UT 2k3/2k4 RainbowSix mute would like some testers

[chuckus]

Meowcat Gave it a spin. I really like it although YARM TD doesn't seem to want to let me lean and there's no weapon selection menu like it used to have. The lean in YARM is PERFECT! It's just like R6

The weapon sounds are a HUGE improvement. I always forget to mention I have all of the R6 sounds on my computer. I used them to change the sounds in C4 to make them a little more lively. The problem is they come out quiet in UT once loaded. Dunno why. Could you let me know how to get them to sound louder and I'll send you the sounds for the Machine gun/ Mp5/ Nato 556/AK and Nato 762. I also have the grenade sounds and all that. Let me know.

Edit: Ok last fanboy post of the day. I love it. YARM TD works great with the assault mode. The bots are smart. Use the terrain well and the conefire makes it fair in that they sometimes score lucky shots from far but in general are not as effective as human players.

What are the included weapons in YARM TD? So far I've only seen the MK23, M16, Mp5, HK69 and Robar. Since the loadout menu doesn't work I've only seen what I can pickup from the weapon racks. I checked the readme but the info on TD is quite limited.

Also the lean function doesn't work with TD as mentioned before.

That's my report

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Damn... Filefront is ALWAYS in maintenance when i try to dl it... can´t download it, if Meowcat or Chuckus could send YARM through yousendit.com it would be very appreciatted... does it have or not the SP/CCOP map and the chopper in this package???

 

[meowcat]

YARM= Yet Another Real-life Mod

Sorry about the leaning in YARM TD, I disabled it for the time being 'cause the network BSP visibility bug is still there. Also I was originally going for R6 style movement (iirc I still included the option to prevent movement while crouched in TD...)

Gonna upload the TD Vehicle pack in a bit, will update here when I have. The SP stuff will be uploaded as well, but may be Thursday since I have to test it a bit (I have written in network compatible code, but have not gotten a chancce to test it yet).

To test out all of the TD weapons included type "exec getyarmtd.txt" in the console (without quotes) to spawn all of the included weapons. I had not yet set up the weapon select menu yet (*adds to todo list*)

To test out all of the YARM weapons included type "exec getyarm.txt" in the console (without quotes) to spawn all of the YARM weapons.

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Oh boy, the new guns are awesome, can´t you do a mutator that allows TD weapons to be aimed with the iron sights (as TD SMGs and Rifles)? They´re so cool!!! And the sounds are great too!
Waiting anxiously for the TD vehicles updated and the new map...

[edit]: how do I use the parachute and medic syring? Can´t find the menu bind for them in the Input setting window...

 

[chuckus]

Did some more testing after work.

If you're in single fire mode and switch fire to full auto at the same time as shooting the weapon can no longer fire. This can be fixed by switching fire back to single shot and back to full auto without firing at the same time.

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Oh.. i couldn´t the rope nor the parachute cus I was using UT2K4 "activate item" when I should use the YARM activate item key... doubt resolved! ;-) Using the rope is a blast! Kinda human yo-yo XD nice!

Meow, can you post your map DM-HUT-Zanzibar2k4_v4.zip too? I got curious about it when i read the YARM´s Atari forum...

 

[meowcat]

Here you go for the Zanzibar Remake: http://files.filefront.com/DM_HUT_Zanzibar2k4_v4zip/;4933058;;/fileinfo.html

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Niiiice map! Great fun... now, we´re all waiting for the updated TD vehicles and the SP/COOP map! ;-)
Great job, Meow!

(YARM/TD are greatly played in custom maps, as Angelheart´s 2017, ONS-Spillingrad, ONS_Pipeline and Red Dragon temple(TDM)

 

[meowcat]

Here are the vehicles. I still need to polish this quite a bit, but its a start:
http://files.filefront.com/TDW_Vehicles110_nonumodzip/;4938253;;/fileinfo.html

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Niiice!!! but the MI4 needs some beefing up, it should fire unguided rockets, as it has an rocket laucher in its left wing (as the Raptor it substitutes, the chopper should have the hability to fire rockets as alt fire ;-)
[edit]: I hope we get a Merkava (or Abahams or Challenger) tank to substitute UT2K4 ugly tank in the next update of TD Vehicles... ;-D

Counting days to try the SP/COOP now...... 8D

 

[chuckus]

coolio meowcat. I gotta go downtown and give my lady her bus pass and when I get back.... it's on

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Meowcat!!! We´re still waiting for that SP/COOP map u were developping for YARM... don´t forget to post it when its done! ;-)

 

[meowcat]

Added some shots of some single player / coop maps I have been working on (a remake of Cold Thunder from R6, and another). Also, I've been working on a fix to the lean bug that does not kill network performance.

 

[Corporal_Lib [BR]]

Release them as soon as they are "releaseable" ;-)
Where are the screenshots???
Meow, could you work on a missile or at least unguided rocket for the Mil Mi 4 chopper??? They have rocket launcher under their winglets but they have no use at the present version... ;-)

 

[meowcat]

@Psychomorph: I don't suppose I could ask a small favor of you? For the SP/COOP portion of YARM I will essentially be going the total conversion route of coding, so loss of compatibilty with other stuff is not as critical. I would like to implement the damage system that you suggested. I know you had mentioned adding some probability of a fatal/incapacitating wound, armor piercing vs not, muzzle energy etc. Could you post some sample numbers for the below ammo types that I could use when creating this system? They don't have to be exact, just some rough probabilities and numbers.
7.62x51 (.308)
5.56 (.223)
.45 ACP
.40
9mm

I have added code that keeps track of players shots against other players. The code uses the collision cylinder to determine if it was a shot to the legs, arms, torso, front vs. back and could be used to scale damage accordingly. Skeletal location based damage only works for the head because of differences during network games and oddities of the getClosestBone function. Once the I get the damage system ready, I will be able to finalize the weapon code in the TD portion of YARM (and SP/Coop) and also release the three alpha singleplayer maps I have made.

As for player movement, I have the dashing ability added. Depending on which equipment/uniform is being worn, the enemy AI will be able to hear your footsteps when dashing. I have tested out removing the jump ability altogether and just replacing it with the climb ability, it actually works nicely.

@Corporal Lib[BR]: Like I said above, as soon as I get the damage system worked out, I am gonna release what I have so far for the maps. There will be later updates though as I still have a lot of tweaking to do to the enemy AI code.

And yes, a guided rocket will be added to the hound at a later time.

@Chuckus: Got the leaning back in, bots will actually try to shoot at you now, and does not require me to override the network optimizations. I will probably not allow leaning while moving though (as it is really awkward, at least for me, in real life).

 

[Psychomorph]

Coop, awesome.

You speak about leg, arm, torso damage. That's good, but I find it always odd to get a shot that just scratches the skin and kills me, because it hit the torso collision cylinder.
I don't know how far that can be established, but I thought about hit models inside the actual model, that define the injury areas and so the injury types, because a torso hit, that just injures tissue is not a torso hit, that goes through lungs and breaks the spinal column or whatever.

Look at the attached picture, it isn't very correct, because the "naked" human body matters, not the clothes and the thick vest.


1) Head, Throat, Neck damage Model
- Lethal (Instant death).


2) Fatal Injury damage Model
- Lethal (Instant death), incapacitating (Soon death, incapability).

This damage model is interior, so all hits lead the damage directly to fatal areas:
- In the chest it is mostly lethal, sometimes incapacitating.
- In the abdomen it is incapacitating.
- The legs can be incapacited by breaking the bones, damaging the kneejoints, injuring the aorta which will cause fast bleeding.

Damage effect:
- Lethal kills instantly.
- Incapacitating brings you down fast, but you have a very short ammount of control of 1 or 4 seconds (random, the value 0 would be instant death) before total incapability, where you can still fire, only walk if it comes to movement (few steps) and still be a threat to your enemy (known, that 9mm and 5.56x45mm do not always kill fast, even if hit into the chest various times).

7.62x51mm (.308) = 80/20 Lethal/Incapable (80% probability to be an instant kill, etc).
5.56x45mm (.223) = 60/40 L/I
.45 ACP = 50/50 L/I
.40 S&W = 40/60 L/I
9mm = 30/70 L/I
12 Gauge 00Buckshot = 10/90 L/I per pellet
12 Gauge Slug = 50/50 L/I
> 7.62x51mm = 90/10 - 100 L/I

Gore effect:
- Lethal causes large blood "puddles".
- Incapaciting causes blood on clothes, blood trails on the ground. Blood "puddle" when dead.


3) Serious Injury damage Model
- Serious injury (Fleshwound), two effects (heavy/light).

This damage model affects you if hits go to the rather outside areas of your body, or not deep enough. It is not lethal and not directly incapacitating, but affects you negatively (aim, movement, speed, etc):
- Hits to the torso cause pain and can affect your speed, endurance.
- Hits to the legs cause pain and affect your speed, movement, inertial behavior.
- Hits to the arms can decrease weapon effectivity (reloading speed, weapon changing speed, accuracy).

Two random effects when beeing hit:
- Light: Due to shock you "don't notice" the injury and keep up your speed, weapon is pointed forward, pointed off, and unaimed, but you still can fight back. After few seconds you feel the pain and your physical abilities are affected dependant on where you got hit.
- Heavy: Same as light, but your weapon goes low, you can move for cover but barely fight back.

Gore effect:
- Causes blood on clothes, blood trails on the ground.

A large ammount of hits causes a "Fatal Injury" effect.


4) Light Injury damage Model
- Light injury (Touching shot, light caliber to vest).

This damage model is the outer tissue area, or light caliber "punches" to the vest. Generally it is similar to point 3), but affects you less negaive, it can affect your movement and weapon accuracy, but less serious, you keep your speed mostly, accuracy doesn't drop to much, weapons can be kept shouldered, but will be unaimed.

Gore effect:
- A touching shot causes little blood on clothes.

A large ammount of hits causes a "Serious Injury" effect. To the vest also, but without blood.



Armor
Different calibers behave different.
- Rifle rounds go straight through a IIv kevlar vest and IIIa vest (no plate).
- A single Rifle round cause a punch and trauma hitting a IIIa plate (--> 4. Light Injury damage Model). Various can cause "3) Serious Injury" and make you combat incapable.
- Pistol and shotgun calibers cause punches, to many can draw you combat incapable (no blood). A IIv vest is less protective than a IIIa.
- A pistol round to the helmet may be stopped, maybe more than one time and cause light, or serious damage, to many simply make you combat incapable (to much trauma).



Maybe the multi damage models are a bit to much, we can think about a simpler system if necessary.

For inspiration, you can check out the Ghost Recon (1) demo (if you haven't the game).
BTW, check out the E3 footage from Rainbow Six: Vegas.

 

[Psychomorph]

Something about movement.
As discussed a normal-walk/fast-walk(tactical run sort of) toggle is the best simulation of how operatives move. The faster run would be a temporal option (hold key), but only in some cases, heavy armored operatives should even not be able to run at all, their fast-walk speed is even slightly slower.
A medium armored one would be able to run a bit, but it should affect him (stamina, breathing), because the fast walk is allready a fairly good allround movement.
The light weight recon gear would rather have the run as a useful option, for snipers to change the position fast, etc.

I thin the fast walk should also be hearable, but in a smaller radius.


Something about weapon handling.
I allways thought about a special weapon handling type, mainly I thought about some Special Forces Recon game. That might disattract a bit, but I think it is a more natural and intuitive weapon handling.

You never hold a weapon up, to the shoulder longer than necessary. In a game where you adjust this position, you have a bad "feeling" for that, even if they is arm fatigue, which actually should not be exeggerated at all.
I thought about, that the lowready position (weapon pointed down, as you see the R6 operatives do standartly) is where the weapon is held at standartly. HOLDING the aim key the weapon is pointed forward, so if you release the key the weapon moves back to the low position.

I know how odd that seems, but I experienced myself, that you can hold a rifle, even a fairly heavy one pretty long at the shoulder, but you never do this longer than really needed, this I would like to see in a game, where you can hold the gun up if needed long, without weird, overexeggerated arm fatigue, but since it requires you to hold a key, you would do it only if needed really, if entering a room, etc. That would look like the real deal actually.
That system seems simply more natural and intuitive to me, I'm keen on try that out.

Pushing the aim key of course aims the weapon. Since pistols are held up and aimed allready sort of, pushing the aim key wont have an effect.


Something about reflex sights.
I noticed, that most reflex sights have a "higher" position on the weapon. I mean if you hold an iron sight weapon to the shoulder, you look over the sights with both eyes open, if this weapon would have a reflex sight you would see the operative holding the weapon at the exact same position, but looking through the red dot scope (due to its position), still both eyes open.
That's why I think, that a weapon with a reflex sight should be aimed when holding the aim key, while a weapon with ironsights have the same position, but you look over the iron sights. Hope you know what I mean, you simply can't compare aiming ironsights with "aiming" reflex sights.

The dot should be very transparent, because it is the image of one eye. You should still be able to push the aim key to aim the reflex sight with one eye (if aiming will have a small zoom it will be usefull/needed).

When performung a run, or receive a hit, the dot disappears.

---


Yeah, remove jumping, but also make the climbing slower.

Yes, please no leaning when moving.

 

[zeep]

Just reading the posts.

What if a payer wants / has to jump over a gap? If you take out jumping that will be impossible to do. Maps would also feel very synthetic if there are deliberatly no gaps etc whereas a player would use a jump.

Holding a key to aim, i understand what you want to acomplish Psych. I'm a fan of realistic and tactical play but i think i would get tired of holding a key to aim. Aiming is something you'd do very often in-game so making that harder to do will have serious impact on the gameplay and enjoyment of the game.

Me personally, if i'm honest, i think i would make an alias to toggle it because i find it difficult to hold two keys down on my mouse and possibly a 3rd for firing were i to walk and fire. My binds: RMB=forward, MiddleMB=Aim, LMB=Fire.

 

[Psychomorph]

Just to clarify, I speak about highready when holding the aim key, releasing goes to lowready. Only reflex sights and pistols are "aimed" instead of highready, because you can keep both eyes open.
To aim iron sights, scopes and also reflex sight with one eye you push the aim key.
When sights aimed, you hold the aim key again, to take it to highready, releasing the key would put the weapon back to lowready.


I know what you mean Zeep, I thought about that all the time. That system would probably require a change of configs, same as I had to change my controls for Raven Shield/Ghost Recon (stance up/stance down with wheel instead Lshift for crouch and Alt for prone), which was actually more comfortable for this kind of setup than my original preferrable config.

I know that this system sounds disattracting, and I sadly have no chance to test it in a game to be sure if it can work well.

My reasons are, that it limmits the aim key clicking, but on other hand you need to hold it more often of course.
In INF you have the sprint button, that automatical puts down the weapon, because a player wouldn't care about weapon positions if he needs to flee.
With highready as a holding key function you could use the sprint key for a fast tactical advancing by keeping holding the weapon at the highready, but at the same time could use this key to run for cover, where you would release the aim key on your own, briging the gun to a low position and save your stamina and you even don't need to think about to change the weapon position, because you do it intuitive by releasing the aim key.
That was my thought. I would love to try that out.

--

As for jumping. It depends on the gap. Most games have a feature, where just walking/running over a gap makes you move over it. The "fast run" feature could have the same effect.
A heavy armored operative can't jump, in YARM it could be so because he can't run fast.
A light weight recon could use a jump over a gap, because hes light and in a good shape, but note that his running speed is the best of all operatives (due to less weight).
So, it is the running speed that can define how far you can "move" over a gap.

I don't expect an operative to jump over a 2 meter wide gap, at most 1,5 meter, which could allow a light armored operative to "move" over it by using the run, it takes you just a slightly wider step, which wouldn't really be so noticeable with a runnning animation.

The run would be the only feature that would allow to jump (move) over gaps. The fast walk would only allow you to move over gaps where you could even just step over using a walk.
Since the heavy aromored operative can't run, he can't "jump", he just could pass a gap that requires a simple step (max 70cm). A meduim operative could move over a 1 meter wide gap, because his running speed is limitted. A light recon could "jump" over a gap of 1,5 meters, because his running speed is faster.

 

[mat69]

Just to clarify, I speak about highready when holding the aim key, releasing goes to lowready. Only reflex sights and pistols are "aimed" instead of highready, because you can keep both eyes open.
To aim iron sights, scopes and also reflex sight with one eye you push the aim key.
When sights aimed, you hold the aim key again, to take it to highready, releasing the key would put the weapon back to lowready.

It's really no problem to have both eyes opened with scopes with low magnification, like the x1.5 of the AUG.