Yurch's antics reach a new level!

[keihaswarrior]

I agree that shrinking the cylinder that small would not be good. It is much worse to see your bullets go through someone and do no damage, than to have headshots happen a little more than they should.

--If I shoot someone, I wanna see some blood, it would majorly suck to see my .50 cal bullet pass through their arm and do nothing.

 

[RAZZ]

well, the reverse of that argument is that bullets through empty space are killing people. imo, thats not any more fair.
Agreed: both options suck. but we've learned to live with one, why not try the other?

Till theres a better collision setup, if it can even happen under ut, then theres not much to do.
going randomized is probly the best shot at a "Fair" game.

(edit: not to nitpick. but shots that hit past 200 meters in inf are very rare by my experience. If this calculation is to impact every 556 shot made in the game, its not going to affect much.)

 

[keihaswarrior]

First of all, the slightly too large hit box is fair since everyone's is the same.

Secondly, I can imagine myself lining up my sniper crosshairs on someone's arm or leg. I pull the trigger and I know I hit them, but it does nothing. --That is A LOT worse than getting headshotted when you shouldn't have. This is because you don't know when a bogus hs happens vs. a legit one, so you will never actually witness the bugged hitbox when you are at a disadvantage because of it.

The only time when you can witness the bugged hitbox is when it is helping you kill the enemy, therefore it is much less aggravating.

 

[RAZZ]

Any size is fair if everyone has the same collision zone.
The argument is for getting realism on the cheap.

I believe a smaller cylinder would be noticed by the victem as much as the attacker in the long run. And I suggest that its not any different a sin than what we have now.
You go from attackers exploiting larg collision boxes, to victems exploiting small ones.

If people are harder to hit while not being harder to kill when hit, it sounds like something worth trying.

 

[Kaoh]

I agree with RAZZ, a smaller hitbox would seem a bit more realistic, even tho a sure hit in a arm wouldnt do anything, in RL arm hits dont kill that way anyway, I prefer the hitbox being slightly to small isntead of slightly to big.
You know it also sucks getting head shot while your not even leaning around the corner just yet
A flesh wound is not as deadly as a wound that penetrates organs and blood lines (<--insert difficult to type word there) so it not doing damage isnt that bad, you can even consider increase damage done per bullet if the hit box is smaller, to simulate the important stuf being hit.

 

[keihaswarrior]

I believe a smaller cylinder would be noticed by the victem as much as the attacker in the long run.

No, the victim would not notice it like the attacker would. The victim doesn't know where the bullets are going, therefore he doesn't know if he should or shouldn't have been hit. The attacker DOES know where the bullets are going.

As far as hits on the edge of the hitbox wounding less, the damage could simply be based on the distance to center mass. Therefore, hits on the edge of the hitbox would wound instead of killing, and center mass hits could kill often.

 

[Kaoh]

As far as hits on the edge of the hitbox wounding less, the damage could simply be based on the distance to center mass. Therefore, hits on the edge of the hitbox would wound instead of killing, and center mass hits could kill often.

Except that by nature the cylinder would always have the same distance to center no matter where it hits since the hit is on the edge of the cylinder.

 

[TOAD]

Except that by nature the cylinder would always have the same distance to center no matter where it hits since the hit is on the edge of the cylinder.

Extra calculations can be taken to create an 'internal hit box'. Duke and I already tried to make an internal spherical hit box for the head. It works fine but the problem is the head (mesh) moves all over the place. It just too tedious to match the internal hit box to the display of the mesh - it gets much worse looking at the soldier from the side. To see what I'm talking about, grab the sig and use the laser on someone standing still to 'feel' the collision cylinder.

 

[RAZZ]

The feedback is not as instantanious as the shooters, agreed. but it is in the evading players favor to have a smaller or more accurate hit zones as opposed to being in favor of the attacker with larger cylinders.
My theory is it would be easier to get behind cover and it would take a better shot to kill someone. This might result in something that plays out more accuratly.

Now imo: people are trained to shoot for center mass. not ankels, backpacks, invisible spaces or hand weapons.
At any firing range, missed shots dont score points. The same argument could be made here.
If everyone is aware of what the scoring system is, you can call anything "Fair".

 

[yurch]

The player leans forwards in general compared to his hitbox.

A major problem is that the hits are not calculated/located on the edge of the cylinder either - the game seems to allow them to fly into the hitbox a bit on occasion before reporting the locations sometimes - you have to take this error into account whenever you start talking edge/direction factors into play.
I had a nice little angular hit thingy get screwed up from this, UT can frustrate to no end sometimes.

 

[OICW]

Only sometimes yurch?

Anyway, just wait for Inf UT2003...waiting for 2.9 was bad enough, so that'll be the real test

 

[keihaswarrior]

Except that by nature the cylinder would always have the same distance to center no matter where it hits since the hit is on the edge of the cylinder.

Well I was mainly just repeating what yurch had mentioned earlier. I wouldn't think that it would measure distance from bullet impact to the axis of the cylinder. Instead it would measure the distance from the bullet impact to the line that passes from the middle of your hit cylinder through the middle of the enemy's cylinder.

Therefore, when you view an soldier, the game takes a line from the middle of your body and passes it through the middle of the opposing soldier's cylinder. When the bullets hit his cylinder, the game calculates the distance from the impact to the imaginary line that passed through his cylinder.

The system could be tweaked by changing where the line passes through the enemy. It would probably work best when placed in the upper middle of the cylinder (center of the torso).

 

[Kaoh]

The system could be tweaked by changing where the line passes through the enemy. It would probably work best when placed in the upper middle of the cylinder (center of the torso).

hmmm that could work...

 

[MP_Duke]

Yeah, that system is worth trying out KW_ as toad pointed out, we did implement extra trace calculations for headshots giving the effect that the soldier's head has the shape of a half sphere instead of a cylinder lol_
but as yurch mentioned, the hit report is not always accurate (given the high velocity of the projectiles and the nature and frequency of the tick functions in the engine, this is to be expected), even moreso online_

you see, the magic of the generalized client-server model that epicgames boasted over its predecessor used by old quake games is all fine and dandy... they just forgot to mention that at often times, the server and the client are at war, which is to say they will tend to go out of sync; and unfortunately, i think the client eventually always ends up being kicked in the balls! (but getting back on track..)

it's worth a shot_

 

[Kaoh]

Yeah, but if you keep the trace and calculations purely server-side and only replicate the effects and result that shouldnt be much of a problem... but that depends on how inf handles it, else it will a lot of work to alter

 

[RAZZ]

stupid question, but has anything (already) been done to adjust our rather enlarged hit boxes in the next version?
As things stand right now: people who think their behind cover usualy arnt.
Ill bet things are gonna get rougher with a saw on the gun list and the current hit detection still in place.

 

[LIGHTFIGHTER]

Yurch??

Holla!!!!

 

[Ice]

...





No.

 

[R-Force]

I wonder just how much got changed since the last time i checked... Yeah, i'm back for more...

 

[PROMAGNUM]

My god, this post is still alive...hahah