Will Epic guarantee the elimination of cheating in 2k7?

[edhe]

.......and your point?........ besides your head!

How can anything be taken seriously from a country that wears skirts?

Regarding IG: approximately 3000+ EU players competing, and at one time in the not so distant past 500+ from the Americas.

As this thread matures you will see a the question evolve from:

Will Epic guarantee the elimination of cheating in 2k7?

To

What can be done to increase security for UT competitive play for 1 mode and 1 setting?

If we all try to remain positive I think something good will come from this discussion.

A country that wears skirts?
".......and your point?........ besides your head!"

You really are pretending to be a CEO yeah? Or am i forgetting you're business of murder where stupidity is inherent.

"As this thread matures" from posting the same question 11 times to which the answer is an obvious no...even pygmes would've figured that one out.

UBL, your title isn't associated with Acme perchance?

p.s. i hadn't noticed this post until sel said something

 

[EL BOURIKO]

A country that wears skirts?
".......and your point?........ besides your head!"

this was some real weird point!!!


France supports Scotland and all its kilts

 

[Ghost3021]

I do believe racism is grounds for banning, unless I am much mistaken. Lets get back on topic here, shall we? Or better yet, lock this thread.

/me loads a flare gun to signal the supa adminz

 

[edhe]

It's hardly racism, it's a comment directed at the national dress.

Anyway, the topic is void.

 

[JaFO]

There is one 100% perfect way of preventing anyone from cheating in UT2k7 :




by not publishing it at all.

Seriously. A statement by Epic/Midway like '100% cheat-proof' (or something to that effect) will only serve as a challenge for the *beeps*

 

[Ghost3021]

Well i know a dude that writes hax for ut2k4, he will go unamed, he says he does it for the fun. what jafo said, is only right. cheating and writing cheats will only become more fun for the dudes that write them if you make it harder. my point? have a special server or 2 that are completely dedicated to cheaters, with NO anti cheats, so that when someone gets teh urge to cheat, they can just go there and burn it off against other players...hey that may not be a bad gametype idea...

 

[utw-Mephisto]

Most people forget that the program has such easy to code to be able to create mods. When the program is save like a safe and hard-coded .. well .. harder to cheat for sure, but no mods at all anymore I guess

 

[utw-Mephisto]

Well i know a dude that writes hax for ut2k4, he will go unamed, he says he does it for the fun. what jafo said, is only right. cheating and writing cheats will only become more fun for the dudes that write them if you make it harder. my point? have a special server or 2 that are completely dedicated to cheaters, with NO anti cheats, so that when someone gets teh urge to cheat, they can just go there and burn it off against other players...hey that may not be a bad gametype idea...

I had once a cheating server .. it even was called [NO-UTAN]Cheataz welcome !

But soon I got an email from officials which quoted the manual that Epic does not support that .. which is fair enough ...

 

[Shambler[sixpack]]

A long but interesting read (I've just found this thread and read it from start to end) and I'm glad that (for the most part) it's been discussed with some level of maturity. *remembers similar posts at atari forums*


Personally I can't see Epic making a continued commitment to developing protections for future games but I really hope that they will at least give greater support for the development of community based protections.

As was pointed out earlier the cheat protection in UT2k4 is suffering because of the lack of native cheat protection (i.e. protection written at the same level of the engine code, NOT confined to UScript), in UT1 this is not a problem because the source code headers have been publically released....this means UT1 currently has WAAAYYYY better cheat protection than UT2k4.
Granted, this gives the cheat developers an easier time in making the cheats but at least it allows the anti-cheat developers to tackle the cheats on the same level....it has been mentioned that the cheat developers in UT2k4 simply create their own source headers (and ignore the legal implications of doing so) while the protection developers are confined to UnrealScript, which is very restrictive as far as detecting cheats goes.
Of course, they wont release public source for the next UT but they should definetly approve limited source access to a small group of trusted developers from the community. (similar to UTPG)


Ideally there would be a protection that is independant of the current patch (i.e. is in its own package and doesn't break net compatability), is written in C++ (so as not to be as inflexible as UScript protections), would have community support (so whenever Epic stops supporting it an appropriate group of people could continue it) and would be easy to update in-game. (if they did this with patches net-compatability issues would disappear right? After all, you can download all sorts of custom-content automaticly when joining a server..why not the patches)

That's not very hard to realise...

 

[thatcher]

A long but interesting read (I've just found this thread and read it from start to end) and I'm glad that (for the most part) it's been discussed with some level of maturity.

I personally think the thread has provoked some generally thoughtful discussion. I don't understand why anybody would say "end of discussion" or "lock the thread". If you don't want to be part of the discussion, I don't think anybody is being forced to take part in it.

There has been criticism of Epic and pro-Epic zealots might not like to hear it all - but it is fairly constructive, I think.

in UT1 [...] the source code headers have been publically released....this means UT1 currently has WAAAYYYY better cheat protection than UT2k4.
Granted, this gives the cheat developers an easier time in making the cheats but at least it allows the anti-cheat developers to tackle the cheats on the same level.
[...]
Of course, they wont release public source for the next UT but they should definetly approve limited source access to a small group of trusted developers from the community.

Outstanding point.

It has been said in this thread that Epic has left it to the community to do a better job than they managed to do with regard securing their software. Except its not exactly the entire "community" but only a handful of individuals who actually did anything practical. Would it really take so many resources to bring those individuals into the loop? Especially if it turns out that a cheater-free game has a positive influence on sales.

*note* I said "cheater-free" not "cheat-free". I am willing to accept all the points about how difficult it is to secure the game - but if anybody who tried to exploit a hole got caught and locked out, we'd be approaching the same practical effect of a secured game.

 

[Xaero_UT]

(this is what happened generally, im not big on the tech side of computers)

the clan i used to be in kAoS, had a player named ekynox, this player was an alright guy..one day, we heard from forums and players, that a person had hacked on a ctf server, with an aimbot..

the name on this player kAoS.2k, another player in our clan.

well accusations and blaming, and shouts of haxors could be heard from every direction, meanwhile 2k, protesting his innocence..

gammo, our leader, then began a hunt, for the alleged 2k's ip, for what was going on, so after a detailed search, gammo displayed his findings, about 6 pages long, which showed some of 2k's ip, which was im melbourne, and the alleged 2k, which was in queensland, so while we know it wasnt 2k, who was the aliaser?

during the search DDDooGGG from oceaniaut.com gave us an ip for ekynox, who we had suspected, because we were having problems with him, which did not match the alleged ip, however on our own server another ip belonging to ekynox matched the alleged ip, ekynox had 2 versions of ut, ekynox had gone on jsg server with an aimbot hacking as 2k, he was kicked from kaos, disgraced, and after giving the info to epic games, they have globally banned both his ip's, while this does not stop him from playing the game online, he could get another internet connection, be from somewhere else, etc, epic did what they could

i hate cheaters, and think if u can't learn to play the game properly, dont play it at all, and dont be a cheating, hacking weakass.

cheers

 

[Ghost3021]

Cheeters = Newbs with h4x.
or
Cheeters = Dudes that write the hax that r 'testing'

whatever. it crap and there no REAL way to stop it. its cheating after all! getting rid of cheeters would be like getting rid of rapers...you just cant do it all the way. you can take precautions, but like for mountainclimbing peoples mountains exhist to climb, games exhist to h4xers to be hacked. so will epic guarantee no cheating? there is no way to guarantee that. so no they probably wont.

 

[SealClubber]

Fact: No game can guarentee the elimination of cheating in it!



What I just said is all that needs to be said about this subject. End of discussion.

This guy's gotta point!

 

[kafros]

Fact: No game can guarentee the elimination of cheating in it!



What I just said is all that needs to be said about this subject. End of discussion.

You are completely wrong. There are games in China that are cheat-free and this is how they do it:

If you are accused of cheating you are taken to the Tien-amen square and shot dead. You are also banned from playing the game (which is a bit far fetched IMO)

If they later find out they were wrong and you did not cheat, they re-allow you to play the game.

EPIC is planning on releasing this as a mutator.

 

[Xelios]

Maybe they can get an system that checks ut files before it starts up so that none of them have any hacking traces in them so that the hacks are deleted before the game starts?

 

[SealClubber]

You are completely wrong. There are games in China that are cheat-free and this is how they do it:

If you are accused of cheating you are taken to the Tien-amen square and shot dead. You are also banned from playing the game (which is a bit far fetched IMO)

If they later find out they were wrong and you did not cheat, they re-allow you to play the game.

EPIC is planning on releasing this as a mutator.

Then Mr. T says: "I pity the fool who lives in China!"

 

[Wormbo]

Now here's a thought: let a few selected UT moders review the UT2007 UnrealScript code to check it for potential exploits and (more importantly) for modability prior to release.

 

[-AEnubis-]

If they guys who are making the cheat protection aren't basically trying to make cheats for the game, then there is your problem.

Of course you should be looking for exploits. For the same reason the FBI hires hackers, and forgers, and what not. If you can't beat them, join them. Then beat them with what you learn of them.

 

[BITE_ME]

For some reason people love to cheat in games. So just let them do it. Make it very easy for them to cheat. Heck give them the tools to cheat.
Them you ban their friggen ass's from all the "Cheat protected" servers.
O. and you kick them in the balls too.

 

[Ghost3021]

For some reason people love to cheat in games. So just let them do it. Make it very easy for them to cheat. Heck give them the tools to cheat.
Them you ban their friggen ass's from all the "Cheat protected" servers.
O. and you kick them in the balls too.

that works too