how can yo consider wall-dodging a bug if it has its own freakin animations for it. Oh right, surely those were a bug too 
Dodge / boost / walltricks ?
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Radeon285 said:how can yo consider wall-dodging a bug if it has its own freakin animations for it. Oh right, surely those were a bug too
well said
, after all, it is part of the game, deeply engraved, but bugs are also bein talked about here... http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=144829 ...just read the last reply i made, post 15, now those are sometimes really big gus.
hey look i posted here. i didn't post in this thread yet, cuz i can't wall jump or any of that fancy stuff. so here is my input.
i like cheese.
i like cheese.
taka, just because you or possibly noobish or not well versed xmp players you know dont use certain XMP features, doesn't mean they aren't used in higher profile clan matches. Almost every time i watch xmptv i see a new use for walljump, or move in xmp.
detective, make up your mind. First you say it's not a problem because you are "too lazy to use it". Then you say it's used all the time in "higher profile clan matches". So what are you saying exactly? Is it used so everyone should use it? Or is it not used so everyone should forget it exists? I see both of these contradicting arguments thrown around, but you're the only one who used *both* :O
In any case, my point is that it is a bug that is exploited occasionally. I do not know if there's a walldodging contest amount clans. As far as I'm concerned it isn't part of the game's design, it has a negative effect to the game, and it should be fixed.
Radeon285, the walldodge is a dodge, and has the same animation as the dodge. You might be confused because the walldodge can have a trajectory that isn't possible in a normal dodge.
In any case, my point is that it is a bug that is exploited occasionally. I do not know if there's a walldodging contest amount clans. As far as I'm concerned it isn't part of the game's design, it has a negative effect to the game, and it should be fixed.
Radeon285, the walldodge is a dodge, and has the same animation as the dodge. You might be confused because the walldodge can have a trajectory that isn't possible in a normal dodge.
Naib said:
Or how is it not part of the games design?
It was in the demo and its been in every version of the game. You might be able to pass off that somehow every member of LE magically "missed" it, but closer examination proves that to be wrong. The boost off a wall dodge takes a huge chunk of energy, much more than a normal boost. This means that it was specifically coded that way, hence not only did the programmers know about it, they added a circumstance (the extra energy usage) exclusively for the wall boost. Since you cant wall boost without a wall dodge, they obviously knew about it.
I'll agree that most mappers probably don't account for trick jumps such as this when making maps, but I think some mappers do.
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You didn't beta test takwu did you? how can you possibly be the judge whether something is an exploit or not, i use walljump often am i an exploiter? infact most pets use walljump is pet clan an exploiting clan based on our use of walljump?
But in response to your question, No i don't think it has a negative effect on the game but when you say it ruins game you say it as if its something that is out of control, when very few players do use it. I'm also saying that some of the more intelligent players use it more than pub/novice players. It should not be forgotten but if you don't want to take the time to learn how to do it effectively, or are too lazy its that players own fault and if they want to learn they can ask someone else. Its not that the "walljumpers" are a special group, they are possibly just people who cared enough to learn it and use it. I personally think your a crybaby afraid to think outside of the box in terms of gameplay.
Fleury i agree with you, i've seen LE's (when i started days of demo, and full version) use walljumps too, i think that even if IT WAS an exploit, or something they didnt intentionally put there they didn't think that it negatively affected the game, or else they wouldn't use it and probably would have made it not work within the game.
But in response to your question, No i don't think it has a negative effect on the game but when you say it ruins game you say it as if its something that is out of control, when very few players do use it. I'm also saying that some of the more intelligent players use it more than pub/novice players. It should not be forgotten but if you don't want to take the time to learn how to do it effectively, or are too lazy its that players own fault and if they want to learn they can ask someone else. Its not that the "walljumpers" are a special group, they are possibly just people who cared enough to learn it and use it. I personally think your a crybaby afraid to think outside of the box in terms of gameplay.
Fleury i agree with you, i've seen LE's (when i started days of demo, and full version) use walljumps too, i think that even if IT WAS an exploit, or something they didnt intentionally put there they didn't think that it negatively affected the game, or else they wouldn't use it and probably would have made it not work within the game.
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takwu said:
i'm too lazy to write long letters, i like to give my opinion fast and in general, sry if you felt attacked, wasn't my intention.
and yes i do feel it should be the same in utxmp, if an arty gets away from def by a walldodging ranger it's midfields job to get it back.
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Just to go back to an earlier post:
As far as I know, wall jumping was added in UT2003, and is still in UT2004. If it is a known bug, why did they keep it in? Dodging was in UT, but not wall dodging, so I presume they must have added the code to allow it.takwu said:
You think that because some people don't know how to wall jump, it is unfair? That is IMO as silly argument. Lots of new players don't know there is a sprint button, but that is no reason to remove it.takwu said:
You can wall jump from most walls in the game, the trick is learing places where it is usefull. To me that is one of the things that adds depth to the game, as anything that takes skill but keeps the game balance is good. If a map designer does not consider all the player's abilities when making the map, that's his problem, not the playerstakwu said:
Conc jumping is only avalible to gunners, and if done right can take you over long distances with very little damage and very little energy useage. Wall jumping can be done by all classes, and uses up 80% of your energy. I would say that any imbalance is the other way round.takwu said:
uhh... takwu, i need to speak with you... it is about wall jumping and dodging... it is simple, if there is animations specifically built into the player models, it is not a exploit, unless the mod/programmers remove it and people still use it... and u2xmp has it and it is not removed in the code.
Hey tak, I'm going to try to type out a little history about "wall dodging" from 2k3 and another similar, yet drastically different move called a "boost dodge," also from 2k3. These history lessons may be hard to understand if you didn't play 2k3, and they will be even harder to understand if you don't have a good grasp on wall dodging at this point. But I will try anyway.
The first move, a wall dodge, was intenionally built into the game by Epic. The second move, a boost dodge was not intentionally built into the game, but rather was "figured out" by the players who bought the game (who also happened to be doing extensive beta testing for 2k4 as it turned out). The only difference between Epic's beta test and Legend's beta test for XMP was the fact that Epic charged it's fans $50 to beta test that piece of crap.
Ok I'm already going off on a tagent. Lemme try to get back on track. Basically, the only reason you thought a wall dodge was a "bug" from 2k3/4 is because "Saito told you it was." Wall dodging is not a bug. A wall dodge is not a bug, nor was it ever one. It was intentionally built into 2k3 and everyone and their grandmother knew it was a new feature to the unreal series, at that time.
I remember the thread on the u2xmp forum here at BU from months ago about trick jumps. Saito popped in and basically spewed out a bunch of misinformation as a "135 Instabgib CTFer" who really didn't know very much about the unreal series to begin with, but certainly tried to talk like he knew everything about everything.
He was quickly corrected, and subsequently banned from the forum for other acts of stupidity.
Basically, "boost dodging" is the bug in 2k3 and it was removed in 2k4. Boost dodging is an entirely different beast. It was done when a player would slap a jump in the middle of a dodge sequence (tap,jump,tap), while in a certain viscinity of a vertical wall. It was not easy to pull off, but for those that could... the move would open new doors of playability.
As it turned out, boost dodging created a variety of problems for 2k3 players who didn't have the finger speed to pull off the move. If you boost dodged off a wall in 2k3, you could get higher in the air than with any other kind of move (with the exception of a shield jump, but that required you to hurt yourself in the process), thus some of the strategies for certain maps were changed drastically. New routes were formed, new evasion techniques, etc. Every single map that was released for 2k3 was NOT built with the intention of boost dodging, since Epic failed to find it in their own beta tests (whatever the hell those were).
Consequently, the move was kept a secret for quite awhile. Some teams would use it to their advantage as much as possible, while others never even knew about it. It was an exploited bug at this point. When the rest of the competitive scene in 2k3 finally caught on, I guess everyone just sort of said "that's cool!" all at the same time. "I never knew you could do that! I've been playing this game for all this time, and I never knew!!" I guess Epic decided to keep it in the game at this point, since there was overwhelming support for the move. But deep down inside, they knew that they screwed up by not testing the game and probably couldn't figure out a way to remove it anyway.
In conclusion, wall dodging was built into XMP intentionally. There is no if's and's or but's about it. I'm not 100% sure if boost dodging is also in the game, since I never really tried it to be honest. A wall dodge would get me twice as far, twice as fast anyway. If boost dodging IS still in the game, I honestly can't see a use for it anyway.
The first move, a wall dodge, was intenionally built into the game by Epic. The second move, a boost dodge was not intentionally built into the game, but rather was "figured out" by the players who bought the game (who also happened to be doing extensive beta testing for 2k4 as it turned out). The only difference between Epic's beta test and Legend's beta test for XMP was the fact that Epic charged it's fans $50 to beta test that piece of crap.
Ok I'm already going off on a tagent. Lemme try to get back on track. Basically, the only reason you thought a wall dodge was a "bug" from 2k3/4 is because "Saito told you it was." Wall dodging is not a bug. A wall dodge is not a bug, nor was it ever one. It was intentionally built into 2k3 and everyone and their grandmother knew it was a new feature to the unreal series, at that time.
I remember the thread on the u2xmp forum here at BU from months ago about trick jumps. Saito popped in and basically spewed out a bunch of misinformation as a "135 Instabgib CTFer" who really didn't know very much about the unreal series to begin with, but certainly tried to talk like he knew everything about everything.
He was quickly corrected, and subsequently banned from the forum for other acts of stupidity.
Basically, "boost dodging" is the bug in 2k3 and it was removed in 2k4. Boost dodging is an entirely different beast. It was done when a player would slap a jump in the middle of a dodge sequence (tap,jump,tap), while in a certain viscinity of a vertical wall. It was not easy to pull off, but for those that could... the move would open new doors of playability.
As it turned out, boost dodging created a variety of problems for 2k3 players who didn't have the finger speed to pull off the move. If you boost dodged off a wall in 2k3, you could get higher in the air than with any other kind of move (with the exception of a shield jump, but that required you to hurt yourself in the process), thus some of the strategies for certain maps were changed drastically. New routes were formed, new evasion techniques, etc. Every single map that was released for 2k3 was NOT built with the intention of boost dodging, since Epic failed to find it in their own beta tests (whatever the hell those were).
Consequently, the move was kept a secret for quite awhile. Some teams would use it to their advantage as much as possible, while others never even knew about it. It was an exploited bug at this point. When the rest of the competitive scene in 2k3 finally caught on, I guess everyone just sort of said "that's cool!" all at the same time. "I never knew you could do that! I've been playing this game for all this time, and I never knew!!" I guess Epic decided to keep it in the game at this point, since there was overwhelming support for the move. But deep down inside, they knew that they screwed up by not testing the game and probably couldn't figure out a way to remove it anyway.
In conclusion, wall dodging was built into XMP intentionally. There is no if's and's or but's about it. I'm not 100% sure if boost dodging is also in the game, since I never really tried it to be honest. A wall dodge would get me twice as far, twice as fast anyway. If boost dodging IS still in the game, I honestly can't see a use for it anyway.
Argh this is why I prefer playing UT2k3 DM over UT3k4, because in 3 you can do far more dodging and acrobatic moves, while in 4 you are very limited which makes it easier for a n00bish player to n00b a better player. Wall jumps were my favorite move as well were boost dodges.
Yeah man, but it wasn't supposed to ever be in the game in the first place. That's the whole problem. I agree they were fun to do, and definitely had their uses... but simply put, boost dodging never, ever should have existed.
XMP doesn't have any problems with mobility as it stands right now, and boost dodging isn't even an issue with that game.
XMP doesn't have any problems with mobility as it stands right now, and boost dodging isn't even an issue with that game.
chipmunk said:
Well in XMP you don't have to put that jump in the middle of the wall dodge, you can actually do it well after the dodge.
BTW, you know theres this clan, nbk, that wouldn't mind seeing a certain someone, you know, you, while you're doing all this posting.
takwu said:
right.
And your point is? No kiddin it has a trajectory thats not possible with normal dodging. Im nowhere new this game man, i'v been player it since the demo came out. The thing is you have to find a wall first in order to do it. And doing that is sure to make you a candidate for some nice spash damage courtesy of the nearest Gunners rocket launcher.
Also, the fact that it has an animation for the move goes to prove that it was intentional. Even if it was a re-used dodge animation. ****, even UT2004 re-uses the dodge animation for the wall-dodge. Just live with it. Its a part of the game. Stop trying to dumb it down just cause you cant catch up to faster players.
fireball
Reach out and torch someone
I always love these kinds of discussions. There's the "omfg noes getting owned by 1337 playerz dodging off air while headshotting with a nuke through a wall" side, vs the "omfg i know a trick so that means we must keep it so i can pwn more" side.
You'll never make everybody happy. I tend to reside more in the first group, but I don't care about walldodging. It's skill, not a bug.
You'll never make everybody happy. I tend to reside more in the first group, but I don't care about walldodging. It's skill, not a bug.
Boost dodging is in U2XMP... but I never found it any more useful than creative jumpjetting. Yeah, there are walls to dodge against, but they're usually not facing in the direction you want to go. I'm a bit of a retard with trick jumps though.
i agree, with captain here, wall dodging is actually wall jumping... same concept, except for you use a wall as your movement location to change where your moving.