What do you think the new engine should be? [Poll]
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NavySupra said:
haven’t you noticed, that's half the fun of INF!
why make a realism mod for a realistic game?
While FC looks nice, no one has experience with how extensible it is. and I for one have misgivings on that front, it may be too purpose-built.
That's part of it certainly. But the UT2004 game itself isn't really representative of what can be done with the engine. Take something like Raven Shield, for example... does that look cartoonish and unrealistic?
The real challenge for a mod makers is to take a game, flip it over and make something totally new. It gives a certain feel of accomplishmet to know that you've made something unique. Like someone said already, where's the fun in just making a variation of a game?
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
In the last 7 days, I had to change my mind about engines for INF... It still could change...
Based on recent engines available now, it would be:
HL2* > UT2004 > FC > Anything > Mega Tetris > Doom3 > Pong 2k3
*HL2 position is based on experiences in SOURCE. Not the actual HL2 game.... it could become are >>> eventually, stay at this "ranking" or go down (which I doupt it will). It also takes in consideration what I call "the steam factor"... still on top anyway.
Based on recent engines available now, it would be:
HL2* > UT2004 > FC > Anything > Mega Tetris > Doom3 > Pong 2k3
*HL2 position is based on experiences in SOURCE. Not the actual HL2 game.... it could become are >>> eventually, stay at this "ranking" or go down (which I doupt it will). It also takes in consideration what I call "the steam factor"... still on top anyway.
I know that a number of threads have been brought up in regards to the subject of the future engine for INF.
Personally myself I feel that the FarCry / Crytek engine is the best choice for the format in which Infiltration has seemingly strived to be. Please correct me if I’m wrong, BUT it seems that Infiltration is a squad based game falling under a military Special Forces Unit. No direct unit seems to be named, BUT it is military. Military units are bound by the Geneva Convention so that limits ammunition types but not firearms types. INF is the most accurate simulation for firearms usage in this type of scenario that I have ever seen. The true use of iron sights and the method in which the system is implemented is almost seamless. Obviously members of this board don’t really need to read my thoughts on the game as it is.
This post is an attempt to make points and justifications as to why I think the Crytek engine should be the choice for INF3.
Obviously everyone has seen farcry and are well aware of its capabilities. I’m doing some research as well as making my own comments on what I think would be possible with this engine. As well as outlining some game-type ideas that could truly change the face multiplayer gaming. Well maybe not change the face of, considering that the Battle Field series did an excellent job of this, but it could defiantly create some very unique scenarios that would be hard to beat.
The environment is very responsive to the player. The physics engine is excellent, and is very real to life. Although Farcry is set in the future, and its story line is somewhat far-fetched it is very hard to dispute the capabilities of the engine. Unfortunately my machine is not capable of providing very good screenshots of the games capabilities, but I will try none the less.
Here is a couple in game screenshots to help show what FC is capable of on lower end machines. I’m running an Athlon 2500 with 512 megs of ram, and an ATI 128meg 9200.
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0000.jpg
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0001.jpg
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0002.jpg
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0003.jpg
This gives you the basic idea of what farcry looks like in game for those who have not seen it.
It also gives an idea of the sheer viewable area that you command in the farcry engine. Obviously not every map HAS to have water, but it shows you that it wouldn’t be that difficult to make a forest in Washington State, or the desert in Iraq. A small island that is under attack. A ocean going vessel taken over by rebels. These are just to name a few simple ideas that would seem very easy to implement in the farcry engine. I’ve only played with the map editor a little bit, but with some work I think that just about anything is possible. You CAN import your own models into the map, so a good mapper that builds something for a map in 3dsmax or what have you would be able to create seamless integration with the map itself. The editor allows you to test the map inside of the editor so its much easier to get the feel of the map that your looking for. Again I do not have enough experience with the farcry editor to truly know the extents of its capabilities. Though from the demonstration videos I’ve watched it’s truly amazing.
Here is a link to the stats of the Crytek engine, though admittingly Crytek could have jazzed it up a bit. http://www.crytek.de/technology/index.php?sx=cryengine
I myself am just working on some high-poly models of the hk53 for something to do, then I’m going to make a low-poly version for INF2.9. I’ve been seriously considering building a mod for farcry, BUT I think that FC would be an excellent choice for the new INF.
I do not believe that people here fully appreciate the immense maps and game play that would be possible using FC. You could have maps where the bad guys have time to setup defense and the opposing force takes a minute or two just to hike it into the base. The level of realism that would be able to be achieved in FC boggles my mind. Imagine having 2 or 3 squads on one team with different objectives.
For example we’ll imagine that we have squads per team(as I have no idea the network capability of FC).
The setting for this scenario would be that of drug lords airport in Columbia or some such thing. Alpha teams job would be to get in and neutralize the tower and guard staff, while bravo team needs to move 3 fuel trucks to different parts of the runway, then attach explosives to them, detonating them, putting the runway out of commission. Obviously the bad dude’s job would be to stop them.
The “good guys” would be dropped into a landing zone about a click away from the airport. The time it would take them to hump it into the base would be adequate for the bad-dudes to setup a defense. Once they had reach the outside perimeter of the airport this would be set as the new spawn point for reinforcements. In this case the bad guys would have a barracks or whatever that contained weapon ammunition and grenades and such. Another interesting thing to add to the map is that maybe the initial starting point for the good guys could be randomly anywhere on that one click, so that the bad dudes would have to cover 360 degrees until such a time as they know where the attacking force is coming from. This way it could not be easily setup and make it to difficult for the good guys.
I realize that just about any other engine out there should be able to pull this off, but it is my opinion that FC could really give INF a huge amount of depth.
Just my $0.02… I was going to state more, but I think the idea is here, and I think that FC speaks for itself.
Personally myself I feel that the FarCry / Crytek engine is the best choice for the format in which Infiltration has seemingly strived to be. Please correct me if I’m wrong, BUT it seems that Infiltration is a squad based game falling under a military Special Forces Unit. No direct unit seems to be named, BUT it is military. Military units are bound by the Geneva Convention so that limits ammunition types but not firearms types. INF is the most accurate simulation for firearms usage in this type of scenario that I have ever seen. The true use of iron sights and the method in which the system is implemented is almost seamless. Obviously members of this board don’t really need to read my thoughts on the game as it is.
This post is an attempt to make points and justifications as to why I think the Crytek engine should be the choice for INF3.
Obviously everyone has seen farcry and are well aware of its capabilities. I’m doing some research as well as making my own comments on what I think would be possible with this engine. As well as outlining some game-type ideas that could truly change the face multiplayer gaming. Well maybe not change the face of, considering that the Battle Field series did an excellent job of this, but it could defiantly create some very unique scenarios that would be hard to beat.
The environment is very responsive to the player. The physics engine is excellent, and is very real to life. Although Farcry is set in the future, and its story line is somewhat far-fetched it is very hard to dispute the capabilities of the engine. Unfortunately my machine is not capable of providing very good screenshots of the games capabilities, but I will try none the less.
Here is a couple in game screenshots to help show what FC is capable of on lower end machines. I’m running an Athlon 2500 with 512 megs of ram, and an ATI 128meg 9200.
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0000.jpg
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0001.jpg
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0002.jpg
http://www.performancescene.net/fc/FarCry0003.jpg
This gives you the basic idea of what farcry looks like in game for those who have not seen it.
It also gives an idea of the sheer viewable area that you command in the farcry engine. Obviously not every map HAS to have water, but it shows you that it wouldn’t be that difficult to make a forest in Washington State, or the desert in Iraq. A small island that is under attack. A ocean going vessel taken over by rebels. These are just to name a few simple ideas that would seem very easy to implement in the farcry engine. I’ve only played with the map editor a little bit, but with some work I think that just about anything is possible. You CAN import your own models into the map, so a good mapper that builds something for a map in 3dsmax or what have you would be able to create seamless integration with the map itself. The editor allows you to test the map inside of the editor so its much easier to get the feel of the map that your looking for. Again I do not have enough experience with the farcry editor to truly know the extents of its capabilities. Though from the demonstration videos I’ve watched it’s truly amazing.
Here is a link to the stats of the Crytek engine, though admittingly Crytek could have jazzed it up a bit. http://www.crytek.de/technology/index.php?sx=cryengine
I myself am just working on some high-poly models of the hk53 for something to do, then I’m going to make a low-poly version for INF2.9. I’ve been seriously considering building a mod for farcry, BUT I think that FC would be an excellent choice for the new INF.
I do not believe that people here fully appreciate the immense maps and game play that would be possible using FC. You could have maps where the bad guys have time to setup defense and the opposing force takes a minute or two just to hike it into the base. The level of realism that would be able to be achieved in FC boggles my mind. Imagine having 2 or 3 squads on one team with different objectives.
For example we’ll imagine that we have squads per team(as I have no idea the network capability of FC).
The setting for this scenario would be that of drug lords airport in Columbia or some such thing. Alpha teams job would be to get in and neutralize the tower and guard staff, while bravo team needs to move 3 fuel trucks to different parts of the runway, then attach explosives to them, detonating them, putting the runway out of commission. Obviously the bad dude’s job would be to stop them.
The “good guys” would be dropped into a landing zone about a click away from the airport. The time it would take them to hump it into the base would be adequate for the bad-dudes to setup a defense. Once they had reach the outside perimeter of the airport this would be set as the new spawn point for reinforcements. In this case the bad guys would have a barracks or whatever that contained weapon ammunition and grenades and such. Another interesting thing to add to the map is that maybe the initial starting point for the good guys could be randomly anywhere on that one click, so that the bad dudes would have to cover 360 degrees until such a time as they know where the attacking force is coming from. This way it could not be easily setup and make it to difficult for the good guys.
I realize that just about any other engine out there should be able to pull this off, but it is my opinion that FC could really give INF a huge amount of depth.
Just my $0.02… I was going to state more, but I think the idea is here, and I think that FC speaks for itself.
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I think it's incredible how well Infiltration have developed on the UT'99 engine.
Inf 2.9 was a nice improvement from 2.86 and I'm sure every aspect of the game will continue to get tweaked and new cool gameplay and stuff will be added whatever engine the Inf DevTeam settles for.
I'd vote for UT2k4 'cause it's probably the easiest one to get started on and it should be should be technically advanced enough for the next generation of INF. I don't know a thing about game development but I would believe the more you can refer to previous work, the better. There will always be new, hotter engines, created for the main purpose of selling the latest (commercial) games, since it's a necessary sales argument. I don't think INF has to change a lot 'til the next stage. Change too much too fast and you risk loosing identity.
I don't mean disrespect to Doom 3 or Far Cry, both engines are very impressive and of course I'm grateful for any new groundbreaking game engine that pops up. I still think UT2k4 would be the best choice. Maybe someone could write a new kick-ass one for the next INF?
Inf 2.9 was a nice improvement from 2.86 and I'm sure every aspect of the game will continue to get tweaked and new cool gameplay and stuff will be added whatever engine the Inf DevTeam settles for.
I'd vote for UT2k4 'cause it's probably the easiest one to get started on and it should be should be technically advanced enough for the next generation of INF. I don't know a thing about game development but I would believe the more you can refer to previous work, the better. There will always be new, hotter engines, created for the main purpose of selling the latest (commercial) games, since it's a necessary sales argument. I don't think INF has to change a lot 'til the next stage. Change too much too fast and you risk loosing identity.
I don't mean disrespect to Doom 3 or Far Cry, both engines are very impressive and of course I'm grateful for any new groundbreaking game engine that pops up. I still think UT2k4 would be the best choice. Maybe someone could write a new kick-ass one for the next INF?
Navy, your system is by no means low-end. And, although I agree that FC looks pretty, as I said before I don't think it's flexible enough code-wise for what SS would want to do with it. It's by no means easy to figure out to start with.
Mag... same feelings here. UT2004 offers a good balance between flexibility for the developer, decent graphics/sound/physics/etc. and peformance for low-end systems.
Mag... same feelings here. UT2004 offers a good balance between flexibility for the developer, decent graphics/sound/physics/etc. and peformance for low-end systems.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Crowze, his system is by no means high-end either. I would call it an "average system, closer to low than high-end, without being outdate".
i dont know but the engine that allows moving vegetation , BIG maps (kilometers) , and big detailled buildings without lag
I think they should pick whatever they're confortable with.
My personal preference goes with ID and Epic engines, but that's just because they're portable (i.e. they work on linux and mac out of the box). But that's just cause I'm a linux user.
My personal preference goes with ID and Epic engines, but that's just because they're portable (i.e. they work on linux and mac out of the box). But that's just cause I'm a linux user.
This entire thread is pointless. We need a larger development team to even hope to tackle switching engines. Acting like children and having shouting matches over which engine is better is completely counter-productive.
INF is a dying mod at this point, you're never going to get fresh people to play this mod if we continue to cling to this ancient UT engine. It was designed around Glide for god's sake! I don't care what engine the INF team decides to switch to, just start working on it as soon as possible!
INF is a dying mod at this point, you're never going to get fresh people to play this mod if we continue to cling to this ancient UT engine. It was designed around Glide for god's sake! I don't care what engine the INF team decides to switch to, just start working on it as soon as possible!
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
On some related note... Half Life 2 gets released today... or should... what ever.
Still think that HL2 > UT, just from my experiences with source.
Still think that HL2 > UT, just from my experiences with source.
I'm gunna take a chance here and say that I feel the Source engine could be a good choice. Unlike the previous HL, it is no longer a Quake based engine. Thus freed from - in my opinion - IDs crap. I've played the HL2 game through to the end. It's a very gritty and realisticly geared engine.
The physics which are integrated into the engine add some opportunity for gameplay expansion. I can personally vouch for the fact the physics from the video are not prescripted.
It is in fact, a realtime physics engine with boyancy, wieght, ragdoll uh, bones in the people flopping action, the works. It also works well. At one point I -during a firefight in a stairwell- lobbed a 'nade up to the next floors staircase landing. This resulted in the poor enemy soldier cartwheeling over the hand railing. As he fell his leg became entangled in a gap between a couple of steps. His corpse proceeded to dangle. Suspended by his now firmly wedged foot; he swung slowly and rythmically to a stop. It was fantastic. I feel this is also a good example to illustrate my thoughts on how a physics engine could really help with game immersion and an overall "realistic" feel.
As for performance the Source engine is very scalable, enabling people with older systems to still run it reasonable well. I personally know several guys with machines bumping just over the 1 gig mark that run the game fine. No stuttering, no problem. Mind you the graphics are keyed down real good, but the game still looks nice and runs smooth.
Valve - although prone to bull****- has been working for the mod community lately and basically it's a pretty good deal.
All the code is Visual C++ 6 which is good. C++ pretty much all programmers know it and thus can after a familiarization process with the classes and whatnot would have a fairly easy time working with. As far as mapping goes the world crafter is reasonably decent software, theres something called a material system. Long story short, it simplifies mapping complex scenery and level design by using, basically, a pre-defined material. For instance. The mapper would tell the program " hey, this is wood" and the program then assigns the coresponding properties for boyancy, damage, etc.
I also love FC, but so far I have heard zero from thier community. I haven't been following closely, but that doesnt seem to be a terribly thriving scene. To me it would be foolish to build your house in quicksand.
UT2k4 is also great game, excellent tools are provided, the built in audio system works surprising well. And after poking around in it code a little I fell these these guys are right. The engine behind UT2k4 is capable of much more than the game UT2k4 utilizes. Its my understanding guys have already worked out deformable terrain, destructable buildings,and an improved lighting system more on par with FC or HL2. It's an amazing game and game engine. If I had to put my money down I'd say the Sentry guys are working on a UT2k4 flavor game as we speak. UT2k4 is a venerable platform. It has very few if any faults, but Source offers more.That's how I feel.
Very few people have spoken of Doom3 so I'll make this brief. I dislike the feel of Doom3. I run a Nvidia 6800 GT overclocker edition built by BFGtech. This is not a dog of a videocard. In Doom3 , High settings, things still looked blocky. A quick example of my gripes against the power of the engine: There is a known weakness in the engine so that shadows are not cast on character models ( this stems from how the engine handles "soft" shadows). In my opinion Doom3 is all smoke and mirrors and no substance, unless your afraid of the dark and repetative moaning sound effects.
I suppose, however, in the end it doesnt matter how passionately or vulgarly we aurgue for our champion because in the end the Sentry guys will make thier own choice -much as we have chosen- based on thier own opinion, likes, and dislikes. However they choose I'm confident I'll be pleased with the end result. Whether it be D3, or FC, or HL2 or even UT2k4.As these fellows have already proven, if you'll pardon the vernacular, they know thier ****. These things said I feeling the Source engine could provide a very capable platform for the next Infiltration and this is my reasoning behind my vote.
The physics which are integrated into the engine add some opportunity for gameplay expansion. I can personally vouch for the fact the physics from the video are not prescripted.
It is in fact, a realtime physics engine with boyancy, wieght, ragdoll uh, bones in the people flopping action, the works. It also works well. At one point I -during a firefight in a stairwell- lobbed a 'nade up to the next floors staircase landing. This resulted in the poor enemy soldier cartwheeling over the hand railing. As he fell his leg became entangled in a gap between a couple of steps. His corpse proceeded to dangle. Suspended by his now firmly wedged foot; he swung slowly and rythmically to a stop. It was fantastic. I feel this is also a good example to illustrate my thoughts on how a physics engine could really help with game immersion and an overall "realistic" feel.
As for performance the Source engine is very scalable, enabling people with older systems to still run it reasonable well. I personally know several guys with machines bumping just over the 1 gig mark that run the game fine. No stuttering, no problem. Mind you the graphics are keyed down real good, but the game still looks nice and runs smooth.
Valve - although prone to bull****- has been working for the mod community lately and basically it's a pretty good deal.
All the code is Visual C++ 6 which is good. C++ pretty much all programmers know it and thus can after a familiarization process with the classes and whatnot would have a fairly easy time working with. As far as mapping goes the world crafter is reasonably decent software, theres something called a material system. Long story short, it simplifies mapping complex scenery and level design by using, basically, a pre-defined material. For instance. The mapper would tell the program " hey, this is wood" and the program then assigns the coresponding properties for boyancy, damage, etc.
I also love FC, but so far I have heard zero from thier community. I haven't been following closely, but that doesnt seem to be a terribly thriving scene. To me it would be foolish to build your house in quicksand.
UT2k4 is also great game, excellent tools are provided, the built in audio system works surprising well. And after poking around in it code a little I fell these these guys are right. The engine behind UT2k4 is capable of much more than the game UT2k4 utilizes. Its my understanding guys have already worked out deformable terrain, destructable buildings,and an improved lighting system more on par with FC or HL2. It's an amazing game and game engine. If I had to put my money down I'd say the Sentry guys are working on a UT2k4 flavor game as we speak. UT2k4 is a venerable platform. It has very few if any faults, but Source offers more.That's how I feel.
Very few people have spoken of Doom3 so I'll make this brief. I dislike the feel of Doom3. I run a Nvidia 6800 GT overclocker edition built by BFGtech. This is not a dog of a videocard. In Doom3 , High settings, things still looked blocky. A quick example of my gripes against the power of the engine: There is a known weakness in the engine so that shadows are not cast on character models ( this stems from how the engine handles "soft" shadows). In my opinion Doom3 is all smoke and mirrors and no substance, unless your afraid of the dark and repetative moaning sound effects.
I suppose, however, in the end it doesnt matter how passionately or vulgarly we aurgue for our champion because in the end the Sentry guys will make thier own choice -much as we have chosen- based on thier own opinion, likes, and dislikes. However they choose I'm confident I'll be pleased with the end result. Whether it be D3, or FC, or HL2 or even UT2k4.As these fellows have already proven, if you'll pardon the vernacular, they know thier ****. These things said I feeling the Source engine could provide a very capable platform for the next Infiltration and this is my reasoning behind my vote.
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Linus and HL2 goodness
BEHOLD Ye' OF the cult of the great penguin TUX!! The Free Man has blessed you and all of your distros.
_________________________hot off the press_________________________
LinuX-gamers have sent word that TransGaming's upcoming release of Cedga, will support Half-Life 2.
TransGaming, today announced unprecedented Linux support for this year’s most highly anticipated video game, Valve Software’s Half-Life 2. On the heels of its commercial debut, TransGaming’s Cedega product will run Half-Life 2 on the Linux operating system, right out-of-the-box.
Check out the full story here.
Excellent news for you linux fans out there.
BEHOLD Ye' OF the cult of the great penguin TUX!! The Free Man has blessed you and all of your distros.
_________________________hot off the press_________________________
LinuX-gamers have sent word that TransGaming's upcoming release of Cedga, will support Half-Life 2.
TransGaming, today announced unprecedented Linux support for this year’s most highly anticipated video game, Valve Software’s Half-Life 2. On the heels of its commercial debut, TransGaming’s Cedega product will run Half-Life 2 on the Linux operating system, right out-of-the-box.
Check out the full story here.
Excellent news for you linux fans out there.