UT2004's devastated community and UT2007's future

[hal]

That would be Epic.

 

[naliking]

Most of your posts have nothing to do with facts but are just your theories. You've taken a handful of things and tried to link them, adding in a hidden motivation, of which you know nothing about. Keep trying though.

Oh, and yes, the vast majority of people who buy UT games do not play online. Certainly not every day, possibly not every month. Figure out the sales versus the online numbers. Yet again, another conjecture on your part.

I would call csports numbers and counting UT2004 players by hand concrete facts

Just because you buy a game does not mean you are playing it (more than once). Everyone that I know that bought UT2003 and UT2004 are not playing these games offline often because the single-player aspect is poor and consider the fact that most of them actually disliked both games. The rapid decline in UT2004 online numbers despite the game being relatively stable and bug free will also give a reflection on whether people are playing it offline. If they hate it online because they hate the gameplay(when playing conditions are ideal) then chances are they hate if offline even more

You're wrong about that. There's not much to the single-player Tournament, but many people, myself included, continue to play primarily or only "practice" matches. The UT series' bot AI is quite simply the best FPS AI there is.

Read my reply to Hal. I also did acknowledge that a few people will be practicing against bots (probably mainly newcomers to the series)

There is no misconception. UT(number) is popular.
Popularity=Selling lots of games and people playing game and liking it!
Popularity doesn't = What Gamespy says.

Yes UT is popular compared to Big Rigs or maybe Tribes Vengeance but it is no longer popular comapared to other online shooters in the top 10.
UT2003's popularity is what devastated the Unreal Series. Tons of people bought it and apparently most of them hated it - LOL! . There is good popularity and bad popularity.

If you ask me, I'd say the only reason why the Unreal Series still continues to exist is still largely due to people's perception of UT99 even though not many people are playing it today. But amazingly it has at least as many players as UT2004, if not more

 

[Taleweaver]

I would call csports numbers and counting UT2004 players by hand concrete facts

Just because you buy a game does not mean you are playing it (more than once). Everyone that I know that bought UT2003 and UT2004 are not playing these games offline often because the single-player aspect is poor and consider the fact that most of them actually disliked both games. The rapid decline in UT2004 online numbers despite the game being relatively stable and bug free will also give a reflection on whether people are playing it offline. If they hate it online because they hate the gameplay(when playing conditions are ideal) then chances are they hate if offline even more

In contradiction with your opinion (you don't believe that even comes close to a fact as well, do you?), Epic believes most players still stick to the offline section. Now before you bring in the argument that these aren't objective opinions either, consider the following:
* it is in no way relevant to their sales (are ppl more likely to buy a game that's mostly singleplayer based? No, because unlike online, it DOES NOT MATTER how many players are out there playing offline at that time)
* they are using their opinion to create a stronger singleplayer experience for UT2007. Now why would they do that if - according to you - players tend to buy it, play it once and then forget about the game?
* you and your buddies might think the singleplayer campaigns are poor, but can you think of another FPS with a bot AI like this? I'm not saying that they are a good equivalent for a real human, but compared to the bots in other games, you can't deny that UT's bots are much more humanlike than the others.

Oh, and with "singleplayer", do you mean the campaigns or practice matches as well? The mutators, gametypes and different maps can keep you occupied for a very long time. Add in the downloadable mods (with bot support), mutators and maps and you can keep yourself happy even longer!

Yes UT is popular compared to Big Rigs or maybe Tribes Vengeance but it is no longer popular comapared to other online shooters in the top 10.

Ah, is that what your point is all about? Yes, that's true. I mean...what were we thinking? UT2004 isn't popular. Quake isn't popular. In fact...there is only 1 game that deserves the term "popular", and that's counterstrike. Forget about all the other games that ever will be created, no matter how good-looking, innovative or creative it is, because everyone should buy whatever everyone else is playing. As such, counterstrike will become immortal, and the servers will remain full until doom's day.

 

[nuttella]

Just because you buy a game does not mean you are playing it (more than once). Everyone that I know that bought UT2003 and UT2004 are not playing these games offline often because the single-player aspect is poor and consider the fact that most of them actually disliked both games.

So everyone that you know includes no one on these forums. I think what you mean is "Everyone that I agree with".

Yes, UT was a better game. Get over it.

 

[UTGirl]

I`ve never played UT2k4 online, and will (probably) never do. I`m with the UT-series since 2000 and never played a single match online!

Mostly I play with the bots (they are really good, of course they can`t act like human beeings) and it`s pretty funny.
Or I play with Friends in LAN, I like that more. If someone frags me, I can take instand revenge

It`t just more fun knowing the people IRL, I think. Internet ist just so..... unpersonal

There are tons of d/ls availabe which are making the game more exciting! (mods, gametypes, maps, skins, models, and so on....)

That`s just my opinion, but I don`t think that Epic betrayes here with the number of people online.

 

[Nosnos]

UT was a better game by the standards you had when it was released... release UT today and it wouldnt be popular, at least nowhere near as popular as it was in it's glory days... No futuristic shooter will be able to overtake the "realistic" shooters out there... unless there is a major swing in the preferences of the avarage gamer from realistic to unrealistic...

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I would call csports numbers and counting UT2004 players by hand concrete facts

I still doubt that you have hand counted players. Do you even own UT2004?

 

[naliking]

In contradiction with your opinion (you don't believe that even comes close to a fact as well, do you?), Epic believes most players still stick to the offline section. Now before you bring in the argument that these aren't objective opinions either, consider the following:
* it is in no way relevant to their sales (are ppl more likely to buy a game that's mostly singleplayer based? No, because unlike online, it DOES NOT MATTER how many players are out there playing offline at that time)
* they are using their opinion to create a stronger singleplayer experience for UT2007. Now why would they do that if - according to you - players tend to buy it, play it once and then forget about the game?
* you and your buddies might think the singleplayer campaigns are poor, but can you think of another FPS with a bot AI like this? I'm not saying that they are a good equivalent for a real human, but compared to the bots in other games, you can't deny that UT's bots are much more humanlike than the others.

If Epic said that then they are wrong or you misintrepreted what they said, and what I remember hearing them say. The fact is most people who buy a game with an added online component do not play online. This is or was a fact of almost any game (except maybe games built only for online play only, or games which have extremely bad single-player or extremely bad bot match components.)

So most people who bought Unreal Tournament 2004 did not play online compared to those who did or do. That does not mean they are playing the game offline! As I told Hal, if a game is built mainly for online play and people stop playing online even when conditions are great, then this will probably reflect what is happening offline unless the game has a great single-player mode (not offline bot matches).

In UT2004, bot matches offline are similar to online play so in UT2004 you can be sure if tons of people stop playing online because they hate the gameplay then that is probably what is happening offline

UT was a better game by the standards you had when it was released... release UT today and it wouldnt be popular, at least nowhere near as popular as it was in it's glory days... No futuristic shooter will be able to overtake the "realistic" shooters out there... unless there is a major swing in the preferences of the avarage gamer from realistic to unrealistic...

Actually I agree with you and have said the exact same thing in the past. A Sci-fi shooter done properly with changes can compete with realistic shooters. Of course if UT2004 was UT99 with only a graphics upgrade there would be a lot more people playing UT today since at least most of the original fan base would not have ditched the series. Instead we now have UT2004 struggling just to make it to 14th place in online shooter popularity.

UT2007 may be better, and I hope this time it's not going to blatantly rip off the work done by people in the mod community without crediting them if they do.

Unreal Series is becoming known as quite the rip off artists. I remember when UT2004 initially took Halo's warthog design with almost no changes. Good thing Epic was working with microsoft and that Bungie is owned by microsoft. And what's with the UT2007 playstation 3 demonstration. It looks like it was staged directly from Terminator 2

I still doubt that you have hand counted players. Do you even own UT2004?

Well if you doubt me then believe Discord's hand counting verification. It's not too hard to count 800 or less player's at certain times . If we were talking counter-strike now that would be a different story

 

[Selerox]

Fanboy is a fanboy is fanboy...

Or, you could just shut up about it maybe? For once? Ever?

 

[Discord]

Re: Fanboy is a fanboy is a fanboy...

Or, you could just shut up about it maybe? For once? Ever?

Hehe, not likely.

Here's some more "simple math:" "I liked one Unreal game" + "UT sequels sucked" + {while ("Epic = teh eViL"), eViL += 1} + every third post is from this guy while threadstarter is nowhere in sight equals...

drumroll please...

that most ridiculous of all creatures, the attention- whoring disgruntled fanboy. Worst kind of fanboy that ever was. The kind who, rather than sensibly saying "what a shame" and toddling off to play some other game, keeps hanging around to whine and pule about what a dirty disgrace the whole thing has become and to shout, "Look at me! Look at meeeee! Behold, for I am the aggreived! O whither justice...?"


And that's the last tidbit I'm feeding this troll. You guys can keep stroking its ego if you like, as for me I'll be happy to see this thread roll off the page.

 

[PsychoMoggieBagpuss]

What discord said, this is getting boring.
Or at least stop giving him the nails so he can keep sticking himself back up on his cross...

 

[shadow_dragon]

[mygot]Naliking

If Epic said that then they are wrong or you misintrepreted what they said, and what I remember hearing them say.

Lol! You don't know what they said ro whether they asid it but your still sure that they're wrong regardless. Seriously is this some hgue ellaborate joke?

The fact is most people who buy a game with an added online component do not play online. This is or was a fact of almost any game (except maybe games built only for online play only, or games which have extremely bad single-player or extremely bad bot match components.)

This bit is interesting, probably true and just about mkes sense though doesn't mean much. We've already been saying for pages that a large majority of UT players do so offline and thus why online stats aren't a realistic figure to determine overall popularity.

So most people who bought Unreal Tournament 2004 did not play online compared to those who did or do.

Right yes, most people who have UT play fofline compared to those who do.

That does not mean they are playing the game offline!

What?..........

As I told Hal, if a game is built mainly for online play and people stop playing online even when conditions are great, then this will probably reflect what is happening offline unless the game has a great single-player mode (not offline bot matches).

It's not a good technique to debate with words like "probably."
Presumably you hand counted those that play offline too, you seem to know a lot about them.

In UT2004, bot matches offline are similar to online play so in UT2004 you can be sure if tons of people stop playing online because they hate the gameplay then that is probably what is happening offline

No it's not like online play, at all, rules maybe the same but the tactics, strategies and entire gameplay are entirely different.

UT2007 may be better, and I hope this time it's not going to blatantly rip off the work done by people in the mod community without crediting them if they do.

Irrelevant and... vaguely stupid. I thought you said you weren't here merely to slag the game off?

Unreal Series is becoming known as quite the rip off artists. I remember when UT2004 initially took Halo's warthog design with almost no changes. Good thing Epic was working with microsoft and that Bungie is owned by microsoft. And what's with the UT2007 playstation 3 demonstration. It looks like it was staged directly from Terminator 2

Another paragraph of made up nonsense. The warthog "ripoff" never even made it into the game officially.

o·pin·ion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: “The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion” (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law. A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

fact - Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.

(Edit- Totally agree with Discord. jsut his post occured during my typing mine.)

 

[naliking]

Hehe, not likely.

Here's some more "simple math:" "I liked one Unreal game" + "UT sequels sucked" + {while ("Epic = teh eViL"), eViL += 1} + every third post is from this guy while threadstarter is nowhere in sight equals...

drumroll please...

that most ridiculous of all creatures, the attention- whoring disgruntled fanboy. Worst kind of fanboy that ever was. The kind who, rather than sensibly saying "what a shame" and toddling off to play some other game, keeps hanging around to whine and pule about what a dirty disgrace the whole thing has become and to shout, "Look at me! Look at meeeee! Behold, for I am the aggreived! O whither justice...?"

Come now Discord, take a look at the thread. Apart from my first post and this one, every post I made is in direct reply to someone who quoted me. It's the same thing that happened in the thread where someone was dissing Half-Life 2 and claimed it to be inferior to UT2004 engine. I make an unpopular post and then people just keep quoting me, therefore I am forced to respond

I'm not disgruntled at all. Whether the Unreal Series turns out great or not is irrelevant to me. If it turns out good I'll play it and post about how good it is. I am not a fanboy of any game because games don't take up much of my time. The problem is you and the biased fanboys seem to have an emotional link with the game and want to attack anyone who says anything negative about it. So much so that you misconstrue humor for an attack against the game.

Just remember, constructive critcism is a good thing

Oh and shadow_dragon, I am aware of one post an Epic employee made specifically with regard to offline numbers and it was that most people who bought UT99 never even ventured online AT ALL and that their goal was to get them online. Something like that anyway. He never said they were playing it offline.

Well since I'm not wanted here I think it's time for me to leave again
.......until someone posts false information

 

[T2A`]

Atari made UT2004.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

This thread is lame. I like UT2004. Alot of other people like it. I play with them. End of story.

 

[SiN-BiN]

I`ve never played UT2k4 online, and will (probably) never do. I`m with the UT-series since 2000 and never played a single match online!

Mostly I play with the bots (they are really good, of course they can`t act like human beeings) and it`s pretty funny.
Or I play with Friends in LAN, I like that more. If someone frags me, I can take instand revenge

There are tons of d/ls availabe which are making the game more exciting! (mods, gametypes, maps, skins, models, and so on....)

That`s just my opinion, but I don`t think that Epic betrayes here with the number of people online.

This is mostly how it is for me.
I have been playing since 2000, and I have played offline that whole time. Only just now am I starting to play online although I still play against bots mostly.

 

[DeeperShade]

In response to the first post:
If you bought it solely because you thought it had a massive following, then I have little sympathy. Some of the greatest games ever made are little known about.

In response to the 'epic is evil, gamespy are corrupt, INA is trying to take over the corp-political world' style posts:

 

[Yoshiro]

the UT2k4 community

Ok, these are just a few words from me, a guy who hangs around the UT2k4 modding community far to much, and plays ONS every once in awhile.

While I can't speak much for the main game, I can tell you a little about the modding community. It is there and it is strong. Even long after the end of the MSU, there are still mods releasing, and even new mods being announced. And if you want proof that people play the mods out there, go back to csports.

Red Orchestra has thousands of unique players, and other mods such as Alien Swarm have communities that keep creating more content for their favorite mod (ie: new campains) even though the main team behind that mod switched development over to Half Life 2. Also older mods are still being supported by their devs. Troopers (even though nobody is currently playing it) is commited to making their mod exciting and fun before they leave it alone. Red Orchestra is still releasing patches for its mod even though they are working on a retail game. Strike Force is doing the same, working on a retail game, but also supporting an active community for their mod version.

And allready I have seen people starting to form mod teams for UT2k7, and UnWheel has mentioned that they are here for the long haul (and plan to move to UT2k7). I'm sure they will not be the only mod.

I will admit, there aren't as many players in UT2k4 as say, counter Strike, but that does not mean there are not many players. With the hundreds of mods and mutators that have been released for UT2k4 some of them are quiet spread out among various gametypes and total conversions. Yes, that means some of those mods only have a handful of players, but some of those mods, such as Alien Swarm and Air Buccaneers, you only need a handful of players to have a really fun and exciting game! Pirates in air baloons, swinging from air ship to air ship, as friends in one room pilot a ship against their friends in the next, or a group of friends setting up a server to go at it in Alien Swarm as they traverse the campain mode.

And Epic always supports its community. Even months to years after the game has been released, Epic is still giving patches to the game to make it better and fix problems that arise. And in the modding community they have always been there to lend support and give feedback to the teams. And they are allready gearing up for this same support for UT2k7. Also, they have allready talked with us, telling us what they did wrong in UT2k3/4 and listening to the community as they build UT2k7.

Some people will disagree with me I"m sure, but this is my opinion as I see it. I hang around several mod teams, chip in with a few, beta a few others. If it has been released on UT2k3/4 I have probably played it (if its a mod) be it good, bad, or ugly. But let me make one thing clear, many of the mod teams are very talented and I expect even greater things out of them in the future.

 

[shadow_dragon]

Oh and shadow_dragon, I am aware of one post an Epic employee made specifically with regard to offline numbers and it was that most people who bought UT99 never even ventured online AT ALL and that their goal was to get them online. Something like that anyway. He never said they were playing it offline.

Offline numbers = numbers of people PLAYING it offline. Otherwise why would he say it. It's implicit.

Terms like fanboy shouldn't be thrown around, it's counter productive and pointless and yes that comment is aimed at Discord too. It's more or less an insult and i'm pretty sure offensive behaviour is frowned upon outside of "off topic".

Just remember constructive criticism IS a good thing.
But your point isn't a critcism, nor is it constructive. Your making up facts and suggesting conspiracies. THAT is why people have been retorting you, it's just plain silly.

 

[hal]

If Epic said that then they are wrong or you misintrepreted what they said, and what I remember hearing them say. The fact is most people who buy a game with an added online component do not play online. This is or was a fact of almost any game (except maybe games built only for online play only, or games which have extremely bad single-player or extremely bad bot match components.)

So most people who bought Unreal Tournament 2004 did not play online compared to those who did or do. That does not mean they are playing the game offline! As I told Hal, if a game is built mainly for online play and people stop playing online even when conditions are great, then this will probably reflect what is happening offline unless the game has a great single-player mode (not offline bot matches).

In UT2004, bot matches offline are similar to online play so in UT2004 you can be sure if tons of people stop playing online because they hate the gameplay then that is probably what is happening offline

Yet again, all of this totally based on YOUR opinion and the people that you know. Therefore it must be true. Right? What was that about "logic" and "false statements" again?

Actually I agree with you and have said the exact same thing in the past. A Sci-fi shooter done properly with changes can compete with realistic shooters. Of course if UT2004 was UT99 with only a graphics upgrade there would be a lot more people playing UT today since at least most of the original fan base would not have ditched the series. Instead we now have UT2004 struggling just to make it to 14th place in online shooter popularity.

And yet again. What makes you think that new people would be automagically attracted to a graphically updated UT? Did it occur to you that the people that are playing UT2004 might possibly like the game?

UT2007 may be better, and I hope this time it's not going to blatantly rip off the work done by people in the mod community without crediting them if they do.

Unreal Series is becoming known as quite the rip off artists. I remember when UT2004 initially took Halo's warthog design with almost no changes. Good thing Epic was working with microsoft and that Bungie is owned by microsoft. And what's with the UT2007 playstation 3 demonstration. It looks like it was staged directly from Terminator 2

OMG A JEEP! A ROBOT! RIPOFF WTFBBQLOL! I suppose that the Goliath (that's the tank, btw) is a ripoff of some military sim? You're really reaching now, and your true intent in this thread is shining through.

Well if you doubt me then believe Discord's hand counting verification. It's not too hard to count 800 or less player's at certain times . If we were talking counter-strike now that would be a different story

Since you mentioned CounterStrike again, I guess we can all assume that Unreal Tournament is a total failure of a game since it doesn't have the same online numbers. But of course... that has nothing to do with the genre does it?