Cliff B Tweaks PC Gamers Over MIA Bulletstorm Demo
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It would kind of suck if all successful efforts on the PC turned out to be dungeon crawling treasure hunting stat boosting life suckers...
like it used to be, lol.
Shoot, I'm so lazy anymore I don't even want to put a disk in the drive.
like it used to be, lol.
Shoot, I'm so lazy anymore I don't even want to put a disk in the drive.
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Well you should, since they gonna end up dictating how you gonna play games in the future. There was a podcast released after the announcement of DOTA2 where the guy spoke in detail how Valve was giving Steam a total overhaul to a accommodate DOTA2 and it's demanding features. Those changes will eventually carry over to the games you play in the future. Hopefully...or they not gonna last very long.
Which is why we need to make sure as many type of genre can prosper on the PC as possible, whether they be indie or commercial. I mean even if Valve succeed in making DOTA 2 popular, I would be pretty pissed if all we are going to be seeing is DOTA and DOTA clones. It's going to be MMORPG/Microtransaction games all over again.
The last Epic game that was developed initially for and released on PC was Unreal Tournament, you know, the "99" version (even then the game was released later on Dreamcast and Playstation). If Epic has "abandoned" their legacy, it was done a long time ago. I find it peculiar that you feel their lack of PC only games to be a recent development.
Epic gives back to PC gaming almost more than any other developer. EA, Blizzard and other powerhouses churn out game after game, but they do nothing to reinvest in PC gaming. Epic has given us UDK, so that the little guys have a chance to get started and possibly break out in gaming. Out of all the big name developers, Epic seems to remember most what it was like to be a small startup trying to become established in a dog-eat-dog world.
Publishers evaluate the risk to make a game on PC, if it turns out its too risky it wont be done, its as simple as that.
Gears of War? GTA4?
That steam sales drive the numbers isnt really surprising, but that means you have to be the lucky one to be put on the frontpage of steam, alot of games compete for that spot, if youre not one of them - bad luck!
Lets put it this way - the plattform is not generating enough money to finance the type of games that hardcore PC gamers want to have. Another factor is that piracy of the PC version can hurt console sales, which is why you see Rockstar delaying PC versions or some other publishers simply not bothering with it at all!
Indiegames on the other hand arent as expenisve as AAA games and therefore can work on PC.
Its not as simple as that - the PC market is already in the hands of a few, there is no point to compete with these if you know that investing your money in console will get you MORE money with less risk!
PopCap is a great example, because they make insane amounts of money on PC with cheap games - very low risk - high reward, the exacte opposite of AAA games.
Yes because the markt completely changed since then, what worked then doesnt work anymore now! Look at id software a shadow of their former self. Look at Call of Duty a PC franchise that now makes 90% of its profit on consoles!
Yes its easier to get lucky which translates to LESS risk which is what i have been talking about the whole time - for big pubs that invest big money its all about minimizing the risks.
On the PC market you compete with:
Piracy, F2P browser games, Facebook games, Freeware, Flashgames, Emulators
On console you compete with:
Piracy (very low) and competitor games
So its not really surprisng isnt it?
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I never said it was recent, it started after they found money with GoW that they turn from PC. Epic also internally developed UT2k4, even if it was build from UT2k3, when they took charge of development back from Digital Extremes.
As for the UT99 ports, those ones came after UT99 PC release, so I have no reason to be mad at those. If the current Epic still had that kind of respect for PC, then I would have no issues with them.
Blizzard created GalaxyEditor, and that was a big undertaking that improved on the old StarEdit. While it may not be as capable as UDK, especially its lack of ability to create a standalone title, it is still very powerful and allows user to create many robust things beyond the scope of normal SC2 gameplay. I never doubted the potential Epic has given to PC with the UDK, but they didn't create it in mind just to help the little guys. They simply wanted more business partners, since Epic does get royalties from UDK games sales (whether that is a lot or not a lot is subjective), and that is a fine business practice. I mean even Crytek is probably going to follow in those steps with CryEngine3, so it is obviously a good plan. But to say Epic created UDK because they remember the hardships felt by the little guys may be a bit naive.
Also, as I said before, UDK just gives PC potential good games, but Epic did not give something immediate and absolute to help PC gaming. It still takes a lot of time and development to learn and use UDK, and many indie makers may not complete their work or create very well received work. And that is one thing Blizzard has over Epic, they not only created GalaxyEditor but also SC2, which is a grand testament to both PC gaming and PC game sales. Blizzard also have D3 in development as well, and even if it does not do as well as SC2 in the worse case, it is still a hell of a lot more than what Epic has done.
Oh well it's gonna be an interesting year for FPS in the 1st quarter:
Crysis2/Brink/Bulletstorm
The problem is gonna lie in the lasting appeal. One problem though at least for me is that unlike games like SC2/HoN I won't be able to play against the world since FPS require a sub 100 ping to stand a chance in.
Meaning unless the game becomes popular in my country (South Africa) the online component is gonna be useless to me. And there aren't many spots for FPS games.
The removal of LAN from most games today makes it even worse, rendering some games dead on arrival. Quick example Singularity/Section8.
Crysis2/Brink/Bulletstorm
The problem is gonna lie in the lasting appeal. One problem though at least for me is that unlike games like SC2/HoN I won't be able to play against the world since FPS require a sub 100 ping to stand a chance in.
Meaning unless the game becomes popular in my country (South Africa) the online component is gonna be useless to me. And there aren't many spots for FPS games.
The removal of LAN from most games today makes it even worse, rendering some games dead on arrival. Quick example Singularity/Section8.
You know, I wouldn't even have cared about the lack of a PC demo. I've gotten used to the idea that most games these days don't even get demos, and the ones that do are usually very hastily-constructed demos. I was more than prepared to just not even care.
But once Cliffy jumps up on his box and says "Demo for consoles, none for PC, suck it" as he just did?
I do not do business with companies that insult their customers.
Cliffy has directly cost Epic what was, until now, a guaranteed sale.
But once Cliffy jumps up on his box and says "Demo for consoles, none for PC, suck it" as he just did?
I do not do business with companies that insult their customers.
Cliffy has directly cost Epic what was, until now, a guaranteed sale.
The whole "suck it" part was just a response to the usual outburst of the PC fanbase when the absence of a PC demo was mentioned.
Publishers base their risk on assumed risk which is based on how well other games in a particular genre have done. Obviously, since so many games on PC are not well done, they don't sell well. And so the assumed risk for a new game in any genre on the PC is extremely high. Catch 22.
And do you know WHY those games were not successful? I'll give you a hint: it had nothing to do with the gameplay.
Steam runs two sales a week. I think it's pretty likely that whoever wants their game to go on sale in a midweek or weekend sale can do it. They've even doubled up games before (and had 50/50 cross promotion).
Let me simplify what I'm saying to you by giving hypothetical numbers.
If a game releases on the 360 and makes $50m net profit and the same game is released on the PC and makes $25m net profit, did the PC game fail? The industry right now is saying that, yes, the PC version failed.
So your opinion is that the of the 3 million concurrent users on Steam at any given time, 100% of them are in the pocket of a developer and wouldn't buy any other developers' games? That seems like a pretty shallow view of what is going on in the PC market right now.
The problem is that there are a few developers making extremely good PC games, and to compete with them you can't be lazy and release a direct 360 port with no thought given to the PC version of the game. What publishers are looking for is 0% cost, 100% profit scenarios on the PC, which is simply ridiculous.
PopCap is a bad example because they sell their extremely simple games for a premium price on the PC. The fact that they are successful at doing that is irrelevant because their situation is unique across ALL platforms (every platform they release on they are extremely successful, even your "safe" console platforms. Probably even more successful than most AAA games.).
How?
And how much thought is put into the PC versions of any recent CoD game? And how much net revenue do the PC versions make?
How does the chance of getting luck translate to decreased risk? The risk is exactly the same, there is just a possibility that the risk pans out.
If you're going to make a ridiculous statement like that, then you have to say that consoles are competing with all the same things. You don't think people play flash games, facebook games, f2p pc games and emulators over their consoles all the time? You act like people pick one game and stick with it forever, which just doesn't happen anymore.
See, Brizz understands.
Now featuring PC-exclusive features like Mouse/Keyboard support, graphics settings, and in-game text chat!
yeah, what a concept.
And it's not as simple as just slapping keyboard/mouse on there either. We need settings for that too.
And don't just use the 360 menus, and then slap a cursor on it... IT DOESN'T WORK RIGHT!
Another problem is hiring third parties to do the porting with no oversight, and those third parties are just in it for the quick buck too, so it ends up triple bad.
If a problem arises that needs patching, the main site for the game will tell you to contact the guys that did the port (who also count as a publisher in those cases), who usually don't care enough to answer an email.
So basically you're **** outta luck, while the consolers get multiple patches.
'Aspyr' *shudders*
No wonder they dont' want to make a demo; people will realize the game is broken and won't buy it.
And it's not as simple as just slapping keyboard/mouse on there either. We need settings for that too.
And don't just use the 360 menus, and then slap a cursor on it... IT DOESN'T WORK RIGHT!
Another problem is hiring third parties to do the porting with no oversight, and those third parties are just in it for the quick buck too, so it ends up triple bad.
If a problem arises that needs patching, the main site for the game will tell you to contact the guys that did the port (who also count as a publisher in those cases), who usually don't care enough to answer an email.
So basically you're **** outta luck, while the consolers get multiple patches.
'Aspyr' *shudders*
No wonder they dont' want to make a demo; people will realize the game is broken and won't buy it.
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I'm still dumbfounded when I see a game that supports 360 controllers as the only controller option. Like seriously? There's this API called DirectInput. Use it for crying out loud.
I'm sorry, but Epic's "giving" is laughable at best. First of all, their efforts with UDK carry an underlining of $$$ to be made. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but at the end of the day, would they still be doing UDK if there were NO CHANCE it would bring them revenue (via new engine licensing?) Their arrogance torwards the PC market (see also said "tweet") really screws with the whole "giving back" mantra as well... Besides, they make ****ty ass games that just perpetuate all the stigmas devs blame the platform for anyway.
IMO, Blizzard actually gives back to PC gaming by making and selling PC games that illustrate the kind of quality possible in a PC title. Not only that, but by making games that don't require a massive hype machine to sell (everyone knows what they're buying well before they open their wallet), they destroy so many of the ****ty excuses devs use to cover their own asses when their stuff doesn't sell.
It's all eye of the beholder....
Or games that are some kind of Frankenstein's Monster between the two.
I mean, games that originated on the consoles, then ported over to the PC, but the only thing they changed were the button prompts.
It says "PRESS START" as if it knows you're using the controller (let's face it some games are just better with a control pad), then when you get to the menus all you see is press Enter, or Esc, or F1 etc...
How the Eff am I supposed to know what F1 is on my control pad?
I just have to press every button until something works.
You can tell they thought they were giving us what we wanted, but they just made it worse.
A recent example I now own is Sega & Sonic All-Stars Racing, which otherwise is a great little kart racer, but there are worse culprits.
(who the **** plays a racing game with a keyboard?)
Can't they make two or three sets of prompt icons, then let us tell the game which control method we prefer - M&K, 360 Controller, Other - and it will change the prompts to accommodate our situation.
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As it should be. Then they buy the better platform and everyone makes PC games again.
Success!
Yes and the Catch22 wont be broken by complaining and NOT buying.
The opposite will happen - the LESS ppl buy games on PC the worse the situation will get.
I know exactly why they failed, but do you think Epic or Rockstar care about that? For them its a simple cost-benefit analysis and it DIDNT work, why it didnt work is secondary and therefore its simply not worth the hassle for them to bother again.
The ONLY way to make them consider PC again is by voting with the wallet - but currently PC gamers DONT do that (for Epic games at least)
Its not as easy as you would think
And its not like every game gets on steam the first place - a friend of mine who did work on an indiegame was DECLINED for Steam!
No, that would be a huge success
Currently its more like the console version makes $100m and the PC makes $5m which depending on the game might simply not be worth the hassle doing a PC version in the first place!
No it isnt, your view is very rose-tinted - i know personally a few indie teams, and its alot harsher in reality than people think it is! People ONLY hear about the successes, but they dont hear about the failures...
Of course they want 0% cost and 100% profit, EVERY company wants that, its part of our market economy! Neither Epic nor Rockstar or anyone else is obliged to provide you with what you want. Complaining about it wont change anything! They are only oblidged to their shareholders and their team members! Also a direct 360 port is still better than not getting the game at all!
If PC Gamers then complain and dont buy - what kind of signal does this send? Instead of "we want better PC versions" publishers will think to not bother with a PC version the next time!
They are targetting a market that wasnt in the focus of traditional publishers - casual players, same reason why the Wii kicks PS360´s ass
For CoD MW the split was 14 million on console at a price of 50$-60$ and PC 1-2 million at a price of 30$-40$
For CoD MW2 the split was even bigger and for Blops no clue but probably compareable.
Yes and the risk or luck factor is currently just way higher on PC, and thats a fact. Complaining about it wont change anything.
I should have made clear that i meant hardcore users - you cant compare people like us to to the general public out there, people like you and me who might own more than one consoles, a PC and handhelds and know everything about games.
The majority out there owns one console and sticks with it, they dont know about freeware games or emulators. They are the ones that are responsible that CoD sells 20 million on console, they just wanna sit on a couch and play some games
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