I've played against the bots (who tend to make dumb decisions and run in straight lines) and I've played against human players and I can authoritatively say that playing against dumb AI doesn't compare to playing against live human opponents who can be creative and outsmart you and/or surprise you. You also miss the experience of being part of a community and of being able to interact with other players, socially, such as on voice comm.
You make a valid point. And i actually do agree with you that playing against bots does not compare to playing against a human opponant. But with that said, i still prefer to know who it is i am playing against in person. Which is why i play LAN.
I hop online in classic ut99 every now and then because the bots in that game, while i still enjoy playing against them.... SUCK!
They are exactly what you have described: predictable robots. I don't mean they suck as in They are easy to defeat, i mean they are predictable and repetitive.
But despite the problems i still play the bots more because they DO present a challenge to me. They may be predictable but they are still challenging.
On being part of a community: I do that on forums, i don't feel the need to do it in games. so i pass up on that one.
My opinion is worth what you paid for it. I have been playing the game since early 2001 and I've been heavily involved in numerous UT communities, discussion forums, and IRC channels. I've released five UT99 CTF maps and I've even managed a server or two and a clan that actively competed on a major competitive ladder.
Don't take this as an insult or anything (Seriously, i'm trying to keep it cool and if it seems offensive please don't take it that way), but the fact that you've managed a clan, been heavily involved in IRC and maintained a server doesn't mean anything to me. I am an offliner after all
Releasing 5 maps does demand recognition though. What are they BTW?
What's ironic about your statement is that you have no idea just how true it is when applied to some of the communities I've interacted with. (For a good time, visit
http://www.ProUnreal.com where you can find new meaning for the term "elitist wankers".)
I think i'll pass.
I just backed up my post by explaining how playing against live humans is a superior gaming experience to playing against dumb AI.
Yes, you've backed up your
opinion. This whole thing is very "imo". And my opinion differs from yours greatly. I understand your arguments for why online is great, but i disagree with the fact that it is better then offline. That's all there is to it.
I disagree. No need for any more discussion on that matter.
Why are you so afraid to play the game in online multiplayer? Are you afraid to learn that you suck at it?
Enough with the ****ing personal attacks already! I've already said why i don't want to play online and you have surely noticed that it has nothing to do with
"fear".
I have played online (Only ut99 though). And TBH i did think i would suck against human opponants. I was quite astonished to learn that i did not. After playing against bots for 6 years straight i decided to give online a go and i owned. I won every match in DM. I assumed it was a n00b server and found another one but the result was the same.
And heres the bit that i hate to admit: You are totally right. The experience of playing online is exactly what you have been describing. Instead of merely "winning the match", i was winning the match while having a totally new gaming experience that was intensely fun and a different sort of challenge.
It was a different sort of challenge because i had to use new tactics:
1. get to know who i was fighting against and their fighting styles.
2. Figure out who is the best player under me and watch out for him.
3. figure out who was the n00b and never let up a chance for the easy frag.
etc.
It was fun because it was "a new take on an old game" kind of thing and because i was absolutely pwning at it.
And that is also why i don't play online, i never lost a game against human opponants. But i have lost plenty of games against bots and still do to this day.
They may be predictable, they may be stupid, they may be repetitive but they still present a better challenge then human opponants.
I prefer human opponants, but the bots are more challenging.
You're an onliner. You would know
all about aimbots right? Well here's a question for you: How good do you think a human player would be if the only thing you knew about him was that he practiced against aimbots in every match he played?
That is what these bots are. They are aimbots with the ability to imitate human behaviour.
I play against these buggers every time and boy is it a challenge. More challenging then the hoards of spammers you find online. More challenging then fighting against a human without an aimbot for sure.
The thrill from winning against these bastards is greater then the thrill i got from winning every match i played online. These bots keep me high and truely test my quick movements and reflexes.
In answer to your insult: No. I do not fear that i will suck online because i know otherwise. And why would i fear sucking online if i'm an offliner anyway?
I must have missed the "content filled posts" or browsed over them quickly and dismissed them as being irrational and silly. I'll have to go back and reread the thread when I have time. Assuming that you have a decent Internet connection there's no reason to play the game in single player other than to learn the basic game play.
Please do reread the thread. And i'm sick of saying this, but obviously playing the game in single player is NOT just to learn the basic gameplay. It is to play the game and have fun. It is one of the ways to play the game and have fun. If you have fun online then great. I have fun playing offline and i don't do it just to learn the gameplay.
OK, I see part of your point. I agree that the game needs higher player counts (which would support server setting diversity, allowing you to chose servers that have settings you'd want to play).
Indeed. This game needs more players. If only to secure another unreal game. Higher palyer counts don't mean anything to me as you would be able to deduce from my arguments.
Regardless, I'd definitely rather play online with non-ideal settings than play dumb bots.
*sigh*, to each his own. I prefer playing with ideal settings and dumb bots.
All things being equal, given a certain game type and conditions, playing it in online multiplayer is better than playing it against bots offline.
Please make use of more "imo" statements because what you are saying is completely false unless you claim it is an opinion. As it stands you're trying to make it sound like a fact, which it is most certainly not. I would say that given a certain game type and conditions, playing it against bots offline is better than playing it in online multiplayer
IMO.
I think it's implied in people's arguments when you compare the same game in single player to the same game in online multiplayer that the online multiplayer experience is superior.
Well it's certainly not implyed in my arguments. i find the offline games to be superior.
I noticed that your join date is Feb 2008. Did you play any of the other UT games?
All of them. You've been playing since 2001? good for you. I've been playing since 1998. Starting with the original unreal. I originally joined BU some time early in 2007, but the crash forced me to re-register. Being the offliner that i am i didn't feel much need to join forums until recently.
Judging the online multiplayer aspect of the game based on UT3 (which, as an overall package, has proven to be a huge failure) is a mistake.
Yeah, i agree totally. But i'm talking about online in general not just ut3.
Perhaps you'd have had a better appreciation for online multiplayer if you had played back when UT99 and UT 2004 were popular.
Like i've said, I appreciate it but I don't play it. And the funny thing is that ut2004 is still popular in my eyes as is ut99 because when you cut out the online aspects these games are eternal. You don't need community or popularity to enjoy a game offline.
I recommend getting UT 2004 and playing Onslaught and Invasion Monster Mash RPG online.
Ugh, *shudders*
I prefer invasion in its pure form, with a few mutators thrown in. The RPG mods make me puke
I appreciate the advice though. :tup: thanks
Gays and blacks don't have any control over being gay or black. However, people who choose to play the game in single player instead of playing it online do have a choice.
Gays have control over being gay. But whatever. You are right, offliners do have a choice, and they have chosen offline. Why don't you just accept that some people enjoy offline and some people don't, but that either way it doesn't mean one is better then the other.
This problem is even worse in the Sins of a Solar Empire community where the overwhelming majority of people just play the game in single player mode against a dumb and predictable AI. On the forums they complain that the game needs a campaign. Why do you need a campaign? Just click the "Ironclad Online" button and getcher butt into the real Sins game.
I'll agree with you on this one. Some games need to be played online or they aren't worth playing. WoW is a good example.
But if they did add a campaign mode to Sins then there would suddenly be reason to play it offline wouldn't there? Ahh well, don't answer that one, it's totally OT
People look for different things in a game, If you happen to prefer a particular gametype or prefer offline rather than online play then it really says nothing regarding social skills, ability or much else. So how about some live and let live.
Offline also has many advantages. A couple of major ones being, you are guaranteed a certain level of play and avoid lame tactics like team stacking and people who are just out to wreck the game in progress.
Myself I play 90% of my ut online for the reasons already laid out by others, I also enjoy an occasional FFA DM or Invasion thrash vs bots.
This is the kind of post i like to see. It can get across the fact that the poster prefers online gaming without bashing anyone. And it acknowledges the advantages of the other option available.
EDIT: OMG this is seriously tl;dr
