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Why the low UT3 adoption?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by TehLlama, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    That's exactly the point I was making before. Nobody wants to play the game the way Epic made it, they want it made for them.
     
  2. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Yeah, no, Trolling is saying something you know will offend/anger other posters, just for the sake of making them angry and getting a cheap laugh out of it.
    Trolls will often say things they don't actually mean, just because they know it will provoke a response, and they find that funny.
    Note that Trolling lies in the intent, you can say something controversial that you actually mean, and not be a Troll, it's only when you say controversial things just to get a rise out of other people you are Trolling.

    Flaming is just another word for "ad hominem" or a "personal attack", no less and no more.


    This has been my dry and joyless post for today, enjoy.
     
  3. Northrawn

    Northrawn New Member

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    It is not so much that I demand an adjusted gametype for my likings. If I want my ONS I still have 2 servers with regualrs who know the game (and a few demoservers if I need to boost my ego ;) ).
    I only disliked the statemant that the orb is good made a fact.
     
  4. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    I Like UT3, unfortunately my good computer is broken and the truth of it is it's only been the last six months that I have even had a big enough computer to play it, what I am saying is you have to be in a certain tax bracket to even ba able to afford to play, un like UT2004 were it played on windows 98/linux right from the start. I think a large player base was excused simply because of that, in my opinion I think they could have implemented a dumb down of the graphics to accommodate less fortunate players but they chose not to.

    I might be wrong but I think it's (UT3) low acceptance can all be traced back to economical reasons across the spectrum.

    For me, when I am doing something that others only wish they could do it bothers me.

    And I forgive you fuzz, we are all frustrated here I think for one reason or another, I downloaded your map pack along time ago and the fact you put that together for the unreal community shows something.

    http://fuzz2k7.webs.com/

    Shane
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  5. xMurphyx

    xMurphyx New Member

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    Hm. I liked the orb. It takes away from the organized, strategic ONS gameplay a bit but the excitement and speed it adds is worth it, in my opinion. It could have been implemented better, I suppose. Bots could handle it better, for example.
    It can be disabled though, can't it? There is a No Orb mutator.

    Funny, how people always claim UT should be all about options and customizing, but in the end everyone just bitches about the default gameplay.;)
     
  6. Bi()ha2arD

    Bi()ha2arD Toxic!

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    That was probably not an option because UT3 was amongst other things a way to show off the new Engine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  7. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    I don't know, as I am not a programmer, I do know that a computer does what ever you tell it to. I also know that Microsoft offers emulators for there windows programs free for download on there site for developers to use as a cross platform for software production from windows 98 and up.

    Shane
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  8. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  9. DannyMeister

    DannyMeister UT3 Jailbreak Coder

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    Only one guy (Beef_Chow_Meine) joined me in UT3 tonight because the regs in my clan were busy setting up a new ut2004 server. I fragged this guy once, he said something along the lines of "My connection is bad or something, but I can say one thing for sure. You are a ****ing newb!" and then he left. Aren't multiplayer games great!
     
  10. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    When this hits main stream gaming games will be changed for ever.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40L3SGmcPDQ

    Can you imagine UT3 or any other fps played with this thing?

    Shane
     
  11. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    These things have been around for about two decades now - there was even one built to work with the SNES. You can buy them retail for about $150.
     
  12. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    Since you like to quote people without context and make assumptions.

    My opinion is that personal attacks are flaming. Another opinion of mine is saying that a game is bad, when others might like it, is trolling.

    You are also saying that players that lack UT3 skills knows nothing of QL skills. Say that to a QL player and you will hear some trash talk for sure. Expressing yourself in that way is also double standard.

    Claiming that you are allowed to criticize other player's skills only when you are better than them is yet again double standard.

    Moderating your own posts also causes lack of objectivity. Instigating arguments and arbitrating opposition, as an ad hominem strategy to discredit, is malpractice.

    Saying that my "rule-breaking attempts are pathetic" (clearly because I'm innocent) and boasting me to be more offensive, is entrapment.

    BioHazard is known to be a good player, most likely better at UT3 than many other games. He can probably fend for himself. I would not say that to a player without a decent post count and a slick profile. Having him say that he is good at QL is likely to be even more humiliating with regard to his prior statement.

    The spirit of a rule is supposed to be common sense. When a rule doesn't make sense it's generally not a very good rule.

    Never mind the ethics, here comes the real deal.

    To link this all to low UT3 adoption, we have this situation because Epic simply don't listen to critic. Their understanding only goes so far to say that they are done with their product and see no profit in satisfying customers' need any further. Add to that, everyone is afraid to speak their mind near them, because they instantly ban players they brand as trolls.

    The ideal is to be as offensive as possible without breaking the rules and at the end of the day be adored by everyone. That is the ultimate cool trash talking. Too bad that state only exists in pure fantasy.
     
  13. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    The general meaning of words is not really subject to personal opinion. Language is defined by a group of people. If you want to communicate with a group that uses a certain language you better use the same language.
    • Urban Dictionary: "flame" - "To insult someone electronically, or otherwise. Sometimes to be a group insult."
    • Urban Dictionary: "troll" - "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument"
    Note that flames are not necessarily personal attacks, but also more general insults in a futile attempt to make a point.
    Trolling doesn't have to include any kind of negative statements at all. You could also troll simply by over-exaggerating the positive sides of a subject in annoying way. Repeatedly stating the obvious can also be perceived as trolling because it can get annoying.
     
  14. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    My opinion is the one that counts! Other people can't express their opinions because people might disagree with them!
     
  15. Benfica

    Benfica European Redneck

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    I'm not going so far as insulting the gaming community I belong to, but I can't leave Fuzz alone here either.

    What the hell are we first and foremost, UT fans or PC gamers? If someone is only a PC gamer, his/her views are mostly for the benefit of generic PC gaming. They may improve a future UT, make it viable and successful. But then again some may not.

    I came to this conclusion when I saw "UT fans" that react to anti-PC comments for years now, said it was okayish that UT was postponed for years. This annoyed me much more than the anti-PC comment I quoted (forget for a moment that Fuzz implied gamers).

    It's not fine!

    I'm with you guys on the annoyance that console requirements dumbed down the PC release. However I don't agree much with the PC vs console flamewars or the tone of some comments regarding console gamers. Their platform ended up screwing UT3, but they are still welcome. It's not their fault that they have to decide between an high-end PC or pay for life expenses. I've said it before and keep insisting: any guy that ditches other game and goes somewhere saying how UT3 rocks is a new fan. It doesn't matter if he was previously playing Halo3, CS:S or Final Fantasy.

    Then the fact that custom content is now possible on the PS3 changes a few things. UT3 mods on the PS3 theoretically provide a much larger audience to content creators, even if it's up to them to understand if it's worthwhile the hassle and to take risk of blindly cooking the content. But the possibility is there. It may improve their future, their career.

    Do you want to know how to tell if someone feels like an UT fan or a PC gamer? It's who you bash and complain against. I don't like the fact that PC is hurting vs console, but I'm not (yet) enfuriated about it. What I unconsciently hate are the games that compete with UT like Quack, the snail pace or brown shooters, L4D, TF2, or others. Even if they are "good". Even if I had a few hours of fun with L4D. But unlike "PC gamers" I don't feel the need to e.g. praise Valve and it's fat ugly CEO because they are helping a lot with PC gaming. In fact it's the opposite because they are Epic and UT competitors and such games and companies divert potential UT3 gamers.

    So please, think twice if you feel extremely annoyed by Fuzz remark
     
  16. brold9999

    brold9999 New Member

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    He's not saying that making the game run on less powerful machines wouldn't be possible. Only that a really showy game sells more licences. If a potential client only sees the game in a "basic graphics" mode, they may get the impression that UE3 is less capable graphically compared to other engines.
     
  17. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    I see, I wasn't thinking of that side of it, I have run a custom weld and blacksmith shop and advertised on ebay. I didn't get any sells at first for a couple months. I decided to paint the items and put flashy backgrounds in the pictures I uploaded and sells started poring in.

    I don't know if that's a complement to the human race but your right it is true. How ever it is still true they did cut some potential buyers out of the game.

    "I guess I am still butt hurt over that whole side of it"

    Shane
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  18. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    You know, I was sitting here thinking again and was wondering with a forum like this you would think there would be a section that had links to all the UT games "server banners/IP addresses" available on the internet?

    You got game?

    Shane
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  19. lucifur

    lucifur 68.232.183.18:7777 Redeemer/Nali Server

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    Yes if you look me up in the ut stats "lucifur" it is me I haven't played much online (non private server) but have been playing ut2004 almost since it came out, my preferred weapon is the shield gun, i loose a lot but i find it challenging to fight for a close in shot.

    last time I looked there was another guy with the same handle but my stats are shield gun.

    Shane
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  20. Benfica

    Benfica European Redneck

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    I just read most of the thread. What came to mind is considering what the potential UT3 players are doing now. The ones that are NOT here to say what they really think about UT3. I only can talk mostly about UT2004 and clumsy UT3 newbies, but we could consider who could come from other genres, Quackers, newbies that are very skilled fps gamers, Steam'ers and Valve fanbase, etc... I dunno, I'm not much into current generic gaming myself

    Regarding UT2004 experienced people: they sticked with ONS or are playing TAM, Freon and similar crap.

    By looking at game-monitor, I can see that the UT2004 newbies are playing on 3 kinds of servers:
    - Large player count and spammy ONS servers
    - Invasion
    - Sniper

    A newbie can find an enjoyble and friendly game on any of them. Either can't screw up much or draw attention; the game is cooperative where the team doesn't turn against itself; or where everyone can manage a few frags without feeling too vulnerable.

    "Large player count and spammy ONS servers". Quite often, people only get looked down upon at the end of the game due to low score. Contrast with orbfare where the newbie is singled-out. It's desolating to grab an orb, fail and be called an idiot again and again. It goes against human nature to get crap for doing your best.

    About what invasion provides: UT3 lacks a truely cooperative game mode. No, the campaign doesn't matter with that storyline and the fact that people have to open ports on the router. There's UT2004-invasion or L4D for cooperative and solidary gameplay

    Sniper, well, I'm not sure here. But I found out that some UT3 noobs take cover and try to snipe to get frags, because they're dead meat out in the open. They're just too slow.

    Oh, and about the chance of getting a frag on UT2004 vs UT3. The ones that say that UT2004 is much worse because people get screwed 30-0 while they have a chance on UT3, are just missing the point. The problem for a newbie is not how much he kills, but it's for how long he survives. A newbie doesn't get interested on a game, based on immediate results, but on hope. In UT3, frustration and desolation comes sooner than the sense of progression and small achievments. There's not the will, determination and fury to get better. Meanwhile bunny hoping, the shield gun, the cooperative invasion, the large player count, etc... contribute to make them want to come back for more. btw, bunny hoping gives the illusion of freedom, grounded movement makes them feel like an hopeless sitting duck. A newbie forgets about double-jump, can't reach worth crap with a single, and doesn't even know about dodge jump.

    The UT community didn't grow because it alienating the previous members and by being unreachable by potential new ones. Regardless of being veterans, skilled (*hides* :p) and very dedicated, when looking at numbers each of us only add up 1. It doesn't matter if the one that doesn't like the game is me, you or him. Oh, and it really annoys me that globally the community complains about and alienates newbies, UT2004 or console people. Who's left with the potencial to prevent it from shrinking??? The self-centered pros that left for greener games or just grew up and got a job? Or the UT99.org people that are still playing the best game ever because they can?

    About Gamespy and the consolized UI. I tend to agree that the percentage of players that avoided the game is significant, but do you really think they are the reasons why the silent majority leave a game after getting the UI out of the way? Those are the ones that never saw otherwise or have such annoyances as the least of their problems.
     

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