Colt M1911A1
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Are the AK107 and 108 variants widely used Duke?
I'd rather have an AKM with optional Kobra sight and GP25 grenade launcher
Anyway, I'll say it again: get rid of the DE, P99 and FiveSeven (I don't believe that the FiveSeven is widely used), and add in the new Russian army Grach handgun instead.
Some may ask for a .40 S&W pistol, but I firmly believe that after 2.9, the Inf team has to make a choice: either keep all the civilian weapons in and call itself a police counter-terrorist Vs terrorist sim, or clean up the armoury and add in milspec (or in the Grach's case, being adopted as we speak milspec) weapons and call itself a regular military hybrid SF simulator.
I'd rather have an AKM with optional Kobra sight and GP25 grenade launcher
Anyway, I'll say it again: get rid of the DE, P99 and FiveSeven (I don't believe that the FiveSeven is widely used), and add in the new Russian army Grach handgun instead.
Some may ask for a .40 S&W pistol, but I firmly believe that after 2.9, the Inf team has to make a choice: either keep all the civilian weapons in and call itself a police counter-terrorist Vs terrorist sim, or clean up the armoury and add in milspec (or in the Grach's case, being adopted as we speak milspec) weapons and call itself a regular military hybrid SF simulator.
OICW said:Are the AK107 and 108 variants widely used Duke?
I'd rather have an AKM with optional Kobra sight and GP25 grenade launcher
Honestly, I have no idea how widely the AK-107/108 are used. I do know they're the latest development of the Kalishnikov series... So someone's gotta be using them somewhere...
I like your suggestion, too. But if we're gonna dream, dream big, right? Let's push for the AN-94 Abakan and maybe even the OC-14 "Groza" or AS "Val" - both utilizing the SP-6 9x39mm subsonic silent rounds...
Get all Spetznaz on some asses...
I tend to agree with this. I like the idea of Infiltration being a Spec Ops sim.
Matthew
Okay, it seems I was wrong. I emailed a captain of a Force Recon division and he says, quote
"I have shot the MK 23 SOCOM pistol I find it hard to believe that it weighs less than the MEUSOC! It is much larger though."
I'd like to weigh the SOCOM with all it's attachments and a full magazine of ammunition and then see how much "lighter" it is than the SOCOM.
"I have shot the MK 23 SOCOM pistol I find it hard to believe that it weighs less than the MEUSOC! It is much larger though."
I'd like to weigh the SOCOM with all it's attachments and a full magazine of ammunition and then see how much "lighter" it is than the SOCOM.
Ok. Let me put it this way. I own a Socom. It's a big gun, but I find it easier to handle than a 1911, which I just find fiddly and annoying.
The 1911A1 or any varient thereof is old, and obsolete. Even a USP .45 (Which I hate, mind you) is a better alternative. Just because something served in WW2 doesn't mean we should all be burdened with it's crappiness. If you want an old-school handgun, ask for one that is still actually a practical option, like a TT-33 Tokarev or a Browning HP. Like OICW said, lose the P99, DE and FiveseveN. Replace the FiveseveN with the TT-33, since they both fire real asshole rounds, and put a Browning HP in.
I say again, just in case certain ignorant assholes missed it: The 1911 and all variations of said model are obsolete by modern standards and have no place on a battle field where better options (I.E SOCOM/USP .45/Glock's .45 range) are present.
Final summation: Fuck you, get over it.
The 1911A1 or any varient thereof is old, and obsolete. Even a USP .45 (Which I hate, mind you) is a better alternative. Just because something served in WW2 doesn't mean we should all be burdened with it's crappiness. If you want an old-school handgun, ask for one that is still actually a practical option, like a TT-33 Tokarev or a Browning HP. Like OICW said, lose the P99, DE and FiveseveN. Replace the FiveseveN with the TT-33, since they both fire real asshole rounds, and put a Browning HP in.
I say again, just in case certain ignorant assholes missed it: The 1911 and all variations of said model are obsolete by modern standards and have no place on a battle field where better options (I.E SOCOM/USP .45/Glock's .45 range) are present.
Final summation: Fuck you, get over it.
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An opinion of one person, nothing more, nothing less.
I think the Los Angeles Police Department, as well as countless other organizations such as the FBI and SWAT would disagree with you on that one.
I've stated many times that the original WW2 M1911A1 is obsolete... however, modernized variants are in widespread use.
The difference is that those guns are not U.S. military specification, therefore are irrelevant.
I think it was already established that guns already in the armory aren't going to just be "thrown out" .. time and effort went into the design and modeling of them ya know.
Like I said, some organizations would tend to disagree with you on that one.
There's no need for personal insults, Jaunty, let's try and keep it clean shall we?
Beretta M9 replaced Colt 1911 as standard handgun is US army in 1988(original plans for this go back to 1958, in 1978 they started testing handguns, ten years later they came to an conclusion.....real speedy guys!)
i dont know if it's still used by any other army's but it seems unlikly...
since inf is a militry simulator it shoudnt be in it....
although i do like colt 1911.....
i dont know if it's still used by any other army's but it seems unlikly...
since inf is a militry simulator it shoudnt be in it....
although i do like colt 1911.....
oh, and yes, colt 1911 is old....but far from obselete as domino already said, colt started producing them in 1991 again(wich is named colt 1991) without to much diffrences...
the basic principle of handguns hasnt changed to much since 1911, sure, there are better guns, but i can still kill alot of ppl with a 1911.....
the basic principle of handguns hasnt changed to much since 1911, sure, there are better guns, but i can still kill alot of ppl with a 1911.....
"The United States Marine Corps has unofficially never been comfortable with the M9 pistol. Congressional mandates have allegedly proscribed Marines from bad mouthing this pistol, but the Marine Corps is continuing to look for a "unique sea service pistol" in .45 ACP. And, as the Marine Corps is not obligated to buy what the Army buys, this may well occur."
On the contrary, the MEU(SOC) 1911 is an official military sidearm which is currently in use by Force Recon. This pistol is also seeing action in Iraq.
Delta Force has been known to use a modified 1911 design and in almost every Law Enforcement organization, including SWAT, you are going to see modified 1911s.
i dont know if it's still used by any other army's but it seems unlikly...
since inf is a militry simulator it shoudnt be in it....
although i do like colt 1911.....
Tell me where in Inf's description it is a "law enforcement" sim? The reason why I wanted so many non-milspec weapons out of Inf is because they don't belong with Inf's tag of a "military simulator".
According to your logic we shouldn't have anything that the US doesn't use
In a military sense, only Force Recon use a modernised Colt to the best of my knowledge. And the fact that it's slightly heavier and slightly shorter than the SOCOM is no grounds for putting it in unless you want a 8 shot SOCOM with no attachments for some reason.
Lets see, there won't be a Colt in 2.9, 2.9 will apparently be the last version of Inf for UT...the weapon models are perfect as they are, and are designed with UT2003's model limits and capabilites in mind...oh wait, they aren't. Every weapon for a Inf UT2003 would have to be redone AFAIK...to fix any glaring errors with the greater detail you can have, or to simply make them look more detailed.
Force Recon and that's it...of course, if you want Inf to be a cop CS like simulator, good luck.
INF is not a law enforcement sim, but Special Forces often times use Law Enforcement weapons.
Simple fact, the major countries decide what guns are used in the majority... I can't help it if the U.S. has a great influence. Just because a modernized 1911 is probably more reliable than an Russian makarov doesn't mean I'm some decadent western supremisist. Realism is what it is.
The MEU(SOC) is used in conjuction with the SureFire flashlight attachment system. And how many times do I have to go over this?? The MEU(SOC) is a sidearm designed for CQB situations, the SOCOM is not.
I strongly doubt they would just throw all that work away and start from scratch... they would at least try to import the models first. And why do you care?? Heaven forbid the armory get..*gasp* TOO big! Heaven forbid we'd ever have too many choices as far as weapons go!
Who said anything about wanting cop simulator? I just want realism, and you can deny that the 1911 and it's variants are still being used all you want, it doesn't change the fact they're being used. Realism is not subjective.
Domino said:
1) An opinion shared by many.
2) Since when were they military? Infiltration is a military sim, not a police sim. To quote you again; "Irrelevant"
3) Modernized varients are still the same basic gun. A pretty new finish, new set of sights and flashlight stuck on the end don't change the fact that you essentialy have an 8 round .45ACP pistol.
4) Since when do weapons have to be US milspec to go into infiltration? Is the Robar US Milspec? Is the FAMAS US Milspec? Retard.
5) If it means that much, I'll put MY time and effort into replacing them with decent weapons.
6) Those organisations have noting to do with anything related to Infiltration. Try again, sweetie.
7) Fuck you, shitmittens.
-=SDS=-Coop
INF Online moderator
yea, i admit, my favorite inf pistol isnt quite as mainstream as inf makes it out to be. the FiveseveN should be dropped. however, the reason i see it staying is that it uses the same ammo as the P90, which in the battle field would be convienient, and just makes sense. The other non milspec weapons in inf's armory, I feel, are there for anybody who wants to experiment with them, and if anybody feels like playing "the bad guy". Inf team should re-think their armory, in such a way, that for every milspec gun in there, there should be a terrorist/3rd world country/not so common equivalent, which if you wanted to be stereotypical, can indeed call "a badguy gun". in addition to considering 2 or more weapons of each kind, there should be at least two weapons for every ammo type (size not specific type, tracer, incendary, ball, etc i mean 9mm 7.62mm .45acp) which would ballance the game in such a way that the generic "i do damage" bullet isnt flying around, and actual ballistics can be implimented. ballistics to the point of the bullet reaching zero feet per second and modeling damage properly.
The P99 must go... who has heard of the P99... most of you, good... where di you hear about the P99... yup, Die Another Day (or the one before it, lol), that james bond movie... thats what i thought. A single fictional secret service agent uses it... c'mon... no, just no.
The colt 1911 or many of its variants, have been replaced by the Beretta m9, there is no avoiding it, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
if anything, i feel the inf team should spend the time after the release of 2.9 in preparation for 3.0, completing more than 3 weapons in the 3 or 4 plus year wait for that version. perhaps completing most, if not all of the weapons. maybe opening your doors to more weapon suggestions, open your doors to the public... im sure there are people here that know 3dsmax and are willing to try their hand. have them make and animate a weapon and submit it. if you think its ****, tell them, if you like it, then accept it as a token of gratitude for your making a pimpin mod, impliment and skin the weapon, and bingo, you've got yourself another weapon in the game that you either didint want to put effort into, or were looking for but never really thought of.
and for god sakes, please make the desert eagle black. if you're gonna impliment a silver pistol, make a beretta m9 in silver, i've seen them, and all you have to do is make a second skin for the same weapon. you've already coded and implimented it, just re-skin it. though, i personally would push for an USP in maybe .45, with a silver slide. im not a fan of silver, i just want a USP in the game (shadup, a socom is not a usp, its a big bulky usp variant).
i know the inf team is looking to keep this all millspec (or close to it and what not) but i remember inf wanting to stand out from other mods... so far your only standing out is using the irons to aim, and a desert eagle chambered for .357 (i think, right? i know its not a 44 or a 50) add a few more AK Variants, including an ak-74 and an RPK. god knows you have H&K's entire lineup (though i wouldnt mind an SD5/SD6)
not tryin to order anybody around, but im just gettin tired of the same suggestions coming up that keep getting shot down.
The P99 must go... who has heard of the P99... most of you, good... where di you hear about the P99... yup, Die Another Day (or the one before it, lol), that james bond movie... thats what i thought. A single fictional secret service agent uses it... c'mon... no, just no.
The colt 1911 or many of its variants, have been replaced by the Beretta m9, there is no avoiding it, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
if anything, i feel the inf team should spend the time after the release of 2.9 in preparation for 3.0, completing more than 3 weapons in the 3 or 4 plus year wait for that version. perhaps completing most, if not all of the weapons. maybe opening your doors to more weapon suggestions, open your doors to the public... im sure there are people here that know 3dsmax and are willing to try their hand. have them make and animate a weapon and submit it. if you think its ****, tell them, if you like it, then accept it as a token of gratitude for your making a pimpin mod, impliment and skin the weapon, and bingo, you've got yourself another weapon in the game that you either didint want to put effort into, or were looking for but never really thought of.
and for god sakes, please make the desert eagle black. if you're gonna impliment a silver pistol, make a beretta m9 in silver, i've seen them, and all you have to do is make a second skin for the same weapon. you've already coded and implimented it, just re-skin it. though, i personally would push for an USP in maybe .45, with a silver slide. im not a fan of silver, i just want a USP in the game (shadup, a socom is not a usp, its a big bulky usp variant).
i know the inf team is looking to keep this all millspec (or close to it and what not) but i remember inf wanting to stand out from other mods... so far your only standing out is using the irons to aim, and a desert eagle chambered for .357 (i think, right? i know its not a 44 or a 50) add a few more AK Variants, including an ak-74 and an RPK. god knows you have H&K's entire lineup (though i wouldnt mind an SD5/SD6)
not tryin to order anybody around, but im just gettin tired of the same suggestions coming up that keep getting shot down.
What's wrong with an 8 round, .45ACP pistol? The SIG220 is an extremely reliable, comfortable and accurate weapon. Although I haven't shot it, in handling it, the Mk23 seems far too bulky to make me want to carry one.
The 1911 is a fine pistol which I wouldn't mind owning. Personally I prefer the SIG, simply because I like the DA/SA as opposed to the SA design, as well as a few other minor things. But that's just me.
The fact of the matter is that the entire Armory will be redone for the next version, and already the list has essentially been decided.
And please try to keep it civil. Lacing pointless insults into a discussion not only make one appear hopelessly childish, but also have no benefit to the community some here claim to be defending at all costs.
The 1911 is a fine pistol which I wouldn't mind owning. Personally I prefer the SIG, simply because I like the DA/SA as opposed to the SA design, as well as a few other minor things. But that's just me.
The fact of the matter is that the entire Armory will be redone for the next version, and already the list has essentially been decided.
And please try to keep it civil. Lacing pointless insults into a discussion not only make one appear hopelessly childish, but also have no benefit to the community some here claim to be defending at all costs.
Can anyone tell me where the notiion that INF is a pure military sim came from? The feeling I get is mostly military, but I also feel there is a touch of para-military, soldier-for-hire feel to it. The ability to choose any weapon regardless of country of origin, etc... And given that climate, why not let some of the "non-milspec" and/or "non current mil-spec" weapons stay in?
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to just keep all the weapons that are currently in INF in. And why not add the M1911? Who would it really hurt? Don't like it? Don't use it. But if someone really gets a hard-on from using it, what's the harm? There are indeed some current military forces that use it, some SWAT/police forces use it, and certainly many mercenaries use it.
To me INF - especially the new EAS gameplay that has teams vieing to steal or protect a CD/Database - feels more like a mercenary mission than a military mission. And in that vein, just about anything goes, no?
So really, just about the only limiting factor to adding/keeping a weapon in INF should be up to the discretion of Sentry Studios.
Personally, I'd love to see the M4 (especially if I can get an aimpoint for it), G36, M14/G3/FN FAL (at least one of the three), AN-94, OC-14, LA85A2, and maybe even UMP-45 added. But really, my opinion doesn't mean much - and I'm willing to admit this.
Matthew
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to just keep all the weapons that are currently in INF in. And why not add the M1911? Who would it really hurt? Don't like it? Don't use it. But if someone really gets a hard-on from using it, what's the harm? There are indeed some current military forces that use it, some SWAT/police forces use it, and certainly many mercenaries use it.
To me INF - especially the new EAS gameplay that has teams vieing to steal or protect a CD/Database - feels more like a mercenary mission than a military mission. And in that vein, just about anything goes, no?
So really, just about the only limiting factor to adding/keeping a weapon in INF should be up to the discretion of Sentry Studios.
Personally, I'd love to see the M4 (especially if I can get an aimpoint for it), G36, M14/G3/FN FAL (at least one of the three), AN-94, OC-14, LA85A2, and maybe even UMP-45 added. But really, my opinion doesn't mean much - and I'm willing to admit this.
Matthew
Every gun has it's own quirks and feel. I'd be happy to see the 1911 in game.
They are especially fun to shoot =).
They are especially fun to shoot =).
Big_Duke_06 said:
Yep - I'll agree with that. However, I don't really think that Sentry Studios needs to be spending the time modelling, animating, skinning and coding new weapons that have a seemingly identical function to weapons already in the game, when instead time could be spent on new features such as a more realistic damage system or an improved method for controlling grenade throws.
When it comes down to it, if there's a choice between some pistol that seems to be damn similar to the other pistols already in the game - and let's face it - not even a primary weapon that people are likely to be using all that much, or some other weapon that would actually be more than a little different, I'll take the different weapon. Like the G11 or something.
Hell, I'd even prefer some stupid medieval crossbow mutator for inf than a copy of a pistol that we shall seemingly already have (in gameplay terms anyway).
Don't take my 5-7 away from me!
And, yes, a browning HP would be a nice DE replacer...
and look at SaraP's signature!!
Anyway, a question: can you write a mutator to add a weapon to INF the way you add weapons to UT?
or is INF very closed source?
Now THAT would be good for INF! You want your weapon? you make your weapon!
And maybe a handy tool that allows you to just enter some parameters (bulk, recoil, sound, caliber, ballistic stuff, nams of the proper animations etc) and then that program generates the code for you, and you then just have to add to serverpackages and then you have your weapon ingame!
opensource INF. Would help the developement alot!
And, yes, a browning HP would be a nice DE replacer...
and look at SaraP's signature!!
Thats a good reason why not to use an 1911
Anyway, a question: can you write a mutator to add a weapon to INF the way you add weapons to UT?
or is INF very closed source?
Now THAT would be good for INF! You want your weapon? you make your weapon!
And maybe a handy tool that allows you to just enter some parameters (bulk, recoil, sound, caliber, ballistic stuff, nams of the proper animations etc) and then that program generates the code for you, and you then just have to add to serverpackages and then you have your weapon ingame!
opensource INF. Would help the developement alot!
I'd never frell with anyones choices in sidearm, since sidearms are mostly chosen by taste.
My comfort zone includes guns with name reckognition, like the DE . But I likewise respect anyone who wants their 5-7 or M9.
Anyhow, "Replacing" existing weapons is counterproductive. Since you have to create a new gun from the ground up either way.
On the 1911:
There are alot of .45's in the world. Know why? cause the .45acp ("automated colt pistol" if Im not mistaken) round is a solid man stopper. The 1911, on top of being one of the oldest service weapons out there, is one of the most cloned/copycatted guns.
What I think is ironic is that the 1911 came into service because of the weak .38's of the day pissing off servicemen.
I got no clue why it was replaced, maybe just whiz kids numeroligy kicking in like it did on the m16. But after living with an m9 replacement we now want the larger socom.
Oddly enough we want the unwieldy low capacity man stopper rounds back in a new frame that fits with all our toys.
I keep seeing the phrasing "offencive handgun" and read it like they said "dont sell us no 5H17 this time".
I think thats a testament to the capacity vs power argument.
Battlefield theory says we want more capacity to fight longer. Battlefield practice (at least with pistols) must be proving otherwise...
Personaly: if someone gets in my way, I want them dead NOW!. extra shots dont mean diddly if they have time to do a kbar dance on my face befor suffering from their internal wounds.
Still, why would someone buy a 1911 when theres a socom?
Americans have had the 1911 in our culture for some time. When buying any important gear you take history into consideration too.
Maybe cause the old man packed a 1911, Im more tempted to use that weapon or feel some familiarity with it. Like I know what Im getting cause I know (at least at one time) this was the thing to buy if you wanted a handgun.
besides, no one wants to be the first to test a "new" parachute
If you value your life, a new gun design is always a hard sell irl.
In the game, honestly, it dosent make much of a difference.
I dont know if you'll see a performance difference from the DE enough to justify anything. So taste alone will have to do it. Altho, being a game, that should be more than enough reason for any pistol class weapon.
Point of observation, somewhat unrealated:
I would call INF a tactical shooter, not so much special forces only or military sim only. Theres a few guns the police will never have, and a few the military would (should) not use in combat.
I would just enjoy it as an exceuse to shoot people with interesting weapons, and not get stuck on which paramilitary inventory its supposed to represent.
My comfort zone includes guns with name reckognition, like the DE
. But I likewise respect anyone who wants their 5-7 or M9.Anyhow, "Replacing" existing weapons is counterproductive. Since you have to create a new gun from the ground up either way.
On the 1911:
There are alot of .45's in the world. Know why? cause the .45acp ("automated colt pistol" if Im not mistaken) round is a solid man stopper. The 1911, on top of being one of the oldest service weapons out there, is one of the most cloned/copycatted guns.
What I think is ironic is that the 1911 came into service because of the weak .38's of the day pissing off servicemen.
I got no clue why it was replaced, maybe just whiz kids numeroligy kicking in like it did on the m16. But after living with an m9 replacement we now want the larger socom.
Oddly enough we want the unwieldy low capacity man stopper rounds back in a new frame that fits with all our toys.
I keep seeing the phrasing "offencive handgun" and read it like they said "dont sell us no 5H17 this time".
I think thats a testament to the capacity vs power argument.
Battlefield theory says we want more capacity to fight longer. Battlefield practice (at least with pistols) must be proving otherwise...
Personaly: if someone gets in my way, I want them dead NOW!. extra shots dont mean diddly if they have time to do a kbar dance on my face befor suffering from their internal wounds.
Still, why would someone buy a 1911 when theres a socom?
Americans have had the 1911 in our culture for some time. When buying any important gear you take history into consideration too.
Maybe cause the old man packed a 1911, Im more tempted to use that weapon or feel some familiarity with it. Like I know what Im getting cause I know (at least at one time) this was the thing to buy if you wanted a handgun.
besides, no one wants to be the first to test a "new" parachute
If you value your life, a new gun design is always a hard sell irl.
In the game, honestly, it dosent make much of a difference.
I dont know if you'll see a performance difference from the DE enough to justify anything. So taste alone will have to do it. Altho, being a game, that should be more than enough reason for any pistol class weapon.
Point of observation, somewhat unrealated:
I would call INF a tactical shooter, not so much special forces only or military sim only. Theres a few guns the police will never have, and a few the military would (should) not use in combat.
I would just enjoy it as an exceuse to shoot people with interesting weapons, and not get stuck on which paramilitary inventory its supposed to represent.
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