It isn't fun anymore

[[C22]-Acolyte]

Why are these different gamemodes 'heading in different directions'?
Almost any online game out there at least has DM, TDM and CTF.
Same for Infiltration. Why are people who only play one gamemode 'heading into different directions'.
Rav2 was a mod, yea. Bit more than a gamemode.
I'm happy that i can enjoy inf in all modes anyway.

Yes but almost any game that has multiple gamemodes has more players than Inf TDM and DTAS servers are full and EAS servers mostly empty, hardly ever full. Shame to see it happen since it was one of the biggest things I was looking forward to in 2.9, and I'm sure it was one of the features the SS poured in most blood, sweat and cusses.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

The reason I am not all that fond of EAS has to do with the maps. Although most are well made its the linear aspect of the objects. Each time I play on the maps it feels I am playing a bad game of checkers, you do this I do that, repeat. There is a reason Mostar is my favorite.

EAS is a sound idea just the implementation on most maps at the moment does not work for me.

For me DTAS is a new experience most times each round. I do have some problems with it and have pointed those out but is fun.

I will like to point out I prefer the 1 life 1 round concept but for EAS this is not a concern for me since I know that this aspect can be set to however you like.

BTW the maps do look great and a very nice job. It is the goals I have problems with.

 

[[C22]-Acolyte]

My biggest problem with DTAS is the flag. I love the idea of DTAS, but I just wish the objective would be something more substantial than just a capture the flag scenario. Well... Capture the CD is not all that good either

 

[Logan6]

Well, at least its better than the Quake mods where you spawn 30 feet away from the enemy! One of the reasons they had to get rid of the grenade launcher and lower the sky

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Actually the concept behind DTAS is that you are not capturing the flag. You are securing the area and the flag just marks where that location is.

 

[spm1138]

EAS could do with more randomised maps (like Mostar).

 

[Beppo]

What is so wrong with a mission setup that never changes? It is based on HOW the players perform then fully. No advantage or disadvantage due to random elements. Pure tactics decide who will win. And due to the fact that each human being thinks differently you see many many many versions of accomplishing the same mission.
Sure some tactics are 'better' than others but still you can find a lot of different ways even after months and months of playing the same maps.
Random elements are cool, sure, but they are not the key factor. Random spawning has pros and cons too. One pro is obviously the fact that you do not know for sure where the enemy spawns and is comming from but this is a con too cause one team can get an advantage this way easily.

The reason I only put in two example setups for my INF_Captive mutator* is based on the fact that you cannot place random elements in every map easily.
A randomizer mutator or something alike can easily be made and everyone would be able to setup objectives, playerstarts aso per map. BUT, you need some good testing to setup a bunch of 'working' scenarios.

DTAS is cool, but only works on pure TDM or CTF maps that are designed to be weighted in itself already. Most maps designed for a mission based gameplay that tell some sort of story like the EAS maps do are not so easy to randomize.

*Description: This mutator allows to setup new spawnlocations per map for the Specialist player to seperate him from his team on startup. The included example settings change the setup for the maps Island and ArabOutpost with the Specialist spawning away from his team.

 

[{GD}Odie3]

? this is a new mutator ?

Beppo, is there a way to come up with a mutator that you can setup different Reinforcements settings for each map? Perhaps built into the gameswitcher mutator (if even possiable)? The biggest issue it seems that I see with me setting up {GD} is the mix of the maps (small and large). What works [as in reinforcements] on a small map does not for a large map.

 

[mat69]

Some previous posters pointed it out pretty well. I've the same problem with EAS.
I know everything depends on the players, but the gameplay of EAS is easier to destroy than TDM or DTAS and that's the main problem I see.
Sometimes it is thrilling like hell defending the villa on Tuscany reporting every contact to the other teammembers who are defending the guns. Setting up clays to mine the entries but one ... But most times it is not that way, people keep running to the objectives ... it is like TDM only that it is not funny.
If you have DTAS it is not that easy to run straight to the enemy. You do not know if he reached a special position while you know this on most EAS maps due practice.
It's a waste that EAS and Specialist aren't played that much but at least I have to "work" much more to have fun with those gametypes.
It's a good idea to make Specialst more interesting because I personally like the concept of Specialst more than the normal EAS.

Edit: The mutator is around 4-5 months old.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Actually there is nothing wrong with the idea of EAS. Mostar for me proves that.

Complete randomness doesn't work that great as you pointed out. I would prefer somewhere in the middle. I have stated before concerning DTAS that I would like a system where there is an ini file to place a series of possible locations for the flag to choose from to avoid some of the weird spawns.

Also I am not going to ignore specialist and EAS and look forward to what happens with it and the maps.

 

[Beppo]

Actually there is nothing wrong with the idea of EAS. Mostar for me proves that.

Complete randomness doesn't work that great as you pointed out. I would prefer somewhere in the middle. I have stated before concerning DTAS that I would like a system where there is an ini file to place a series of possible locations for the flag to choose from to avoid some of the weird spawns.

Also I am not going to ignore specialist and EAS and look forward to what happens with it and the maps.

As said... to code a mutator that allows the usage of multiple spawns and objective locations that can be setup within an ini file is not that much of a problem. Problem is to find multiple locations that would work AND that would match the maps scenario. Many EAS maps have a defined setup due to the way they were build and so setting up multiple 'ways' is not that easy if not even impossible. Maps like ArabOutpost, Frozen, Silo, Tuscany aso have defined missions that you cannot change that easily. Sure some may work as DTAS maps but even for DTAS you need maps that are 100% open in its setup. A large village with tons of alleys will work, but other maps are not so easy to change.
BorderTown for example can have several spots where the laptop can be placed. Tuscany would work as pure Capture the CD map maybe too with the laptop in several locations. Most of the larger TbT maps would work that way too I guess.
Biggest problem would be that you can setup objectives and spawnlocations but spawnprotection by the sniper actors would need very proper placing or would need to be removed leaving the spawns unprotected. So once you noticed where the enemy is comming from it will be pretty easy to spawnkill.
But if some folks want to make new setups for some maps then you are welcome, but keep in mind that finding the good spots that do work is not that easy and needs some time and testing.

 

[mat69]

In fact they need some testing, but imagine a map like Nomad there I would know at least 4 positions where to place the CD (you could flip the spawn points ...) also DS-Baghdad would offer different locations.
The good thing is that you could change them pretty easy, the first times you won't know if those points work because they are new for everyone. You would have to play the map at least 4 times to know if the points are working (considering that they were placed an intelligent way). And those 4 times would make fun for sure.

 

[MP_Lord_Kee]

As I stated in some other thread earlier today, I played online yesterday first time in ages. And it was FUN. The lame stuff I experienced earlier (spawn nading, nagging rushing etc) was nowhere to be seen. This was on an EAS server. Tried some TDM and well, not my cup of tea. Hope to see a populated DTAS server soon so I can give it a try, should be fun

//Kee

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Yes Beppo. I agree with everything you say. It is not easy to do right. Although I love DTAS back in 2.86 days and now, I also understand the problems with such a system. DTAS and EAS conceptually is very similar. Both are based on achieving an objective.

Also the time and effort required to do as suggested is much to ask for, probably to much, and coming from someone who has contributed next to nothing to the community let alone produced not a single map that could even be called beta I do find it difficult so sit here and criticize other peoples hard work. I don’t take this lightly for that reason.

EAS, Specialist and DTAS is sound and work. I guess why I bring all this up now concerns refinements for the next version. I like what I see now despite my criticisms but I can also see the possibilities. When you run out of possibilties you should quite and for Infiltration I see no end to possibilities.

 

[NTKB]

What is needed is more dynamic maps. Its that simple. Many of the maps that have static spawns need more game area, and less linear play. If that is provided I dont see a problem with a maps fun factor. For instance, Riun. It has the same spawns, same objective, but since there are so many routes and ways, its always fun. Map makers need to take this into consideration for the future.

Gentleman, let us make one conclusion out of all this debate, and that is that EAS is now in its baby steps. We are learning NOW what works and what does not. Dont simply leave cause you dont like whats going on, help mold EAS into something better! We as map makers are doing this now. For instance, Fatmarrows new EAS maps are fun! Why? Same reason as ruin. Me and my brother are currently working on a awsome map, that will also take advantage of random spawns ala mostar. So sit tight, let us learn the earlier EAS mistakes and make better maps. Just hang in there people. Your loyalty and constructive input is whats needed now, not INF bashing.

 

[{GD}Odie3]

What is needed is more dynamic maps. Its that simple. Many of the maps that have static spawns need more game area, and less linear play. If that is provided I dont see a problem with a maps fun factor. For instance, Riun. It has the same spawns, same objective, but since there are so many routes and ways, its always fun. Map makers need to take this into consideration for the future.

Gentleman, let us make one conclusion out of all this debate, and that is that EAS is now in its baby steps. We are learning NOW what works and what does not. Dont simply leave cause you dont like whats going on, help mold EAS into something better! We as map makers are doing this now. For instance, Fatmarrows new EAS maps are fun! Why? Same reason as ruin. Me and my brother are currently working on a awsome map, that will also take advantage of random spawns ala mostar. So sit tight, let us learn the earlier EAS mistakes and make better maps. Just hang in there people. Your loyalty and constructive input is whats needed now, not INF bashing.

Okay who are you and what did you do with NT?

 

[NTKB]

Okay who are you and what did you do with NT?

Odie you fail to realize there is a cold calculating genius behind my persona I choose to portray

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Stop it NT. I agree with you and its scaring me.

 

[mat69]

But the mutator idea Beppo is talking about should still be realized imo. If someone would explain it good how to set things up I would not see a problem to apply it on many maps. I could do this as well, but first I should pass my exams (it's my last year ).

 

[Beppo]

To write a mutator that deletes and adds certain objects is no problem at all. Only thing you need is the proper 'names' and or locations for the stuff to be deleted and proper locations for the stuff to be spawned. Writing the mutator is maybe only 10-20% of the work. I can write it if noone else want to or can.

Btw, I had a blast playing over 5 hours straigth today... pure EAS 'of course'. And this really was fun even with most knowing the maps pretty good. Weed's, nforcers, a JgdKdo some regulars and some new faces played together. And we had some really good games going.