CliffyB Gets Hate Mail

[Sir_Brizz]

Games will never be like they used to be. Its about money, and money alone these days. CliffyB is making games because it makes him money, not because he wants to play them.

The day they will makes games they want to play, is the day original ideas will born a lot more.

CliffyB is awsome, because of him I'm an Unreal freak. But I never played any other Unreal game like I did play original Unreal and UT. I hope that UT2007(and I hope they change that lame name) will be at the same level that UT was.

I mean come on, why do you think they make exclusives? When they will port GOW to PC, they will not pay the same attention to its detail like they are dowing with the xbox360. I hope I'm wrong.

I agree to some degree.

The problem is, we have no idea WHAT they "want" to play. Maybe GoW is just it.

Another issue is licensing/publishing deals. AFAIK GoW has been in production for alot of years and Epic has never had any interest in finding a publisher up to this point. The fact is, them partnering with Microsoft probably gave them a higher percentage of the royalties on the game than some other publisher, and that's the number one reason people do exclusives, in a nutshell.

 

[KDR_11k]

I think some people are really showing maturity with their "Mutilate and kill him" talk...

The FPS genre has changed the least since its inception. Half-Life 2 plays like Quake with a few vehicle sections and physics demos thrown in. While this guy really failed basic reasoning (especially his "only Japan can do anything!" talk), Epic isn't really a big well of innovation so at least part of the letter is justified. I mean, what were the biggest innovations in UT2003? Adrenaline? Wasn't that something that made people cheer when it was announced not to reappear in UT 2007?

Of course publishers prefer rehashes and they generate more money than a bad innovationy game (a good and well received innovationy game, however, will outsell the rehashes, see The Sims or Grand Theft Auto 3) but that doesn't mean we should be satisfied with that. Rehashes are fun the first few times but at some point you have to draw the line, I certainly won't be picking up any major (or not major) FPSes for the next few years unless they have an overwhelming number of mods out. It all starts to blend together and 5GB of HD space each for games that pretty much play the same anyway is a goddamn waste to me. Perhaps if I wait long enough FPSes will start to feel interesting again.

Personally I'm looking more towards the indie and free software (not the Stallman kind) market, they have nothing to lose so they can try some new concepts.

Hearing about games like GoW or UT2007 isn't very exciting for me these days, I don't know how GoW will play but if Epic listens to their fans UT2007 will just be a shiny version of UT (couldn't stand that one personally, I preferred UT2003/04). But then again, I felt the same way about 2004 and ran out to buy it after playing Onslaught in the demo so who knows? Perhaps Conquest will revive the FPS again, perhaps it'll feel the same.

I'm surprised there haven't been many Katamari references thrown around in this thread...

 

[Rambowjo]

Bold Rambo believes, that this person is a fanboy

 

[UnrealDirektor]

A real shame if you guys, who insult Epic, call yourself gamers. Unreal Tournament 99' (sounds more UTish) and Unreal Tournament 2k4 were and are the best first person shooters around. No offence taken, but the perfect bot A.I., balanced weapons, reduced as number, but still ultra important special "moves and grooves", breath-taking feeling when you frag somebody and prove your skill and talent over his/her (no discrimination, though I love getting gang-banged/raped by girls ), all that made me love and worship those two games. I respect Epic even if it had only the Unreal Franchise as a real reference series. An other thing I respect in Epic is the fan-community interaction. Not many other developers really launched games that were meant to be EXPANDED by THE FAN COMMUNITY. Epic did. I already posted my collection of UT2k4 stuff, so I won't repeat myself ... (it is true its 32 gigs now ... though...). I just want to say no normal gamer should mess with poor Epic ppl, they didn't MESSED up THAT MUCH, till' now, (well Unreal 2 The Setting and Unreal Tournament 200E - UT2k4 = boo) a real shame. And if UT2k7 combines all the good parts of UT and UT2k4, then I need to make a comp upgrade ... again

Originality. Weeeeeee ... NOW THAT IS SOMETHING I could keep a philosophical speech of. We play football for over 3000 years, if taken into consideration the koreans invented it ... or the Greeks or whatever. PPl watch other ppl kick around a ball, and they don't get bored. PPl do that for decades. You can't really say football is original, now can you? I mean they do play based on the same rules for decades ... the only real thing they can bring in are new "kick styles" and players. I can see the same thing going on with FPS. We are "virtual athletes" training in "virtual arenas", you can't really revolutionize the FPS genre anymore ... only combine it with other genres making hybrids... That’s originality? No, but I enjoyed the unreal engine Deus Ex mixed with RPG and the best story ever (for me) more then most of the newest so called "original" games (no name, no payne). I love and hate hybrids cause they end up being "block-busters" or "not-worth-to-recycle".

I suggest all of you who start threads about originality should reconsider the word "ORIGINALITY". Go on, suggest a new genre you originality-obsessed ppl ... like 4th person tactical jerk-off-in-front-of-ladies-and-run-biatch-before-the-P-O-L-I-C-E-gets-you. Now THAT would be a game I wouldn't play! Even if I am one sick psycho, I still have my principles and morale standards that’s for sure. O.K. that was pessimistic, I love originality, but if they **** it up, it is the worst thing in the "virtual world".

And yes ... MGS1 was original back in its days, if I don't count the real goldie-oldie-prehistoric Saboteur game. And the "newer-oldest" Thief 1. But now it will be MGS4 ... 4. Is that bad? HELL NO! If the game is good. Devil May Cry 4 will come out for PS3. Is it original? HELL NO! Is it a good game? We will see ... DMC3? Did I banged my head into the wall because its a console game and I can't play it only at my best friend? HELL YES! Same goes for TEKKEN 5 which is at its 5th episode, it is still a GREAT game. Is it original ... no ... is it one of the best, if not the best fighting games? YES. Now japanese ppl invent original content once in a while, but everybody does so. If those thing are really original, I let you decide. I criticize and I am skeptical whenever "NEW" comes out. This cause I was hurt way too many times *sighs the stupid bastard* ... And the japanese do stupid stuff too. ... Like Final Fantasy. Hope I won't get stabbed for this statement, but its just FF is a kid's game. I mean it has nothing to make it really that original (not to mention it has 12 versions or more .......), the story would be good, if the chars wouldn't be some naive kiddos with absolutely no perspective, the battle system everybody seems to love is ... not TB, not RT is ... something, and its virtually only about hack n' slashing WITHOU AND PLAYING SKILLS to go up in levels. NOW IF THAT’S ORIGINAL ... then I am not a hungarian-romanian hybrid. I can fetch at least 20 game names based on that concept. So basically I am saying ... There aren't really original games anymore ... its just almost impossible to make something ... I start to hate this word... original. You can only bring more original concept into an ancient genre.

O.K. I wrote enough. I don't even think anybody would read all that. But I wished to share you my point of view over originality and the best FPS games ever (if you disagree with me please go and die - just joking, rather bury yourself alive ... joking again) UT99' and UT2K4 with you my family, dear fan-community. Peace and prosperity.

P.S.: ... and endless fraging, just to make the previous statement a complete contradictory.

 

[KDR_11k]

A real shame if you guys, who insult Epic, call yourself gamers.

There are many gamers that don't even like the genre. Then there are those that are getting tired of the excessive numbers of FPSes that were everything a PC gamer could play for a looong time. Why do Epic and iD keep working on the same genre all the time? Why not try something different once in a while? Even playing it safe is not a reason not to try other genres.

I suggest all of you who start threads about originality should reconsider the word "ORIGINALITY". Go on, suggest a new genre you originality-obsessed ppl ...

Would be enough if they added some new ideas to current genres. Ideas that make the game feel different, not "we'll add more cutscenes!". Look at all the variations of sidescrolling platformers, there is a much larger variety of those than there is of FPS games. Would physics like seen in Sonic benefit an FPS? Who knows but why don't we try it? Would using a ninja rope in an FPS (a singleplayer one) change it for the better? When was the last time we've seen a strategy FPS?

like 4th person tactical jerk-off-in-front-of-ladies-and-run-biatch-before-the-P-O-L-I-C-E-gets-you.

I'm pretty sure there is such a game in Japan.

Same goes for TEKKEN 5 which is at its 5th episode, it is still a GREAT game. [...] is it one of the best, if not the best fighting games? YES.

*shouts into DS microphone* OBJECTION!! Tekken is among the weakest and most unintuitive fighting games I've played, Soul Calibur mops the floor with it.

 

[Phopojijo]

When was the last time we've seen a strategy FPS?

Battlefield 2

Anywho, again I believe that people don't know what they want... there are plenty of good innovative games that are released (Indigo Prophecy, Katamari, Privateer1, Ultima Online, BattletechMUX {free even}) But you don't PLAY those games... you PLAY UnrealTournament, Halo 2, and all the various rehashes and sequels.

So just shut up about it.

Want innovation? Play innovation -- you're not so what are you complaining about?

 

[UnrealDirektor]

"There are many gamers that don't even like the genre. Then there are those that are getting tired of the excessive numbers of FPSes that were everything a PC gamer could play for a looong time. Why do Epic and iD keep working on the same genre all the time? Why not try something different once in a while? Even playing it safe is not a reason not to try other genres."

Your 100% right KDR. Until I played UT I was completely left cold by FPSs. Give me Master of Orion 2, Imperium Galactica 2, Caesar 3 or even StarCraft. I love tactical games and I am more a leader then a grunt. Hence the name, i like directing stuff . Though you could ask yourself why Blizzard didn't made a FPS till now? What? StarCraft: Ghost for Xbox? riiiight... Anyway ... if Epic releases a strategy game like ... Unreal Wars ... and they mess it up, others will point at them and laugh. They did made an action game ... for Xbox ... grrrrr ... thatss a change ... or was it FPS? most ppl I heard play it from third person view anyway. My point is Epic, has experience only in action and FPS genre ... Though I would like to see an adventure .... I mean that genre is almost dead ... *sighs thinking of Grim Fandango*. Hmmm .. question is .. KDR would you play something else then FPSs from Epic?

 

[tool]

CliffyB is sexy and I love him. Screw inovation and new idea's, UT2k4 is awsome. And what has come out of Japan that is original and new? We Love Katamari is about the only thing I can think. And that just barely counts. Sure I love my Asian developed games just as much as the next person, but they aren't any better than American developed games.

And why hasn't europe gotten any love? Europe makes some of the best vide o games in my opinion. Check out Anarchy Online, space ranges 2 or X3: Reunion. And there are a bunch more that I can't think of off the top of my head right now, because i'm a slow thinker and all.

 

[UnrealDirektor]

Same goes for TEKKEN 5 which is at its 5th episode, it is still a GREAT game. [...] is it one of the best, if not the best fighting games? YES.

Tekken 5 and Soulcalibur 3 comes from the same company. I like Tekken 5 cause you can make so many different moves in so many different ways to make so many different effects. BUT SoulCalibur has something I really only seen in UT2k4 (my extended version) ... DIVERSITY. And not in the combos, but in the matter of skins and specials. Though the strategy part sucks.

 

[UnrealDirektor]

Weeeeeeeeeee I completely forgot about European developers ... sure EA RULES ..........................................................................

Now don't missunderstand me, I am european from top to bottom, BUT beside a few producers ... maybe Ubisoft ... we don't have too much to offer.

 

[tool]

Same goes for TEKKEN 5 which is at its 5th episode, it is still a GREAT game. [...] is it one of the best, if not the best fighting games? YES.

Tekken 5 and Soulcalibur 3 comes from the same company. I like Tekken 5 cause you can make so many different moves in so many different ways to make so many different effects. BUT SoulCalibur has something I really only seen in UT2k4 (my extended version) ... DIVERSITY. And not in the combos, but in the matter of skins and specials. Though the strategy part sucks.

No way! Have you played Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution? That puts Tekken 5 to shame. Soul Calibur 3 is excellent however, i'll give you that. But I like Soul Calibur 2 a lot more because its single player modes are a lot more fun.

 

[UnrealDirektor]

*feels dumb* I never knew there WAS a virtua fighter 4 ... again ... here we go ... 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ... Je ... the japanese DO make a lot of sequels...

 

[UnrealDirektor]

uhg ... and the girls ... they look so sweet in Tekken ... and the locations and the music and ... ARGH! Basicly I hate consoles, but even if most of the games are sequels on them, and lack originality (they have certain Fine TUnes, like some extracool effects), some can really make me drool. And I have to admit it. Yes, Soulcalibur 3 did made a lot of changes to be tagged as original ... the char creation, some more reduced "skin-making" utility and other certain functions does make it an interesting game. But the basics are still to use your powers and make that one guy fall flat. And since SOulcalibur 3 has lesser combos then Tekken 5, they are quite in a head-tie. VF4 though ... never thought of that one .. lol.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

The FPS genre has changed the least since its inception. Half-Life 2 plays like Quake with a few vehicle sections and physics demos thrown in. While this guy really failed basic reasoning (especially his "only Japan can do anything!" talk), Epic isn't really a big well of innovation so at least part of the letter is justified. I mean, what were the biggest innovations in UT2003? Adrenaline? Wasn't that something that made people cheer when it was announced not to reappear in UT 2007?

So then, what IS innovation? Is it trying a new idea, or trying something completely brand new? There hasn't been an implement in any of society ever that was 100% original. Every single thought has been built from some other thought, and it really is amazing that there is any originality or creativity left at all.

Still, UT2003 had a super complex movement system, adrenaline, the lightning gun, bombing run, and a buttload of other stuff that was, even according to Epic, really risky to add into a game like Unreal Tournament game due to the fanbase. Epic has room to take those kinds of risks, and as usual some of them were successful and some of them failed. That's how game development goes.

I would really like to know how some people in here plan to spice up the FPS genre? What more can you do than has already been done and will be called a cheap knock-off? Jetpacks? Already done. Super-ultra-mega-machine-guns? Already done. WW2? Already done. WW3? Already done. Once a huge leap in technology takes place, the amount of innovation that can take place is always slower. It's like the wheel. How long did it take us to come up with the automobile or even the train? Yet every small innovtion that was made led to the point we are at now. I think whining about how little innovation there is in a GENRE is particularly frivolous. Innovation isn't giant leaps, it's little steps.

If we were talking about the industry as a whole, I'd be more inclined to agree (and I still blame publishers for that).

 

[Automatic Kafka]

There are plenty of ways to change the genre, I myself have several ideas that would really change the way people play but the technology is not yet at the state where certain visions can be achieved.

 

[Nahand]

... important [unnoficial] tread rules:

1. You must, impreterably, be 21 or older to speak anything even remotely related with "originality" in this tread;

2. Complimenting point 1. , you must have had a decent playbase of diferent games, in diferent game systems, during the refered time;

3. You must not reply to yourself with such supporting arguments as fanboy talk about console games;

4. True fact: UT2007 (independently of name tag) will suck - it's a dreamy/shiny version of UT2004 with some bad elements of UT thrown in and even worse graphical style;

5. This [unnoficial] tread rules bulletin was brought to you by Inuit Corp. If, by any remote chance, you do not associate the company tag with something , without using Google or so, you most definitely shouldn't be here.






... and... al your base are belong to cliché, God Of Random...

 

[Cursed_Soul]

Lol nahand,

I just love that comment

 

[Automatic Kafka]

4. True fact: UT2007 (independently of name tag) will suck - it's a dreamy/shiny version of UT2004 with some bad elements of UT thrown in and even worse graphical style;

So when exactlly did you play 2007?

 

[Unregistered]

The world now days is just as evil as it was thoughsands of years ago.

But its better that we kill and murder people in a virtual world then in an arena where they dont respawn.

 

[Bang_Doll]

I just want to say two things:


Whoever called the original Unreal "poor" by FPS standards: die now kthx.


And - God, I ****ing loved Bombing Run. Gonna ****ing miss that ****.