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XMP Update

Discussion in 'News & Articles' started by Prophetus, Jan 16, 2004.

  1. Rooster

    Rooster Local Legend

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    Heh.. I played enough of XMP to uninstall it after a few hearty (& heartfelt) tries.

    And I played UT for years, and UT2003 competively (at the highest level)... I've also played BF1942, 1942: Desert Combat and I look forward to UT2004.

    Believe me, I wish I had liked it. I just couldn't get over the poor quality of the game.

    I could list all the things that suck about XMP, but I've already done that a few times and its old now. XMP is a dead end game that is only holding a few people's interest until the next thing comes out.
     
  2. Rooster

    Rooster Local Legend

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    UT2003 didn't fail.

    And if you consider a failure because it didnt last 2+ years in the popular courts like UT did... then you're missing the big picture.

    The FPS genre & community has changed. The game designers have a big problem on their hands. The players want a game as good as their old favorites (be it Quack3, CS, UT). But they want new stuff... but then they complain when it's new. Then they realize they have to develop new skills (in the case of UT2003), which they don't like.. because they want to be as good at the new game as they were at their old favorite. As well, people are jaded. I believe it will be impossible for any game company to come out with hits as big as Quack3 or Unreal Tournament. Games will not longer have the longevity that those did either. People's attention span is shorter (compressed by faster hardware, faster bandwidth, more information on the internet). People's expectations are higher (some would say impossible to meet).

    I'm afraid to say that we'll never see another era like we did with Q3 & UT. In order to be different, companies are specializing their games - which makes it appeal to a narrower audience, and therefore shrinking the community that supports said game. So everyone will be ... this game sucks.

    Personally, I love Desert Combat. My reflexes aren't what they used to be (UT & UT 2003)... and it's more a thinking man's game, coupled with a strong need for teamwork. If it weren't so hard to get 10+ people together on each side for a match, I think it could take off. But that's the problem. Real people have real lives. The more players you make a game for, the lower your chances of getting competitive play out of it.

    Perhaps we'll see a small (3) player per side game (UT: CTF-Niven anyone?) that is fast paced but pretty enough and demanding enough, yet intuitive that players can pick it up pretty quick (ala Chess, easy to learn, HARD to master). It also needs to be familiar in GUI and interface so that the players you're going after don't feel like it's foreign or too much of a pain to use/play.

    That's where XMP fails. It doesn't FEEL like the game it's supposed to be. It's not intuitive and (from what I'm observing), there's a very low ceiling on skill - ie, the difference between a n00b and a vet is very small. The GUI is unintuitive, unimaginative and does not lend itself well to the game's experience.

    For those that have the comeback of: you must not have played it much...
    You sound like a fanboy that's just following the back - the game actually needs to be fun to play to keep people playing. XMP is not.

    XMP, along with the foundation it's built on: Unreal II, has failed.
     
  3. Zimnick

    Zimnick New Member

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    It seems to me that you appreciate the same game over with some adjustments made to it to make it feel new, and not ones that are completely innovative. I've played every game that you listed, and I beleive I know what I'm talking about.

    Edit: Oh, and I must tell you, Desert Combat isn't that much of a thinking man's game IMO, especially when it comes to the infantry combat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2004
  4. Nemephosis

    Nemephosis Earning my Infrequent Flier miles

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    Oh so THAT explains why everyone likes it.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but there's thousands of people playing it right now that disagree with you. I would hardly call that a failure.
     
  5. Prophetus

    Prophetus Old Fart

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    For the record...Epic has nothing to do with LE's demise. Atari owned LE 100% and it was totally their call. People need to stop assuming that Epic controls the future of every developer that uses the Unreal engine.

    As for XMP and its popularity, I personally loved it and so do many other people. XMP did not receive the funding or the advertising, therefore...it is taking some time for people to discover XMP. At the same time, many people base their initial opinion of XMP because of Unreal II's failures. For a free add on, XMP is great. Considering LE made XMP with no funding, spent numerous free time creating the game, while working on other projects, little or no official advertising...the game is a success. XMP would have become better if Atari would have given it funding and time.

    Alas, LE is gone but it has nothing to do with Epic. I don't know why Atari released LE, but the timing is poor...I'm sure we can agree this is true. I firmly believe that another two months, XMP's community would have grown. Even under UT2004's shadow. Atari should have waited...XMP is a rough diamond...but a diamond none-the-less. Many of us who worked closely with the project certainly believed a future version of XMP could have rivaled many class base FPS multiplayer games. However, time constraints and lack of any funding produced this water downed version of XMP. Although it didn't reach the ultimate goal in design...the current product is a testament of how one game developer truly appreciates the community.

    Whether you like or hate XMP, it is a good game considering all the obstacles thrown at it during the development. I personally appreciate the their hard work and loyalty. Too bad Atari disagreed.
     
  6. Rooster

    Rooster Local Legend

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    Neme, not everyone likes it. Hardly even a majority really.

    Look at the numbers playing. :(

    (I still wish I had liked it, or that it had been good). The time I saw a disappointment like this was Daikatana. Riding on the good works in the past won't get you far.
     
  7. the_f_word

    the_f_word New Member

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    If you think that UT and Q3 were part of some golden era then you have no idea what makes a good game, the gameplay for those two titles was CRAP - total and utter crap. Who enjoys playing deathmatch against mindless bots? Their only redeeming point was multiplayer, and even that was nothing that hadnt been done before - they just did it with better gfx. The only thing they had going for them was impressive graphics for their time.

    So Q3 and UT were wonderful games with such immersive dynamic gameplay and storyline which took your breath away? ROFL - They are games which focus on one thing deathmatch, if any game is specialised and shrunken it was those titles, which sucked cock because of that fact.

    STFU Rooster you are a retard, your opinion is worthless.
     
  8. Prophetus

    Prophetus Old Fart

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    Erm...Rooster if far from a retard and his opinions are valid, just as yours and mine. Let's not resort to name calling and character cuts. Rooster's been with this community long before some of you knew how to spell "computers". In addition, he was an admin here...still has the priviledges too. Not saying he'll ever use them in a verbal battle, but he does know what he's talking about. However, I do disagree with Rooster's comments about XMP and other points he made.
     
  9. TossMonkey

    TossMonkey brown bread?

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    I think for rooster the senility has finally set in. And the f word is my new favourite member. Kudos my friend on that wonderful first post. :)
     
  10. the_f_word

    the_f_word New Member

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    Sorry about that, I just had to release a bit of flame after reading his................. opinion
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2004
  11. TossMonkey

    TossMonkey brown bread?

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    Although I don't agree with you stating all UT had going for it was graphics (assault was revolutionary imo), I really understand why you are frustrated by him calling Quake3 the golden age of gaming when it's the same game we've been playing since doom.

    XMP isn't daikatana by a long shot. I could make indepth comments and such about daikatana's metallic frogs, terrible AI and appallingly unoptimised graphics, and how XMP breathes fresh air into the life of the Unreal franchise but I think I will just keep my post short.
     
  12. MachDelta

    MachDelta Haphazard Nobody

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    The only thing i'd like to rebutt to is Roosters comment on the "ceiling skill", which he claims is very low. I disagree. There is a big difference between newbs and vets IMO. For one, movement skills are critical. Dodging, Dodge Jetting, Wall Dodging, Angle Jumps... they make a huge difference. I know that if I dueled with myself, between when I first started XMP and now, I would soundly kick my own ass :p. I can get to places, leap over things, and take shortcuts that I couldn't before. I also understand the weapons/turrets/vehicles strengths and weaknesses. Ballance between the classes. I've seen the math behind weapon damages, shields, and vehicles. I understand the value of energy, and how to conserve it. I know maps like the back of my hand - where I can go and what tricks I can pull.
    The sheer amount of extra content in XMP alone serves to widen the gap between sux0r and rox0r. There really is a lot to understand when you get into things. It may not be as straightforward as "I have l33t aim", but experience does make a big difference in XMP as well as UT/03.
     
  13. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Rooster, don't forget... you can't rightly compare XMP to any fully developed, fully funded game. Remember, XMP was created mostly in the developers' free time.

    While Unreal 2 was a major disappointment for me, I see now that XMP would have been a brilliant addition to the game. It would definitely have given it much more value and much higher review scores. It's too bad Legend weren't allowed to focus in on XMP to compliment U2... right out of the box.

    Whatever happened to releasing games... when they're done? :eek:

    ggs Atari.
     
  14. NeoNite

    NeoNite Worst hack fraud ever

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    TROLL ALERT.



    Sigh. What a first post. So completely... worthless :-/ Shame you couldn't have chosen your words better.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Rooster

    Sorry to say this, but Rooster.. you appear to have absolutely no idea at all.. sure you may have been around for years or whatever and think you know what you're talking about.. but to say q3 and ut is the golden age of gaming is laughable.. not only that, but you say XMP plays like doom? what kind of crazy bull**** is that? you say that skill between noobs and vets inb XMP is indistinguishable? what damn game are you playing?!? and comparing it to daikatana is just plain stupidity!!

    were you actually playing the same game? .. far out, talk about clueless
     
  16. Rooster

    Rooster Local Legend

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    Thanks Proph. Usually Proph and I see eye to eye on most things. We can respect each other's opinions even though we disagree.

    F_word, as your comments are utterly without logic or reason, I'll just ignore you and your caustic comments, and you should thank me for it. I've been around for a very long time, and yes, I'm still an Administrator (not just a moderator) here. I have never used my powers to fight my fights. But most people know better than to attack my character. I'll chalk yours up to ignorance and stupidity... Luckily, both are curable. Good luck with that.

    3 letters will counteract your entire post:

    CTF

    -------------------------------------------

    Btw, most people are looking at the single player aspect of this... which if you compare Unreal II to the good single player games out there, this is still at the bottom of the heap (yeah, I played it through a few levels.. and was BORED off my butt).

    Games that ROCK in single player mode:
    Splinter Cell
    Max Payne 2 (never played 1)
    Oni
    Planescape Torment
    Need for Speed: Underground
    Command & Conquer Generals
    Railroad Tycoon (2 & 3)
    Tropico (1 & 2)
    Civilization (2 & 3)

    Games that SUCK in single player mode:
    Unreal II
    Quake (1,2,3)
    Unreal Tournament
    Unreal Tournament 2003
    Battlefield 1942
    C&C Tiberian Dawn (part 2?)

    Being around the gaming industry since before most of you were born, I do happen to know what makes a game good, and what doesn't. If you don't like it, perhaps in a few years you'll understand.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    nah, you're just silly
     
  18. the_f_word

    the_f_word New Member

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    Hah, I did not attack your character I attacked your opinion. Which from reading your posts is severely flawed, and thus I flamed you. I'm sorry, but it really seems like you have no idea what you are talking about judging by the comparisons you made.

    When I read what you were saying it upset me because I for one appreciate the thankless effort that has been put into XMP, and see that it is a matter of circumstances which hold such a wonderful mod back rather than any reasons you propose. As has been said, if XMP had been packaged with U2 on release I believe the game would have seen much greater success. There are plenty of other scenarios where XMP could have done exceedingly well, and still could but with the lack of funding and management direction we probably won't get to see that ever become a reality.

    CTF counteracts my entire post? excuse me but CTF had been done along time before those two titles emerged, my god boy saying things as ridiculous as that is almost enough for me to start flaming again. If you have truly been around for as long as prophetus says, you would know that.

    I am not a troll, I just get upset when people show complete disrespect for an excellent game and its creators when they have been seemingly shafted by atari.
     
  19. QAPete

    QAPete Chief Muckety Muck

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    Well, I'm 42, been playing games since the Z80 chip days, and I can tell 'ya that age alone doesn't give us any 'Word of Truth' powers when it comes to recognizing superior games, Rooster. ;) Everyone has their own opinion, something they look for in a game that makes it fun, and that's fine.

    I despised Splinter Cell, enjoyed (for the short time that it allowed me to) Unreal II SP, cannot stomach virtually any realism-based game, and find games that are more open-ended to be vastly more enjoyable than anything scripted. Some of my views go against the majority, and that's ok too. Because, in the end, we all play the games we like to play.

    The first few times I played XMP, I felt that the HUD wasn't all it could be, it wasn't nearly as intuitive as it could be and I pretty much got pwned. However, I noticed that I was playing it online, quite a bit. Other than a recent 1 hour FragBU, I haven't played UT2003 online for well over a year. To me, a regular person has absolutely no chance to play UT2003 competitively, as the skill scale is virtually straight-up vertical. In a game like XMP, players can grow into the game, without the constant frustration associated with rapid-fire frags and flag captures.

    There's more to do in XMP as well, from setting up reasonable defenses, to using vehicles to your advantage, to securing and fortifying deploy points and energy sources. Even with its flaws, I find it to be a much more satisfying online experience, and even if XMP just fills a void in my online gaming life, it's done that very well, and I'm thankful for Scott, Aaron and the guys from Legend for putting in the time.

    Just my old fart opinion,

    Pete
    -BeyondUnreal
     
  20. FluXs

    FluXs old skool

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    all i can say is:


    OH FOR F**K SAKE!


    :mad: :mad:

    Atari Person 1: [​IMG] "Hmm need some ££ who can we fire?"

    Atari Person 2: [​IMG] "I know! Lets close down Legend, i never liked return to nali world anyway"


    Well at least their logo will live forever in my avator
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2004

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