What would revive the UT franchise?

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KillerSkaarj

Art for swans is dope!
Jan 24, 2008
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Hey everyone! I have a really great idea! Let's rename the site to "BeyondUnreal (Except for UT3)!" And let's also delete this forum because it's soooooo obvious UT3 is dead.

Seriously, it's like all people want to do now is complain that the game sucks. Since it looks like no one on BU likes UT3 any more, then I suggest you delete this forum from the Unreal-Engine games section. I'm not kidding. Apparently, according to you guys, the servers are empty, the netcode is terrible (there's no way it's worse than the old U1 netcode), the graphics are bland (Allow me to refer you to my sig), the gameplay sucks ass, and the weapons look terrible.

I'm surprised you people didn't pawn the damn game already.

That aside, I've been reading through some of the posts that I hadn't read, and it seems some people suggest that the Epic try something other than what was already tried and true for UT. They've already done this once before with UC2. I stopped playing UC2 simply because there's nothing new about the game. I've already played all the maps and I simply got bored of the Tournament portion (this time, the Tournament was a mode where each character has their own ladder for playing through).

Perhaps if they revamped UC2 (removing the Mortal Kombat coprights, of course), added more maps, characters, and gametypes, and then ported it to the PC, it would offset the damage that UT3 apparently caused and bring players back to the Unreal series.

Or they could try something else. UC2 was the product of both Midway and Epic. They both essentially took their respective flagship franchises and merged them together, so it was almost half Unreal and half Mortal Kombat.

Perhaps if Epic tried the same thing but for the PC, it would become immensely popular. Merge a seemingly completely different genre with the game. Perhaps they could merge it with a Tony Hawk-style game. Keep the hoverboard, but make it usable in all gametypes, and allow players to shoot while on it. And some maps could have ramps, half-pipes, etc. and you would be able to do tricks on them. And one of the maps could be a DM remake of ONS-Tricky.

Then they could change "Frags" to "points," and award extra points for killing someone while pulling off multiple tricks in a row. Can you imagine flying off a ramp, doing a bunch of intricate flips and spins while at the same time blowing some guy to bits with a shock combo? That would be AWESOME!

And they wouldn't have to call the game UT4. Hell, make it another branch off from the main series. Name it something like Unreal Showdown. This particular idea will definitely revive at least this particular side of the Unreal series (the DM side, not the campaign side)

If that's too stupid of an idea, then they could do this instead. Make it a persistent open-world shooter like Far Cry 2 (STALKER is open world, but not 100% persistent), but don't try to incorporate the elements of realism. It could essentially be UT with one GIANT Warfare map.

Keep the factions of UT3, and have them occasionally go to war with each other. Let the player choose which faction he wants to be a part of over the course of the game. Each faction could have vehicles and weapons specific to them, e.g. Iron Guard only has Hellbenders and Shock Rifles, Thunder Crash could have Scorpions and Flakcannons, the Necris could have a variety of Necris vehicles (besides Darkwalker) and the BioRifle, etc. etc. The factions could also have their own bases, and capturing a faction's base would give your team access to their specific weapons and vehicles.

Each Faction could start out with two or three bases, and each of the bases and the surrounding area would essentially be a one-sided WAR or ONS match. Capping the nodes and taking out the core will bring the base under the winning faction's control, thus giving access to the weapons and vehicles within.

And you could even have neutral bases that, when captured, give special vehicles that the other factions don't have, like Goliaths, Darkwalkers, and Leviathans. Like I said, it's basically an over-glorified Warfare map.

The two ideas above, IMO, would probably completely revive the series and offset the damage UT3 inflicted. If done right, of course.
 
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Leo(T.C.K.)

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
May 14, 2006
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The Unreal netcode doesn't suck. In fact in the latest patches it is far better than UT netcode was, which ridiculously relied on some clientside functions and other things which made odd behavior online, even with pawns seeing through movers and that explosions go through them online hurting anyone behind too. Explains why a lot of maps ditched any doors and stuff. But in coop it is really annoying.

But both are still better than the quake2 netcode, the hit detection is all messed up in that game(yet they always claimed how better it was than Unreal) and when you aim fast and fire rocket it will fire it to position where your crosshair was few seconds ago. Really smart...
That never happened in Unreal.
 
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KillerSkaarj

Art for swans is dope!
Jan 24, 2008
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The Unreal netcode doesn't suck. In fact in the latest patches it is far better than UT netcode was, which ridiculously relied on some clientside functions and other things which made odd behavior online, even with pawns seeing through movers and that explosions go through them online hurting anyone behind too. Explains why a lot of maps ditched any doors and stuff. But in coop it is really annoying

I said OLD netcode, foo. The really old, pre-224 nightmare. I know 227's netcode is better (everything's better with 227 :D)
 

Leo(T.C.K.)

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
May 14, 2006
4,794
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More like pre 220 you mean. But even that wasn't too bad if it was ran right. But yeah. And about latest patches I talked about the latest official patches even. The netcode is not bad in them.
 

Benfica

European Redneck
Feb 6, 2006
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brdempsey69 said:
And ruin what? I've explained it to you already that people make up their own minds about things.
You make it sound like there are people out there that are empty, mindless specters, that are always going to follow my lead. That is a bunch of baloney. I supported UT3 for a time until I realized that what was broken was never going to be fixed.
Once that realization came about, I could no longer rightfully recommend the game to anyone. Why should I withhold the truth from anyone? Look carefully at what Lostsoul posted to me to get an idea that I'm not alone.
Ok, I admit. I can't compete with the way you manage to twist people's words, what they mean and intend to say. So that becomes clear to you, any human being tends to take what looks credible and move on, because they have better things to do than waste their finite lifes to cross-reference and validate the crap that some idiots like you spit out!

I had to reply to this part for the respect of others. You can go on with your rhetoric and talent for insults. I'll look them up on UrbanDictionary when I'm bored.

Palhaço do caralho
 

WedgeBob

XSI Mod Tool User
Nov 12, 2008
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Cleveland, OH, USA
Well, just so long as you have the Titan Pack and the latest May 2009 patches installed, you probably may do a little better with UT3 than if you just ran vanilla UT3 right out of the box off a DVD-ROM. IIRC, didn't Steam's UT3 Black Edition already have all these addons already added to it? Haven't noticed anything about that one yet.
 

brdempsey69

Original UT Owns !!
Jun 19, 2003
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Ok, I admit. I can't compete with the way you manage to twist people's words, what they mean and intend to say. So that becomes clear to you, any human being tends to take what looks credible and move on, because they have better things to do than waste their finite lifes to cross-reference and validate the crap that some idiots like you spit out!

I had to reply to this part for the respect of others. You can go on with your rhetoric and talent for insults. I'll look them up on UrbanDictionary when I'm bored.

Palhaço do caralho

Benfica, this response sounds like nothing more than sour grapes & if you look, people here are mocking you -- one even asking you if you get high before you post your responses. Myself, I'm beginning to wonder if you have LSD suppositories down to an art form or something. You must be tripping on something. Hardly anything you have said has made much sense at all. Who's the real idiot here?

Nobody has twisted any words, you simply are not being told what you want to hear & you are all puked out about it. Same as my first response to you over at the official forums. You tried telling everybody something to the effect that UT3 came out the way it did because of lobbying by people. I pointed out that wasn't the case based on the CGW article that announced UT3 & you got all puked out about it & went way off the beaten path & posted a bunch of responses that, as I said before, made about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

Please tell everybody, who was it that lobbied for the Assault & Bombing Run game modes to be excluded from UT3? Who lobbied for the Skaarj characters to be removed and the Krall put in? Who lobbied for the Necris vehicles to be put into the game ( don't get me wrong -- they were a nice addition)? Who lobbied for the stinking GameSpy login crap that everyone has an endless hatred for? Who lobbied for the single player part of UT3 to be some story line instead of a Tournament ladder like previous UT's?

And there's more, but the answer is the same --NOBODY !!. It was Epic's decision & that was that. Get it through your head that the final say was Epic's.

I got to tell you bluntly, you're making yourself look stupid . You are not winning any arguments & I don't speak Spanish so the phrase "Palhaço do caralho" doesn't mean anything & all I have to do is consider the source --YOU -- and it becomes laughable.

So do yourself a favor & GET LOST.
 
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Sir_Brizz

Administrator
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Feb 3, 2000
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What? The fact that he didn't know it was Portuguese just proves the point he was making there...
 

UBerserker

old EPIC GAMES
Jan 20, 2008
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I really don't know what's up here in this ****ty thread that needs a lock but brdempsey has been always a nice guy, and never been that bad against UT3 - unlike another certain user who likes doing it all the time.
 

brdempsey69

Original UT Owns !!
Jun 19, 2003
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I really don't know what's up here in this ****ty thread that needs a lock but brdempsey has been always a nice guy, and never been that bad against UT3 - unlike another certain user who likes doing it all the time.

Exactly, I'm NOT against anyone who prefers UT3 as their favorite game of the UT series. It's a matter of personal taste. I even bought a copy of UT3 for a friend & played several LAN games with him. One day, out of the blue, he told me he didn't want to play UT3 anymore because of certain annoying bugs in the game.

To me, it's disheartening to see where & what the UT series has evolved into over the course of time. When you look at this thread title, it does lead to the obvious question: How the hell did everything that was once so good, get so bad?
 
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WedgeBob

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Nov 12, 2008
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I'm trying to like UT3 as much equally as I do UT2004 myself, but I don't necessarily like one version of UT more than another, all three versions (well, 3 1/2, considering that UT2004's a rebundled UT2003 with a few more bells and whistles) have their own pros and cons, and all are about equal. Part of me wants to stay allied to the original UT, but I know that we all have to get with the times. Even tho there are plenty of people that may have stuck with UT2004 that didn't feel that UT3 was that much of an upgrade, I was originally thinking that, but now that I see that UT3 is actually going more back to the original UT roots, I'm a bit more understanding about it.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
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I'm trying to like UT3 as much equally as I do UT2004 myself, but I don't necessarily like one version of UT more than another, all three versions (well, 3 1/2, considering that UT2004's a rebundled UT2003 with a few more bells and whistles) have their own pros and cons, and all are about equal. Part of me wants to stay allied to the original UT, but I know that we all have to get with the times. Even tho there are plenty of people that may have stuck with UT2004 that didn't feel that UT3 was that much of an upgrade, I was originally thinking that, but now that I see that UT3 is actually going more back to the original UT roots, I'm a bit more understanding about it.

That's basically what I think as well. All Unreals, all UTs are good, it's just a matter of taste. No need to revive anything that isn't dead yet. If UT3 was released with all the patching we have now, online player counts would be better, too, and there's no point in looking back.
 

WedgeBob

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Nov 12, 2008
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Well, as much better as the AI is in UT3 over the other versions, it's almost as good to do offline play in UT3 as it would be playing Classic UT or UT2004 online. Epic may not have improved online gameplay with UT3, but they did, however, manage to make the bot AI far better this time, almost as good as the original UT's bots were. UT2004's bots were a little too easy-going, and made you do all the work.
 

brdempsey69

Original UT Owns !!
Jun 19, 2003
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That's basically what I think as well. All Unreals, all UTs are good, it's just a matter of taste. No need to revive anything that isn't dead yet. If UT3 was released with all the patching we have now, online player counts would be better, too, and there's no point in looking back.

Agreed, it is hard to dispute what you are saying, even though I am guilty of doing what you said -- looking back.

You are right, it isn't dead. To me, it does seem quite significantly diminished from what it once was, however.

I do like all UT's to a point, so I do play them all.

UT3 does have some one-of-a-kind type maps, the likes of which we hadn't seen in any previous UT's. The best example I can think of is VCTF-Sandstorm.
 

Benfica

European Redneck
Feb 6, 2006
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brdempsey69, I don't care to argue with you. Unlike the true fans, you're just a waste of time, web browser disk space and screen clutter on whatever thread you post. Ignore list you go.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
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Well, as much better as the AI is in UT3 over the other versions, it's almost as good to do offline play in UT3 as it would be playing Classic UT or UT2004 online. Epic may not have improved online gameplay with UT3, but they did, however, manage to make the bot AI far better this time, almost as good as the original UT's bots were. UT2004's bots were a little too easy-going, and made you do all the work.

Talking about AI, I have always been mainly an offline person, but I can't say that bots are much different between the games. In UT, no bot could ever take the flag in CTF-Dreary; In UT2004, no bot could ever take the flag in my VCTF-Garden map (pathed to perfection, hence why I'm talking about it); in UT3, well, I haven't played enough maps to say, but overall VCTF is a lot harder without the Classic VCTF mutator, so bots are rarely useful there as well.

Though I do need to say that the bot skill I have set in the games is pretty different. In UT and UT3, I use levels around Skilled, while UT2004 needs Masterful to not be easy in non-DM gametypes.
 

brdempsey69

Original UT Owns !!
Jun 19, 2003
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brdempsey69, I don't care to argue with you. Unlike the true fans, you're just a waste of time, web browser disk space and screen clutter on whatever thread you post. Ignore list you go.

Thank you for exposing to the world your lack of courage, integrity, knowledge, common sense, & the fact that you can't handle someone telling it like it is.

Good riddance !!

Though I do need to say that the bot skill I have set in the games is pretty different. In UT and UT3, I use levels around Skilled, while UT2004 needs Masterful to not be easy in non-DM gametypes.

I have my bots set to Masterful in UT, adept in UT2004, Skilled in UT3.
 
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Benfica

European Redneck
Feb 6, 2006
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Currently I'm liking UT3 as I never did before. I've been playing a bit more offline, I have no problem finding online games and there's so much custom content out there. Today is also the Sunday ONS2/custom maps night, so I hope I manage to play for a while.

I stopped worrying and taking this seriously. Last few months I spent more time discussing than playing. Not anymore :)
 

KillerSkaarj

Art for swans is dope!
Jan 24, 2008
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Agreed, it is hard to dispute what you are saying, even though I am guilty of doing what you said -- looking back.

You are right, it isn't dead. To me, it does seem quite significantly diminished from what it once was, however.

I do like all UT's to a point, so I do play them all.

UT3 does have some one-of-a-kind type maps, the likes of which we hadn't seen in any previous UT's. The best example I can think of is VCTF-Sandstorm.

I actually have to agree with this. The hell is wrong with me? It looks like someone is trying to make you look bad, and I fell for it.

Anyway, yes, the game isn't dead. It only looks dead because these guys aren't even playing it anymore, and so they think because so many people are quitting they're assuming the game is dead.

I love all UTs too, except the original is the one I rarely play for some reason. I would play UT3 more, but I need to install my new 9500 GT so I can get some decent framerates in the stock maps (need a new PSU).

And I can name two more unique maps: DM-Heatray is the only DM map with a vehicle as far as I know, and DM-Gateway takes place in five different environments (or was it three? I can't remember).