Lack of really good custom content is sad

[Anuban]

Where is the quality content in comparison to UT of years past?

I really can't believe that 3 months later there is a real dearth of really good user created content. The mutators are cool but I am talking about totally original levels (not to take anything away from the great remakes that are around as I have them all) and even more important to a bot fanatic like me custom models. As I have said previously if it weren't for EE and Davision there would be NO really top notch quality custom models and if not for Davision no completely new and unique custom models. That really makes me shake my head in disbelief. I remember having tons of great skins and models by this time after the release of both UT2K3 and UT2K4 (and I mean new ones not just imported from UT2K3) so for me this is really unbelievable ... this was the main reason I bought UT3 ... I expected by now to have at least 50 quality levels that are not remakes (the HOLP pack is nice but I mean UT3 level maps that take advantage of the new engine) and no less than 25-30 good models/skin jobs and even a few really high quality new weapons and vehicles ... what is going on?

Can some of the modders tell me why there is such a scarcity of really good quality user created content ... especially when it comes to models. And yes I have to say that all the best levels are remakes of some kind or another whether faithful or just layout wise with lots of visual upgrades. I seriously cannot list but a handful of top notch wholly original levels ... and I am not trying to put anyone at all down. I think you know what I mean. I like having fun levels that look good ... that's fine and I appreciate a lot of these first time or second time efforts ... but damn I want those Teddie, Angelmapper, Angelheart, Hourences (thanks for Krodan ... that is one of the levels I was talking about), Desp, Slain (he does have one coming), Clawfist, Cox, Soma, and co. , that I grew accustomed to with UT2k4. Man there were soooo many quality maps for that game even in the first three months. Maybe it was all due to the MSU contest ... if that was the case we desperately need another one. A game like UT3 depends a lot on custom content to keep it alive ... even Mark has admitted this ... so come on Epic announce some type of contest already please.

Edit: I want more quality unique user created content like Kantham's Atlas City for example ... in fact Kantham is one of the few mappers that is making high quality unique content so hats off to him ... but we need some good DM maps as well. Thankfully there are mappers like Setheran around for that. Like I said I love the great remakes that the other mappers like BigDragon, Ignotium, Lord Strider, NeoGzus, Bazz, Morg, NiceGuyEddie, etc. have made but I want to see more original works and I think the rest of the community does as well. Of course all of this great content is free and I appreciate it greatly and I more than anyone know that this is a hobby for most, still if the passion is gone maybe someone should tell me so I don't expect things to be like they were for past UTs.

 

[Phopojijo]

Next-Gen assets take a lot longer to build -- and the game came out during University season. That really cuts down the amount of time I have to work on stuff.

Other people -- dunno.

 

[Lethargy]

Next-Gen assets take a lot longer to build -- and the game came out during University season. That really cuts down the amount of time I have to work on stuff.

Other people -- dunno.

Look how fast Hourences made Krodan... and that map looked and ran better than any stock UT3 map. I'm not sure we can attribute the lack of content to merely time. As far as I can tell, they moved to other things because the game was so flawed.

 

[Anuban]

^^^ Well to be fair we don't know how long it took Hourences to do his map ... he had had access to the engine and the game for a longer time than any of us. He could have even had it pretty much done already done for all we know. Maybe there is some correlation to the fact that this come out around the School season. I don't know either but I sure wish it would improve and soon.

 

[T2A`]

Plus, Krodan is all custom content created in 3D Studio Max, so he could have built all the stuff to be used in the map long before the game came out.

The overall lack of content is probably a combination of a few things, one of which is very likely to be that maps for UT3 take a while to make (minus things like the HOLP pack). There's a lot of decent retail content, more than UT2004, I'd say, but truly custom stuff probably takes forever to create.

Secondly, the (un)popularity of the game is probably a big factor. I don't know how many people play offline but the online counts are abysmal, and perhaps the idea of spending all that time making something for such a potentially small audience isn't one that drives motivation.

 

[Jordan L]

I'm actually glad this time around theres a lack of content. Anyhow, UT2004 is at the point where you don't even see the real game in most cases. It's been to lacerated in mutators, mod's, and maps, its hard to even find a clean server anymore unless its a Demo Server. I hope UT3 doesn't turn into what UT2004 did after its 3 years of life despite what some people might say. One and a half months ago I quit UT3 for about 2 to 3 weeks and installed UT2004 for a final farewell sort of speak.

I mean yeah I wouldn't mind seeing more content like game modes such as Domination which I know is in the works, along with any others like Jailbreak. Just not tons of hapless mutators that completely alter the real game mechanics that were apparent on almost all of the UT2004 servers in 2007-8.

Chaos Team on UT3 looks like they have a pretty interesting project going on though, along with some other Teams out there. Just a while longer until that content will start to come out hopefully for the people that want it.

 

[Anuban]

Yeah okay but no one seems to be talking about the lack of custom models ... now good custom models are always welcome I would think ... and the only models I even play with are the ones by EE and Davision ... just think if it weren't for them there wouldn't even be any good custom models around. And the way the models are made there are not even any skins for the existing ones. Now come one we all know that there were tons of skins at least if not totally new models. So yeah after three months all I see in this area are a lot of folks depending on EE alone pretty much to make all the good models for UT3 ... now tell me that isn't ridiculous.

 

[Unknown Target]

As I understand it, a lot of people are still figuring out how exactly to make custom models work with UT3's new custom character system, and until Epic gets out some good info on it and people develop their own pipelines, we won't see a lot of custom character content.

That, and as games get more complex, the time needed to make their assets gets exponentially larger. It's much harder to make a model for UT3 compared to, say, 2k4 or UT.

And Lethargy, is it really necessary to spout your bile in every thread?

 

[Lethargy]

And Lethargy, is it really necessary to spout your bile in every thread?

It's really 1/10 threads at most, and I am very bitter. Also that IS a contributing factor, people want their work to be played extensively... and excepting the PS3, that won't happen in UT3. Though I guess I was remembering the situation as it was pre-PS3 cooking, maybe that reason is no longer an issue.

 

[haslo]

I think as well that the amount of time you have to put into the editor (or your models) to make them fit into UT3 and to make them look good enough to keep up with the stock content plays a big role. I vastly underestimated the time a level would take as well with mine, and while I thought at first "ooh, custom content, let's add some custom meshes too" I just decided against that in the end for the simple reason that I don't have time for that as well...

Of course on the other hand it means that real talents can craft things like Krodan, and I'm looking forward to more things like that. But those maps take time, and as others have said the level itself was crafted in 3DS Max and could've been mostly done long before the game was even released.

Custom models have a really high poly count, which makes it harder to optimize them and make them look good (with low poly counts that's actually easier, because a lot is left to the imagination of the beholder), and the materials are more complex as well, with translucent skin and modular models. I'm tempted myself there, but just know that with University, the job, and a marriage coming up I won't have the time for it.

 

[ambershee]

^^^ Well to be fair we don't know how long it took Hourences to do his map ... he had had access to the engine and the game for a longer time than any of us. He could have even had it pretty much done already done for all we know. Maybe there is some correlation to the fact that this come out around the School season. I don't know either but I sure wish it would improve and soon.

Not only that, but he'd already have learnt his way around the tool set. Most people are still getting to grips with the new editor and code differences. There's a lot to take in, as it's quite different to 2k4.

 

[UBerserker]

I'm not sad at all.

The custom contents are so damn big in size that they eat my HD in seconds. Every custom character I find is about 100 MB. Damn!

 

[Spank$hot_BT]

I imagine there's no lack of models due to the fact that guys such as those on the polycount boards already have UT3 standard models to hand and can now showcase them in a game. Most mutators are probably much less time consuming than mapping.

As far as the top mappers are concerned then i guess its one of 2 things 1 - if they're creating pure custom maps ie-all custom meshes, sounds etc then it will take much longer than 2k4 map to make. or 2 - they have lost interest in the game and/or want a larger gaming audience to showcase their mapping wares to. Also the fact the hardly noone has custom content on their servers due to all the problems 3.5 months on is another major factor.

Personally, i was halfway through a new map (not remake) when i just got bored of the game. I play maybe once a fortnight at the very most now. compare that to 2k4 which i still play regularly. I was only building to add to the game but if i aren't playing it then there's no point. If the game picks up with new content or mods or UT2k9 then i'll finish it no problem and probably do a lot more. Its a shame really, unrealED as an awesome tool, much better than the game in terms of pure quality.

i think your best hope anuban is to carry on doing what you've been doing and help steer the new mappers in the right direction and hope guys like setheran, kantham etc don't give up on ut3.

Anuban i know you keep a very close eye on the custom mapping scene for UT, would you say there has been a slow down in new content?

I'm not sad at all.

The custom contents are so damn big in size that they eat my HD in seconds. Every custom character I find is about 100 MB. Damn!

Yes, the file sizes are a problem, i think the decision to go so high tech (hence larger files) on the gfx was a bad one personally, not conducive to a game that relies so heavily on custom content.

 

[Slainchild]

Two main things stalling me when it comes to mapping for UT3 (or any other game).

1. Time. I have hardly any time after work these days to work on my own stuff. I usually just end up crashing in front of my PC and browsing the net/IRC and playing a casual game like Cod4 or whatever all night.

2. Motivation. I'd rather do the above mentioned things than map when I get home because I'm using Unreal pretty much all day at work and it does get tiresome.

:tdown::tup:

 

[ambershee]

The file size issue is probably people not reducing the sizes of their light maps and going with the defaults for everything.

 

[MonsOlympus]

I dunno if filesize would be a huge issue or not, sure 100mb is a fair bit for a map but look at how big the ucmp or cbp packs are all up (not to mention TCs). My 2k4 directory is still around double that of my UT3 one, mind you I havent downloaded a great deal of custom maps but there is a few in there

 

[elmuerte]

Personally, i was halfway through a new map (not remake) when i just got bored of the game. I play maybe once a fortnight at the very most now. compare that to 2k4 which i still play regularly. I was only building to add to the game but if i aren't playing it then there's no point. If the game picks up with new content or mods or UT2k9 then i'll finish it no problem and probably do a lot more. Its a shame really, unrealED as an awesome tool, much better than the game in terms of pure quality.

Why do you need to play the game? I never really played UT2003, UT2004 or UT3. But that didn't stop me from creating stuff for it. (note: I don't count testing as playing).
Playing the game gets in the way of creating stuff for the game.

 

[haslo]

The file size issue is probably people not reducing the sizes of their light maps and going with the defaults for everything.

Nah... myself I actually increased my lightmap resolutions by a factor of 5 on all BSP, roughly, it did push the map from 45mb to 50mb uncompressed and from 40 to 42 compressed. And: You can't have detailed maps without higher-res lightmaps, it just looks odd if things don't throw shadows...

Are there tools that show the distribution of what content in a .ut3 takes how much space by the way? Admittedly I really didn't care much for optimizing map size, maybe I should have, considering all the talk about map sizes. I imagined people download stuff outside the game as well, as I do...

 

[Spank$hot_BT]

Why do you need to play the game? I never really played UT2003, UT2004 or UT3. But that didn't stop me from creating stuff for it. (note: I don't count testing as playing).
Playing the game gets in the way of creating stuff for the game.

It seems you build purely for the pleasure of building. I only started building to - hopefully - add to the pleasure of playing it. Unfortunately i find ut3 a less enjoyable and much more limited experience than 2k4 so if i'm rarely going to play then i won't be building.

I would of created maps in the early days of 2k4 but i found the editor to be very disagreeable with my old then system. There is no point making 2k4 maps now, due to the plethora of quality content already in existence.

 

[WarTourist]

I really can't believe that 3 months later there is a real dearth of really good user created content.

We're actually very happy with the quality and volume of mods for UT3: http://utforums.epicgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=341.

Once the contest gets rolling it's going to get even better!