CliffyB Gets Hate Mail

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Juguard

The King Is Dead, Punk Rock Lives!
Nov 30, 1999
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Bang_Doll said:
I just want to say two things:


Whoever called the original Unreal "poor" by FPS standards: die now kthx.


And - God, I ****ing loved Bombing Run. Gonna ****ing miss that ****. :(
bombing run was cool, not sure why they had to take it out. A mod will be made, don't worry.
 

Mr. UglyPants

2007 never existed, it was all a dream.
Aug 22, 2005
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Canada... eh
Just like CTF4 was made by a mod team so will it be made on UT2007 along with BR and the countless other Gametypes that Epic threw out since no one played them enough!
 

Ghost3021

Registered Hobbit
Nov 21, 2004
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Behind you.
Nahand said:
... important [unnoficial] tread rules:

1. You must, impreterably, be 21 or older to speak anything even remotely related with "originality" in this tread;

2. Complimenting point 1. , you must have had a decent playbase of diferent games, in diferent game systems, during the refered time;

3. You must not reply to yourself with such supporting arguments as fanboy talk about console games;

4. True fact: UT2007 (independently of name tag) will suck - it's a dreamy/shiny version of UT2004 with some bad elements of UT thrown in and even worse graphical style;

5. This [unnoficial] tread rules bulletin was brought to you by Inuit Corp. If, by any remote chance, you do not associate the company tag with something , without using Google or so, you most definitely shouldn't be here.






... and... al your base are belong to cliché, God Of Random...

Thanks for...nvm.
Don't tell me what to do unless you are:
A mod
T3h Admin
\o/
 

UnrealGrrl

Enemy flag carrier is Her!
Jun 16, 2000
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...this guy sounds like he wouldnt know innovation if a japanese anime character hit him in the face with it... (while wearing an alien costume).

im sure thats probably one of the more tame letters cliffy has gotten over the years. the author of the email needs to get a life and stop bein a jealous hater...
 
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Mar 19, 2002
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Cliff posted some seriously funny hate-posts before, from his 1up comments (can you properly describe funny, with "serious"? I don't know) ...

This one guy went off about how gay Cliffy was... sheep and poop were involved I think.
Cliffy actually thought it was funny.

So yeah, this email is pretty tame.

I want to see some death threats!! Nothing says Unreal News like CliffyB death threats.
________
Best Box Vaporizer
 
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U

Unregistered

Guest
I can't register here at work so you will have to deal with the anonymous poster. Especially because I am joining the convo late. But I consider this one of the most important topics about game dev these days.

The guy's email, while holding some truths, was seriously unfair, as if it was one guy's fault we are stuck with such an unimaginative dev scene. I've been waiting for some new 'styles' of fps games to come out for going on 5 years now, and shamefully there has only been WW2 clone after WW2 clone, and some CS ones to boot. What makes it even more annoying is that no-one is really able to put their finger on why CS is still so popular as a gametype, there is nothing special about the gameplay, there is little to no teamwork or tactics (I played it professionally in the early beta's over here in Aus), and when compared to my favourites like Team Fortress it is no competition, when measured by Fun, Re-playability, Team work, tactics, weapon accuracy etc etc.. The only redeeming features of CS is the viceral feeling of shooting the weapons, and the quality of the graphics/models/textures for realism.

In reality though, using gamespy stats as a guide, Counter-strike is still owning all other games on the market. Still!!!! after it's humble beginings as really an AQ2 clone with hostages and small maps. My rough estimate would be some 70% of the online FPS community plays CS and CS alone. UT2k4 struggles for something like a 5% chunk.. and as I saw on the ut2007 e3 vid, claimed to be the most popular deathmatch game... which when compared to q3's stake is correct, but they are forgetting CS is essentially DM with rounds.

The big studios consistantly rely on the tried and true practise of remaking the same game with a new engine, like some kind of "Digitally Remastered" version of a movie. Constantly living in fear that if they change something too much then the game will lose it's already dwindling fanbase. To an avid gamer this is disturbing, forever damning us to be playing the same games in 20 years. Before CS was huge, there was a much more community based gaming population. In those days, from my hazy memory, people played mods alot more, experimenting with new ones and reporting back their reviews to readers. CS has evolved so far from it's original version, and in my opinion really got ruined when Gooseman bowed down to pressure from the cs.net forums about weapon recoil realism. Forever damning the game to random deaths from random bullets, increasing frustration and newb populations, while decreasing fun and skill. Back in the early beta's (2-4) the CS community was really quite small, with the people that had played the previous beta's owning all that came after. There was a huge chasm in skill level between the oldies and newbs, and this kept alot of people away because of the painful learning curve. Nowadays your bullets and your crosshair aren't friends anymore... maybe you will kill that guy, maybe you won't, but if you watch most CS fights people tend to die in the order that they join the firefight.

Now you might wonder why this random is going on about CS so much, well it's because I see the CS model as our salvation from repetitive games. Mods and mods alone are the only way to really start taking large chunks out of the CS player base. CS showed that if the game engine is good enough, with enough of a fanbase, word of mouth is all the publicity you will ever need. Hence why I am on the BU forum, recently converted from attempting to make mods for Q3, Ogre, Torque, HL2, among others. I am shamed it took me so long to give Unreal a chance, I had been such a diehard Q3 knucklehead I wrongly assumed UT was just another carbon copy. While the gameplay types are pretty vanilla, it's the engine of unreal that looks 2nd to none for making mods. Not just the engine, but also the tools already made that remove alot of the barriers standing in the way of us lowly "armchair game designer" scum. Mock us all you wan't but we are the only hope of making something fun and new because we don't take our paycheques from publishers and the rest of the suits that have never played a computer game in their lives.

So to end my meandering rant, keep up the good work UT team, and to the rest of you claiming there's no creativity left in games, load up Unrealed and get to work. Only gamers know what works and what doesn't in games. Fullstop.

renwald
 

UNFE|Jason

UNF :E Project leader
Nov 13, 2005
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To some degree he is correct the whole market is saturated with crap, but I don't think any one developer is responsible, the consumer is the one responsible for so many bad games on the market.

Personally I blame a lot of the current trend in releasing rip off 'if it sells make a sequel' or 'let's just make something like that game that sold well', on Sony, since they entered the console market, I have seen a trend in more and more games being made but most of them 'rip offs' or 'remakes'. The Sony connection has to do more with the wider audience that they opened up to; the 'casual gamer', and the blending of the console and PC game game market.

But are Epic responsible...Nah they are just falling into the same trap every other software maker has fallen into.

Innovation = time
Time = spending money
Spending money = going over budget and making profit margin smaller.

And if the game flops then its bad news for everyone.
 

[GU]elmur_fud

I have balls of Depleted Uranium
Mar 15, 2005
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For some reason i feel oblidged to chime in....

FPS games I like:
The entire Unreal series.
The entire Quake series.
The entire Doom series.
The entire Painkiller series. (not quite a series)
The entire Rune series. (ok it's not a series yet but I can dream)
Almost the entire DukeNukem series. (manhattan project was quite a let down)
there are others.

Games I don't like:
The entire MGS series...yeah it has more of a plot line the some but it's a BOARING ONE to me.
Call of duty
BF & BF2
and more...

So called realistic fps's just boar me, if I wanted to be in a realistic battle I would join the army.

I am not here to cannonize Cliffyb and burn this dude, but if I had to pick someone to tie to the stake it certainly wouldn't be cliffyb. Since when does the US have a corner on bad gaming and the orient turn out loads gems anyway.

The orient has the largest gaming dungheap on the planet, more POS games come out there then anywhere else. And maybe more good games come out of the orient then anywhere else as well, but thats only because more games come out there then anywhere else. I read somewhere that an average of 50 games a month launch in the greater orient...sounds to me like there is someone else flooding the market with crap.

I have nothing against oriental games I own alot of them, but percentage wise I think if tallied the bigger crap pile would be over there and not here.
 

stephen_wq

AKA The--Grim--Reaper
Dec 15, 2003
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I dont love cliffyb, i just like the whole UT series.
The reason i would say its turning to this, is because names are recognised, and smaller companies are pushed away by huge companies like EA games, thats who should get this hate mail. You think they make clones? well look at the whole sports series. A new version every year, all the same. They buy out the good small successful companies and turn them into rubbish.
Its influences like this which is causing companies to live off their title that is recognised, and then those who become loyal search for more works by them.
 

FoolishOwl

New Member
Dec 18, 2005
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The "hate mail" was pretty well written, as far as that goes. It's odd to attack CliffyB personally for industry-wide problems, and championing games produced in Japan over games produced in the US is pretty arbitrary. The trouble is that computer games are a big business, and that business plays by the same rules as the music industry: producing the same thing, over and over and over, even when countless amateurs and semi-professionals are struggling to produce genuinely creative content.

I enjoy playing UT2k4, and it does feature some innovations over its predecessors, particularly Onslaught mode. But in general, I find it to be a polished, refined version of UT99. Stylistically, almost all the interesting, distinctive features of Unreal have been removed from the game, with the Skaarj and a few other details the last reminders of the game's history. Unreal had a sharply distinctive tone and style, and some community mappers still try to retain that, but as for the content provided by Epic, the game's feel is converging with that of the Quake series. It's like a choice between McDonald's and Burger King.

My real disappointment with UT2K4 is that it's being treated as a cash cow. The Megabonus pack, just released, featured some good new maps, but several that I'd downloaded a year or more ago. I didn't see a map by CliffyB. And has it escaped people's attention that the nifty in-game display of community news hasn't been updated since February, and includes several typos? And that the official Website mentions the Megabonus pack, but otherwise hasn't been updated in months, and includes out-of-date information?

UT2K4 does what it does very well, but it's no longer a site for innovation.
 

UnrealDirektor

Unreal and Anime Fanatic (Avatar I like)
Originally Posted by Nahand
... important [unnoficial] tread rules:

1. You must, impreterably, be 21 or older to speak anything even remotely related with "originality" in this tread;

I am 19 turning to 20, gamer for the past 12 years. I have a life ... though I am living it just barelly.

2. Complimenting point 1. , you must have had a decent playbase of diferent games, in diferent game systems, during the refered time;

I played quite a few dozens of games, wich now I consider a perfect waste of time. I played lots of marvelous games and crapy ones from the most-holy-of-all fallout 1 to blood-bath Blood Rayne 2. Check.

3. You must not reply to yourself with such supporting arguments as fanboy talk about console games;

I hate console. I hope console makers drown in their money. I hope there won't be anymore console game releases. But its a nice dream aye? Till' there will be ppl buying consoles for console games there will be consoles around. To think of it... Consoles are produced at way higher cost then the prices they are sold. So consol makers make up for their loses by selling games at overrated prices. heh ... conspiration theory.

4. True fact: UT2007 (independently of name tag) will suck - it's a dreamy/shiny version of UT2004 with some bad elements of UT thrown in and even worse graphical style;

Wha'!? Now your one disilusioned fan. Such a pesimistic afirmation ... boost up your morale a little bit. Maybe it will be good, did that occured to you?

5. This [unnoficial] tread rules bulletin was brought to you by Inuit Corp. If, by any remote chance, you do not associate the company tag with something , without using Google or so, you most definitely shouldn't be here.

... I hate comercials.
 

Kyllian

if (Driver == Bot.Pawn); bGTFO=True;
Aug 24, 2002
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I've come to the realization that there are few original ideas for games, but there are plenty of original ideas to add to games

For example, UT was(as far as I know) the first game to make dual firemodes for each weapon(not counting zoom) and it included dodging(again, as far as I know, UT was first with this)

Can't forget bullet-time(granted, it's been used to death now, but it was pretty damn revolutionary for it's time)


And since when has BU allowed posting by guests? :weird:
 

UnrealDirektor

Unreal and Anime Fanatic (Avatar I like)
Kyllian, your right. That was the thing that cought my atention. The weapons demanded some tactics to use, actually still demand and the dodeging worths **** if you don't know WHEN to use it. Its about timing and dancing a deadly groove with your enemy. I had some fair fights in UT, but in UT2k4 with the larger variety of moves each of my fights are real acrobatic masterpieces. Hail to all of you virtual gladiators, whom faced me in virtual arenas and kicked my ass so hard I couldn't walk for a week. ... lol ...
 
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U

Unregistered

Guest
Don't expect innovations from the games. FPS will always feature shooting someone.
UT04=Shoot someone in a sci-fi ubiverse
WW2 Games=Shoot someone back in WW2
Basically the only things that can do stuff and make leaps are mods. It's all mods. CS is one, maybe some mods for UT04 as well. There's a mod for SC and WC3 that could also bring some small innovation around. Thing is, nothing is new these days. You're breathing the same air as Hitler, Shakespeare, and the first caveman, only difference is that there's pollution.
 

UnrealDirektor

Unreal and Anime Fanatic (Avatar I like)
Ironic and very satiric. Not to mention how cinical. Basicaly our unregistered user is right. UT2k4 is about shooting somebody. The great difference its that is done with style :D You kill em' with style. Though ... when I am playing CTF I use mostly stealth tactics ... if that ain't working ... I run like a scared n00b on the shortest way back to the base. lol
 

[GU]elmur_fud

I have balls of Depleted Uranium
Mar 15, 2005
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hmm duke3d had the shrinker where you could shrink/expand or stomp... not the same as alt fire but similar.


off topic would love to see a mut for ut2k4 that allowed you to shrink foes then smash them with an oversized hammer.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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don't expect innovations from games, it's just pressing a bunch of buttons ;)
sure now we're using 3D instead of mere 2D movement of the good ol' days, but did anything really change ?

All the core ideas have been done. The only thing that's left is mixing and matching the ingredients into something that's tasty.

Consumers don't want innovative gameplay, all they really want is the same old **** over and over again. They've proven that in every market invented so far. From clothing to cars to food. That's why McDreck & co are popular, while the real restaurants with good cooks are often more difficult to find. Yet ... is there anyone in here that thinks quality meals have gone the way of the dodo ? Anyone ever written a letter to whoever is topdog at McD saying they didn't want hamburgers anymore and that they really should be serving stuffed turkeys ?

If you really wanted innovation then you should not have been rewarding the developers & publishers for all the sequels they've made.
 

DeeperShade

Banned
Dec 8, 2000
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Sorry, but the author has a damned good point. Perhaps he is one sandwich short, but that doesn't detract from what he was trying to say.

This market has become too saturated with same old same old.
It's why blue moon games such as FEAR are popular (regardless of their 1.10 patch screw up). Because they do bring something completely new to the mix. Sure, bullettimes/slow down's been done. Sure it's just another FPS. But the Horror element, ie the mixing of genres hasn't been widely attempted.

I can't think of another horror fps (and if anyone dares try and say Doom is horror, I'm going to rape your firstborn.)