UT2004's devastated community and UT2007's future
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OMG that took a long time to read!
I don't think that we'll ever see a really popular sci-fi FPS again. There are a couple of reasons I think this:
Improbable weapons: Now that graphics are good, I think that it is harder for people to suspend their disbelief of something. That and whenever you see something that does not make sense you are pulled a bit more from the immersion in the game.
Reliance on blood: I have never seen a popular sci-fi game that did not rely on massive amouts of blood and violence, and lets face it, a lot of people don't like that.
Learning: You have to go deep into the game. The first time I ever played Cs I knew instinctively what to do, bought an AK, and blew someones head off in 30 seconds. It was simple. And all the weapons work the same way. In sci-fi games you have to have a weird plathorea of weapons with a multitude of functions, since, it is the future after all. The problem is that not everyone likes having to learn to get good.
Community: In a FPS game (Not just Sci-fi) you have to MAKE a community. It's not natural for people killing each other to get together and do stuff. The game does not require it. In an MMO, yopu have to paricipate in a community. For that matter many MMOs are actually just that - a community and chatroom in 3d. Communities are what bond. BU is the only reason I still play UT2004.
I don't think that we'll ever see a really popular sci-fi FPS again. There are a couple of reasons I think this:
Improbable weapons: Now that graphics are good, I think that it is harder for people to suspend their disbelief of something. That and whenever you see something that does not make sense you are pulled a bit more from the immersion in the game.
Reliance on blood: I have never seen a popular sci-fi game that did not rely on massive amouts of blood and violence, and lets face it, a lot of people don't like that.
Learning: You have to go deep into the game. The first time I ever played Cs I knew instinctively what to do, bought an AK, and blew someones head off in 30 seconds. It was simple. And all the weapons work the same way. In sci-fi games you have to have a weird plathorea of weapons with a multitude of functions, since, it is the future after all. The problem is that not everyone likes having to learn to get good.
Community: In a FPS game (Not just Sci-fi) you have to MAKE a community. It's not natural for people killing each other to get together and do stuff. The game does not require it. In an MMO, yopu have to paricipate in a community. For that matter many MMOs are actually just that - a community and chatroom in 3d. Communities are what bond. BU is the only reason I still play UT2004.
I'm really sorry guys I didn't me to come back so soon but:
By the way CyMek makes a good point, but sci-fi does not have to follow those formulas. This is a result of developers that keep copying each other.
Interestingly,although my observations and conclusions are common sense, and some here want to call them conspiracy theory, well what if I told you that Intel might be sabotaging AMD's chip performance in computer applications and forcing people not to by AMD? Of course this could not happen right.
oh but look here and here
You see, today it's messing with player numbers, and then tommorrow it could be degrading performance on ATI cards, or forcing licencees to use one engine exclusively or worst
Turns2Ashes said:
By the way CyMek makes a good point, but sci-fi does not have to follow those formulas. This is a result of developers that keep copying each other.
Actually its my fault in that I said "with regard to offline numbers", I just remember he was talking about offline play. But let's assume he meant most people are playing it offline. How the hell would he know? These offline players for the most part probably never even seen a Unreal Forum and probably rarely ever venture online in game communities, so they couldn't possibly respond to a online poll of this nature.shadow_dragon said:
I never said it would attract new people (although judging from reaction of people that play other games instead of UT2004, I can see that happening). I said it would have had more players simply because more of the UT99 fanbase would have gravitated over. Who knows maybe those people are lost forever now and won't be coming back.hal said:
If that was my true intent, why would I have only brought that issue up in this thread once? Perhaps I knew it would stir things up a bithal said:
Interestingly,although my observations and conclusions are common sense, and some here want to call them conspiracy theory, well what if I told you that Intel might be sabotaging AMD's chip performance in computer applications and forcing people not to by AMD? Of course this could not happen right.
oh but look here and here
You see, today it's messing with player numbers, and then tommorrow it could be degrading performance on ATI cards, or forcing licencees to use one engine exclusively or worst
I actually don t care if it is 3 000 or 300.000 players registered in the stats.
All that I care about, is that I know for sure that my little community of players (about 30-40 people) is just made of 100% human. I don t need 300.000 players to have fun!
All that I care about, is that I know for sure that my little community of players (about 30-40 people) is just made of 100% human. I don t need 300.000 players to have fun!
I wonder how long one should expect any computer game to remain in the top 10? Long enough to encourage enough sales to make a profit?
I bet UT2k4 has made someone a profit by now. It's still fun to play as well... bonus!
One would always like a bigger profit of course, but I guess Epic etc are quite pleased with themselves.
Does popular = profitable and vice versa? I believe it does.
How profitable is a moot point when it comes to my own enjoyment.
EDIT: Sorry PsychoMoggieBagpuss. Good point.
I bet UT2k4 has made someone a profit by now. It's still fun to play as well... bonus!
One would always like a bigger profit of course, but I guess Epic etc are quite pleased with themselves.
Does popular = profitable and vice versa? I believe it does.
How profitable is a moot point when it comes to my own enjoyment.
EDIT: Sorry PsychoMoggieBagpuss. Good point.
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Shhhhhh @nk.
TBH I don't think another game will ever have the impact that UT had when it came out (look at what it had compared to everything else that was out at the time, bots, mutators, ingame chat, loads of different game types out of the box, plus the MSU contests).
Now all of thats a given in any self respecting multiplayer game that comes out, except we now have a new checkbox for vehicals (thanks to tribes).
I really can't see where they will go from here.
TBH I don't think another game will ever have the impact that UT had when it came out (look at what it had compared to everything else that was out at the time, bots, mutators, ingame chat, loads of different game types out of the box, plus the MSU contests).
Now all of thats a given in any self respecting multiplayer game that comes out, except we now have a new checkbox for vehicals (thanks to tribes).
I really can't see where they will go from here.
I think it's more like it is difficult to relate to a fantasy/sf-weapon compared to something even remotely realistic.CyMek said:
For me it was why Tribes didn't do it. The weapons where too far out there.
UT otoh has weapons I'm familliar with and/or that at least appear to function like a realistic weapon.
I'd point at the succes of GTA-series and counter with that people obviously do like violence.
I think key is that it needs to look violent. SF/Fantasy tends to look a bit too clean.
As a result I think that the lack of gore in UT2kx was a dissapointment for a lot of people. Fragging someone in UT'99 was a bloody mess even at its worst settings ...
I'd even say the (current) majority of players doesn't like to spend time to learn how to play.
UT definitely had/has a learning-curve that's like trying to climb mount Everest.
A bit too steep for its own good.
Otoh some people expect to be good at anything without any efford ...
Those are in general the ones that first scream "assaultrifle is weak" / "weapon/item X is overpowered", "map Y is unbalanced"
It also results in claims of 'cheaters' and the hunt for cheats if the game is 'too difficult'.
In other words :
The problem is that no one likes to form a community.
Nowadays it is almost as if it has to come prepackaged with the game.
Some check stuff like CSports and conclude that there's noone (or not enough) people playing and dissapear.
It's the same reason why empty servers stay empty, while the full servers have waiting lines ...
The average gamer isn't looking for a 5-star restaurant that gets good reviews in specialised magazines.
They're looking for a McDonalds-experience : prepackaged & preformatted bits of stuff that the guy/girl at the counter claims is 'fun'. As a result they tend to jump ship whenever there's a new McDreck opened in the area ...
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If this message is repeated it's because some admin here has made it so Logged out users, mainly guests, cannot see my orginal post. Shame on you! Also it reinforces my point that some here are overly biased for sure and don't want regular users seeing my posts. If it's a forum glitch then I apologize
I'm really sorry guys I didn't me to come back so soon but:
By the way CyMek makes a good point, but sci-fi does not have to follow those formulas. This is a result of developers that keep copying each other.
Interestingly,although my observations and conclusions are common sense, and some here want to call them conspiracy theory, well what if I told you that Intel might be sabotaging AMD's chip performance in computer applications and forcing people not to by AMD? Of course this could not happen right.
oh but look here and here
You see, today it's messing with player numbers, and then tommorrow it could be degrading performance on ATI cards, or forcing licencees to use one engine exclusively or worst
I'm really sorry guys I didn't me to come back so soon but:
Turns2Ashes said:
By the way CyMek makes a good point, but sci-fi does not have to follow those formulas. This is a result of developers that keep copying each other.
Actually its my fault in that I said "with regard to offline numbers", I just remember he was talking about offline play. But let's assume he meant most people are playing it offline. How the hell would he know? These offline players for the most part probably never even seen a Unreal Forum and probably rarely ever venture online in game communities, so they couldn't possibly respond to a online poll of this nature.shadow_dragon said:
I never said it would attract new people (although judging from reaction of people that play other games instead of UT2004, I can see that happening). I said it would have had more players simply because more of the UT99 fanbase would have gravitated over. Who know maybe they are lost forever now.hal said:
If that was my true intent, why would I have only brought that issue up in this thread once? Perhaps I knew it would stir things up a bithal said:
Interestingly,although my observations and conclusions are common sense, and some here want to call them conspiracy theory, well what if I told you that Intel might be sabotaging AMD's chip performance in computer applications and forcing people not to by AMD? Of course this could not happen right.
oh but look here and here
You see, today it's messing with player numbers, and then tommorrow it could be degrading performance on ATI cards, or forcing licencees to use one engine exclusively or worst
N
naliking2
Guest
If this message is repeated it's because some admin here has made it so users cannot read any of my posts. Also it reinforces my point that some here are overly biased for sure and BeyondUnreal is not a community site but a site solely to promote Unreal Games. I did not know that Epic provides the main funding behind this site. However people quoted me and asked for my response so here they are once AGAIN .
I'm really sorry guys I didn't me to come back so soon but:
By the way CyMek makes a good point, but sci-fi does not have to follow those formulas. This is a result of developers that keep copying each other.
Interestingly,although my observations and conclusions are common sense, and some here want to call them conspiracy theory, well what if I told you that Intel might be sabotaging AMD's chip performance in computer applications and forcing people not to by AMD? Of course this could not happen right.
oh but look here and here
You see, today it's messing with player numbers, and then tommorrow it could be degrading performance on ATI cards, or forcing licencees to use one engine exclusively or worst
.I'm really sorry guys I didn't me to come back so soon but:
Turns2Ashes said:
By the way CyMek makes a good point, but sci-fi does not have to follow those formulas. This is a result of developers that keep copying each other.
Actually its my fault in that I said "with regard to offline numbers", I just remember he was talking about offline play. But let's assume he meant most people are playing it offline. How the hell would he know? These offline players for the most part probably never even seen a Unreal Forum and probably rarely ever venture online in game communities, so they couldn't possibly respond to a online poll of this nature.shadow_dragon said:
I never said it would attract new people (although judging from reaction of people that play other games instead of UT2004, I can see that happening). I said it would have had more players simply because more of the UT99 fanbase would have gravitated over. Who know maybe they are lost forever now.hal said:
If that was my true intent, why would I have only brought that issue up in this thread once? Perhaps I knew it would stir things up a bithal said:
Interestingly,although my observations and conclusions are common sense, and some here want to call them conspiracy theory, well what if I told you that Intel might be sabotaging AMD's chip performance in computer applications and forcing people not to by AMD? Of course this could not happen right.
oh but look here and here
You see, today it's messing with player numbers, and then tommorrow it could be degrading performance on ATI cards, or forcing licencees to use one engine exclusively or worst
No, you bought the right game.
I've been messing around with BF2 for the last few weeks, and UT2004 was the right choice.
a. BF2 is full of exploits. Put 4 engineers and a medic in a blackhawk chopper, and you can capture flags in 2 seconds flat without touching the ground. The engineers on board will repair any dammage making it invulnerable.
b. Many who play BF2 get ultra high stats by killing their friends. Spawncamping - the process of killing people the second they join the game, is also a favourite pasttime - and given a 15s spawn delay, isn't much fun.
c The game is unstable and crashes. It's patch has been withdrawn because it had a memory hole.
d It's very difficult to join up to your friends online - getting accepted on to a server is a hit and miss affair that can take up to 30 minutes. Getting your friends onto the same server gets very difficult.
UT2004 is slick, does not crash, is way faster paced, and there are plenty of nice servers out there where you can learn how to play. I'm giving up on BF2 untill a big patch is released - it's practically unplayable online at peak times; and the single player game is a joke.
UT2004 got it's hype wrong when released; it got bad reviews - many people e.g. in the BF2 community don't even know it has vehichles. And the demo of UT2004 is awful - who was the gernius who thought that primeval was a map with a selling point?? But there is still a strong core of UT2004 players, and I can't see other games on the horizon that will cap it.
Give those counterstrikers and BF2 er's one round of spiffingrad as a demo, and they'll be hooked.
I've been messing around with BF2 for the last few weeks, and UT2004 was the right choice.
a. BF2 is full of exploits. Put 4 engineers and a medic in a blackhawk chopper, and you can capture flags in 2 seconds flat without touching the ground. The engineers on board will repair any dammage making it invulnerable.
b. Many who play BF2 get ultra high stats by killing their friends. Spawncamping - the process of killing people the second they join the game, is also a favourite pasttime - and given a 15s spawn delay, isn't much fun.
c The game is unstable and crashes. It's patch has been withdrawn because it had a memory hole.
d It's very difficult to join up to your friends online - getting accepted on to a server is a hit and miss affair that can take up to 30 minutes. Getting your friends onto the same server gets very difficult.
UT2004 is slick, does not crash, is way faster paced, and there are plenty of nice servers out there where you can learn how to play. I'm giving up on BF2 untill a big patch is released - it's practically unplayable online at peak times; and the single player game is a joke.
UT2004 got it's hype wrong when released; it got bad reviews - many people e.g. in the BF2 community don't even know it has vehichles. And the demo of UT2004 is awful - who was the gernius who thought that primeval was a map with a selling point?? But there is still a strong core of UT2004 players, and I can't see other games on the horizon that will cap it.
Give those counterstrikers and BF2 er's one round of spiffingrad as a demo, and they'll be hooked.
N
naliking2
Guest
The bottom line is that it seems Epic built bot counting as players into UT2003 and UT2004's infrastructure because their game flopped and not many are playing it at all, and they managed to fool ALL stat sites and 3rd party tools that monitor player counts. Even if you give them the biggest benefit of doubts, it is undeniable that they have used this bot fiasco to fool reporters, reviewers and the community. 800 players online at once is nothing to be ashamed of if its achieved honestly, but instead they use bots to show 6000 players are playing when there is only 800 human players.
By condoning this and ignoring it, you leave the door open to further exploitation in the future similar to the AMD v.s Intel fiasco.
It's also lame that an admin at BeyondUnreal would abuse his power and delete/hide all my posts because my "theories" are more likely true than not. How else is he abusing his admin priveleges?
Hal said it was lame they deleted the Atari thread, yet BeyondUnreal wants to sensor negative but constructive criticism. If all you want is to promote the series then why bother with forums. If you don't like a thread don't post in it!
By condoning this and ignoring it, you leave the door open to further exploitation in the future similar to the AMD v.s Intel fiasco.
It's also lame that an admin at BeyondUnreal would abuse his power and delete/hide all my posts because my "theories" are more likely true than not. How else is he abusing his admin priveleges?
Hal said it was lame they deleted the Atari thread, yet BeyondUnreal wants to sensor negative but constructive criticism. If all you want is to promote the series then why bother with forums. If you don't like a thread don't post in it!
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This might be so if it were true.naliking2 said:
What the bottom line really is is that UT200X has always counted bots. Epic had no way to know on the release of the original UT2003 demo how many people would be playing UT2003, and, admittedly, most people didn't give a rats ass about bot counting until the player numbers DID start dwindling. IMO, this 100% discounts your whole "conspiracy theory". There is no telling what was involved in that counting getting implemented in the first place, and the fact that it wasn't removed in UT2004 only goes to further prove my point, as they admitted to changing the way that bot counting works when UT2004 was released.
Really, what does this have to do with anything. Is this something you just barely learned about and decided that it has some relevancy to what we are talking about here? We've known about these legal proceedings for a number of weeks. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've personally known about it for even longer than that. I find it laughable that you use a company like Intel to represent Epic when AMD would be a better comparison. To be honest, I find it ridiculous that you found the AMD vs. Intel lawsuit worthwhile to this discussion, as it has no bearing on the it whatsoever.
Maybe they got sick of you trolling.
So...where was the "constructive" part of anything that you said in this entire thread? Where was the "constructive" part of anything that you have posted on BuF? I'm still confused why you continue to come here if you hate UT and Epic.
No - bottom line is that Epic has developed a functioning and working AI that actually work in an online environment; most games with bots are just silly, stupid and irritating.
Unreal Tournament 2004 1,594 277,118
Are the Cnet stats right now - a community of probably 200,000 players - (because some of the 277,118 in 31 days are players who play with more than one alias.
This thread isn't hidden - I can't see what the real issue is.
As I said - buy BF2 - play it for a few weeks. Then play onslaught for a few weeks. The sin of developers releasing unstable, unplayable games is far greater than this issue.
And if you see what EA are doing with those who run their ow nervers at great cost, creatively (they ban the server) - in order to promote an additional revenue stream of their own licenced "ranked" servers- which are far less admined, and contain far more players who play the game's many exploits; honestly, it is Epic who shine the light for the future of PC development.
Unreal Tournament 2004 1,594 277,118
Are the Cnet stats right now - a community of probably 200,000 players - (because some of the 277,118 in 31 days are players who play with more than one alias.
This thread isn't hidden - I can't see what the real issue is.
As I said - buy BF2 - play it for a few weeks. Then play onslaught for a few weeks. The sin of developers releasing unstable, unplayable games is far greater than this issue.
And if you see what EA are doing with those who run their ow nervers at great cost, creatively (they ban the server) - in order to promote an additional revenue stream of their own licenced "ranked" servers- which are far less admined, and contain far more players who play the game's many exploits; honestly, it is Epic who shine the light for the future of PC development.
It is EA that is devestating it's community; Epic's community s still plodding on.
UT2004 never was a big commercial success, but nonwithstanding, many decent PC gaming mags rate ut2004 as the best online game
The only real contender is BF2, and patched it might offer some competition for ut2004, but right now it is really problematic (unless you want to switch your firewall off- and many gamers seem daft enough to do just that.)
If you watch what EA is doing with promoting ranked servers- servers you pay to play on, that are poorly admined, full of exploiters; and compare them to decent community servers, with teamplay - but are unranked.
So you either play a good game, but don't progress your character or play against bug exploiters. It's a hobson's choice; and EA's move to make money from those who pay to set up servers to host their game is an abysmal precedent that threatens how we know online gaming and is the real decimator and devestator
Whoops - a double post - dunno what happened there - repetetive but i'll leave them in. Thread's been moderated I guess
UT2004 never was a big commercial success, but nonwithstanding, many decent PC gaming mags rate ut2004 as the best online game
The only real contender is BF2, and patched it might offer some competition for ut2004, but right now it is really problematic (unless you want to switch your firewall off- and many gamers seem daft enough to do just that.)
If you watch what EA is doing with promoting ranked servers- servers you pay to play on, that are poorly admined, full of exploiters; and compare them to decent community servers, with teamplay - but are unranked.
So you either play a good game, but don't progress your character or play against bug exploiters. It's a hobson's choice; and EA's move to make money from those who pay to set up servers to host their game is an abysmal precedent that threatens how we know online gaming and is the real decimator and devestator
Whoops - a double post - dunno what happened there - repetetive but i'll leave them in. Thread's been moderated I guess
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N
naliking2
Guest
I already completely and convincingly answered this question and you already know that and want me to continue postingSir_Brizz said:
. Search my posts that are quoted, or wait t'il the admins unhide/undelete my posts from my original account. Epic had every way of knowing UT2003 was going to flop or fail. Even the local 9 year old that followed the UT2003 leak and the mass exodus during the demo could have predicted that. Why in 3 years have they not addressed the problem, why would Gamespy who has known about the problem for a very long time not fix their site to filter out cheating bots and demo players like www.csports.net did once they found out they were being tricked? Why hasn't BeyondUnreal asked them about it, in a formal interview? Interesting since I'm not trolling. They just don't like what the facts show. Obviously one admin felt it's ok to abuse his admin priveleges whenever he feels like it. If this was my site I would remove that admin immediately before he does something extreme.Sir_Brizz said:
I think it's probably PsychoMoggieBagpuss that hid my posts or someone from Epic who has admin powers here.
. All that indicates is that this is not a community site but a promotional site for Unreal Engine games. In other words News and Comments posted by news posters and admins cannot be trusted because they will be 100% biased. They will hide facts and distort truths for the sole purpose of promoting the Unreal Engine games. Perhaps this site is funded by Epic. Or perhaps this site is run by people under the age of 13
I believe you're confusing us with the FOX News Channel.
In any case... evading a ban is, surprisingly enough, a bannable offence.
In any case... evading a ban is, surprisingly enough, a bannable offence.
Actually, you haven't. You have interjected your own opinion as fact, though. Way to go convincing yourself that you are right. What mass exodus during the demo? I guess you never played it because UT2003 was the second most popular game from the time the demo came out until until the retail game had been out approximately 6 months. Nobody cared about bots being counted until there weren't very many people playing anymore, although I'm sure that now you'll change your story and say that UT2003's numbers were always wrong.naliking2 said:I already completely and convincingly answered this question and you already know that and want me to continue posting
There's quite a few possibilities. They might not care enough, because they realize that player counts don't really mean crap. They might not actually know. And there is always the possibility that they are not wrong.
What for? We aren't a GameSpy fan site, and Epic drastically changed the way bots were counted in UT2004. Most people don't give a crap about the player numbers as long as they can find an enjoyable game somewhere at some time. I've been able to find games I feel like playing in at any time of day.
You might want to read up on this page, troll. Almost all of the admins on BU have been around since before UT came out, and they obviously care more about the community and the series than you do. I wouldn't come to a site that you have any level of control over.
Or perhaps this site is run by people under the age of 13
maybe idiz wut u gna do abt it?
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What I'm confused about - You've just bought a copy; and instead of playing the game, you seem to be waging a singlehanded crusade against it.
Buy BF2 or counterstrike, and post complaints about those games instead. Because plenty on fora dedicated to those games will agree with you.
The only place where Epic got it wrong was in marketing. The game itself is actually very good.
Just play it.
Buy BF2 or counterstrike, and post complaints about those games instead. Because plenty on fora dedicated to those games will agree with you.
The only place where Epic got it wrong was in marketing. The game itself is actually very good.
Just play it.
LAST POST!
It's me NaliKing - Don't worry this is my LAST post here!
Raptor I was not banned, I was put on some sort of Global ignore list or my posts were hidden and maybe deleted, because someone got a little nervous about the truth coming out. --Well NOW I have been banned (just learned this when I tried to post) . Perhaps I was banned by someone who thought I was subverting a previous ban, which is not true. I guess this shall be my last post!
The gaming market is a competitive one but cheating this way and getting a hugely public site like Gamespy which does reviews etc... to be an accomplice in it, should not be tolerated. It's no wonder people don't take Gamespy reviews seriously
Remember Epic is not one person, it's a group of people, where probably most of them are honest and hard working individuals. It's too bad the dishonest actions of a few, may taint the whole barrel
Goodbye! See you when UT2007 comes out. Hal - if I'm not really banned or you decide to unban me, just post it in this thread so I know
It's me NaliKing - Don't worry this is my LAST post here!
Raptor I was not banned, I was put on some sort of Global ignore list or my posts were hidden and maybe deleted, because someone got a little nervous about the truth coming out. --Well NOW I have been banned (just learned this when I tried to post) . Perhaps I was banned by someone who thought I was subverting a previous ban, which is not true. I guess this shall be my last post!
The gaming market is a competitive one but cheating this way and getting a hugely public site like Gamespy which does reviews etc... to be an accomplice in it, should not be tolerated. It's no wonder people don't take Gamespy reviews seriously
Actually he started the thread but he never complained about the game. He complained about that not enough people are playing it to make it worthwhile playing for him. He bought it because he was told it was an online game with tons of players. Since he's disappeared he probably is playing counterstrikerhirud said:
UT2003 and UT2004 both had pretty good marketing. Especially UT2003. It would not matter if 20,000 people bought the game or 20 million, because the end result would still have been a mass exodus of players from the Unreal franchise.rhirud said:
If I hated UT or Epic I certainly would not admit that UT99 was a fine game nor would I have stated what is good about the series in past threads. Those threads are probably hidden or on a global ignore list or deleted, thanks to a renegade admin who trolls these forums.Sir_Brizz said:
Remember Epic is not one person, it's a group of people, where probably most of them are honest and hard working individuals. It's too bad the dishonest actions of a few, may taint the whole barrel
Goodbye! See you when UT2007 comes out. Hal - if I'm not really banned or you decide to unban me, just post it in this thread so I know
Yes I admit it. Epic paid me a whole crap load of money to send naliking to coventry because they were threatened by his views that are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
It was abso-bloody-loutly 100% nothing to do with the fact that I had gotten bored of reading 88 posts of repetitive drivel
We indeed do love and worship GSI here.
Thats why we all upped sticks and left, so we could admire them better from a distance.
I shall now drive to work in my new car funded by the Epic Black Ops fund
from where I will attempt to plot on how I will circumvent nalikings vast intellect and superior deduction skills with my mind control ray in an attempt to bring down the bastion of all that is good and honest in this world, that being csports...
[edit]Foiled damn it, he has his tinfoil hat on!
It was abso-bloody-loutly 100% nothing to do with the fact that I had gotten bored of reading 88 posts of repetitive drivel
We indeed do love and worship GSI here.
Thats why we all upped sticks and left, so we could admire them better from a distance.
I shall now drive to work in my new car funded by the Epic Black Ops fund
from where I will attempt to plot on how I will circumvent nalikings vast intellect and superior deduction skills with my mind control ray in an attempt to bring down the bastion of all that is good and honest in this world, that being csports...
[edit]Foiled damn it, he has his tinfoil hat on!