and sunny map.
I do appreciate all the comments posted to this thread and this is what I wanted to happen ... People talking about level design and projects, etc.
I do appreciate all the comments posted to this thread and this is what I wanted to happen ... People talking about level design and projects, etc.
Just to show there are other opinions about the state of user created content
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=604791
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=604791
Well i personally think the custom content is as strong as it has ever been. I just hope people start making more BSP only DM and CTF maps, in the style of the HOLP map pack. It prevents everything from looking too similar if people can't create there own content.
True, I'm making maps for UT3 but I hardly play it
Not because I don't like the game but because it takes away the time I need to put into making the maps. UT3 maps don't take a whole lot longer than UT2k4 maps to make if your not doing custom content. As others have said the custom content for this game does take a bit longer to make. I can tell you that there are some really amazing maps coming out 
I do not agree. ANYONE can make content in the forms of maps, models, textures, and so on. Only the DETERMINED make good content. It's hard to attract talent when there's very little incentive and so many negatives behind a product. Lot's of people are picking up the Sandbox 2 editor for the first time and making a mixture of great and no-so-great content for Crysis. For months now they've been winning the PR war when it comes to content-creators because there's tons of documentation, tutorials, and available developers interacting with their community, not to mention the established contest that's been running. It's a totally different place than all the UT3 forums. For me there's more incentive to make stuff for Crysis and not UT3. Creating content takes time, yes, but people have always been up to the challenge.
You admitted yourself that you would have pre-emptively deleted this kind of civil discussion mere hours after it had been posted if it appeared on the utforums. You already made that clear with your suggestion of this being a sadness/whine thread on the previous page. Here we have both sides of the story.Just to show there are other opinions about the state of user created content
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=604791
Quantity does NOT equal Quality.
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I agree with you mostly about only the determined ones getting anything good done. But for the comment on Crysis having more people making stuff for it, thats likely due to the fact that the game is a lot easier to make levels for. Basically all you have to deal with are giant open terrain levels with a few buildings here and there while UT3 has terrains plus extremely detailed architecture.