Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

[Mister_Prophet]

You are probably right. However, Given the fractured nature of the christian religion, probably less traumatised than you think. One of the most interesting, and at times amusing, qualities of christianity is the fact that it seems not to be one thing at all. If the biblical scholars were of the catholic church, the protestants would be no more likely to panic than your average atheist, and so on.

I understand something not far removed happened in the middle ages, (i forget the year, it hardly matters though). People were convinced that the end of times was just around the corner. I seem to recall there was quite an uncertainty when the time arrived and passed that they were expecting. Still, what with plagues, and fires and so on, it's not so suprising they expected to see Satan at any moment...

That is a good point. But People in the middle ages and people living in the twenty first century are two very different populations in a very different world. I still think it would effect the religious side alot more than the other.

 

[Chrysaor]

Prove to me there's any good RF.

Judgment from humans means everything in establishing the good and evil of a religion.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

Lets take it the other way then.

Prove to me there aint evil.

Not sure how this applies to the thread topic...but who am I kidding, this thread is already derailed

Proving or disproving evil is something I can't do (and nobody in this thread either I think) and wouldn't want to be on the side trying to gather the evidence to support or disprove it. I can only give you what I think about it, since depending on who you ask you will get a different answer.

Depending on your definition of the word "evil" it could be relative to a-l-o-t of things. The religious definition is based on either the opposite to its teachings (i.e. bad shiit that happens) or in reference to the "dark one" on the opposite side of whatever good/evil spectrum your faith dictates. Though you don't have to be religious to believe in evil. People use it all the time, whether it be a cop show or a news broadcast or in a presidential speech. You can be an atheist who believes in nothing spiritual whatsoever and still believe that some people are evil.

Basically the word evil, and this is just what I think, is a human way of categorizing all the really nasty, dark things our kind does to each other on occasion in a single word that has universal meaning and can easily identify these terrible acts that we cannot possibly define any other way. Now I myself happen to believe that the word evil isn't a smart word. In my often flawed opinion, it kind of removes the human responsibility of these horrible things we associate with the word to a point that we forget that it is only human beings that are doing these things. Morgan Freeman talked about this idea in the movie Seven , which is a really a cool flick that totally rocked my nuts.

So I can't prove something I don't think exists. To me it is just a word that can be used as an adjective or a noun or what have you to explain something really bad when no other word seems up to the task.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

And yes, I apologize for sounding like Vision in that last post. Vague and elusive.

I admit I cannot disprove the effectivness or inefficiency of a single word without sounding like a fu<king G.I.Joe end clip.

 

[Evil_Cope]

I do not believe in evil.
Right and Wrong, wise and unwise. Ill, perverted, good-hearted etc etc. fair enough.
Evil is a myth, nothing more.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

Lets take it the other way then.

Prove to me there aint evil.

You don’t disprove abstract concepts. Prove I can’t fly like superman. Prove the earth won’t be hit by a huge comet before the end of the century. Prove one billion people won’t die within the next 50 years from a pandemic.

It doesn’t work that way. But chances are I can’t fly like superman. There is a chance that the earth will be hit by a comet before the end of the century, and a chance that a billion people will die from a pandemic within the next 50 years. You have to use your noodle for something besides keeping your ears separated.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

You mean..there is a chance I will grow up to be Batman?

 

[QUALTHWAR]

damn straight

 

[Nachimir]

It happened for Qualthwar. Your dreams can come true.

 

[ViSion]

He is speaking of intolerance, not being intolerant. Besides, you're being overly simple when you say "this is how blah blah got started" Intolerance is a human trait, not a religous one. We can make the same vieled comment about any and every major conflict in our history and pretend it means something.

See! This is how World War Two started!

Intolerance of your fellow man!

*rolls eyes at intolerant person*

He's making a good point in this post. There are plenty of intolerant atheists or whoever who seem incensed at the thought of someone worshipping a god, in an age where the possibility of such things remains beyond the understanding and obsevational powers of science. The length of this thread is probably a testament to that.

I was like this when I was younger, but now it seems pointless to argue (or just sit back and act smug while poking holes in thier logic) constantly in the hopes that you'll get someone to deny thier faith. It appears to cause more rifts than anything else (same goes for intolerant religous types) If we (people) have broached extroardinary new ground since the age of reason began, ground that renders the science/logic vs religion argument irrelevant, I'm all ears. Somehow I doubt I'll get answer to that. More than likely this thread will keep going in circles until people get bored of it all (or someone asks some interesting open ended questions)

Thank you.

 

[ViSion]

You take too much of an adversarial aproach to really hope to be treated with universal respect around here, dude. we're not known for our manners, or political correctness.

I regret to admit that several of the other members of this thread have been at times rather impolite, but frankly, you of all people have no right to claim we are here only to bash people of other demoninations, as you have failed so far to give a single straight answer to any question at all, as far as i can tell.

See post http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1722066&postcount=642
OK Qualthwar you wanted an answer concerning why GOD changed his mind about brothers marrying, sisters, etc...

This was my original post
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1708862&postcount=592


This was the first response to that post
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1708902&postcount=593

If only you had read a grammar book instead of the bible.

This was my response to that post

Thank you for your critique of my post though after reading most of the posts here. It was not readily apparent that proper grammar was a prerequisite for posting a reply. I will endeavor to do better in the future. Though I am confused as to how your reply addressed any aspect of my post.

Please read my first post, maybe you can explain to me what it was that I stated that incurred or warrented the belittlement of this individual.

So if I come across as being adversarial it was not I who started it. Matter of record check my first postings they were quite impersonal it was requested that I become personal. So that is what I did.

I enjoy debating, i enjoy talking about religion, and the ins and outs of faith. There are a whole list of theoretical questions i'd love to ask an equally urbane religious person, purely for my own amusement.

O.K. ask a reasonable question and I will give a straight answer.

If you are here to legitimately discuss the matters of this thread, why have you proved, time and again, to prefer generalised personal attacks and evasive answers?

(See above, See below)

Why did you join the debate? You are not a regular on these forums, and post in none of the other threads. you seem infact to have a near pathalogical hatred and distrust of the majority of these forums.

I was reviewing some posts pertaining to a game when I accidentally stumbled onto this thread no I am not a regular visitor here but I am known in the gaming community. So the pathological hatred and distrust you mention refer to forums that I have no idea of their topics. But had I known you had to be a regular multi forum poster in order to post here I would not have posted here.

Why are you here, if not to "Defend your faith" and infact, return attack?

I posted here in defense of the Bible but here is what I find most curious of all. Statements can be made about religious practices, beliefs, and dogma but I am forbidden to bring up or point out what the Bible actually states and teaches because as I have been told some don’t believe in it so it is not relevant to this thread.

If I am not allowed to defend where I live why should I allow myself to be maneuvered into supporting a position in which I do not support? Take for instance the question you posed to replace Qualthwars.

Q - let me try see if i can't manage a more unbiased question;

Biblical scholars have finally agreed a date for "the rapture".
Tomorrow morning.

If I were to state that there is nothing Biblical about the rapture and it is an erroneous doctrine I would be accused of evading the question. If I were to say it had to do with the separation of the wheat and the tares I would be accused of being foolish. If I were to say it is not logical for scholars to conclude such because the Bible states no man knows the day or the hour I would accused of bringing forth information which is irrelevant. In short I would be accused of everything but telling the truth.

If you would like another example: I have clearly stated my position on the state of the dead http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1722025&postcount=640 yet here http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1762918&postcount=1013 Qualthwar has me believing in something completely different.

There are very few people left in this thread, after all, who you haven't already flamed.

So every time I was addressed as you Christians or Christians believe followed by a negative connotation they were not meant as; attacks, ridicules, or snubs? And if I remember correctly if they were unjustified I apologized.

 

[Evil_Cope]

If I were to state that there is nothing Biblical about the rapture and it is an erroneous doctrine I would be accused of evading the question. If I were to say it had to do with the separation of the wheat and the tares I would be accused of being foolish. If I were to say it is not logical for scholars to conclude such because the Bible states no man knows the day or the hour I would accused of bringing forth information which is irrelevant.

So, in short, you would more readily believe the scientists in that admittedly poor thought out situation as well?

 

[Nachimir]

I do not believe in evil.
Right and Wrong, wise and unwise. Ill, perverted, good-hearted etc etc. fair enough.
Evil is a myth, nothing more.

... it's a synonym

 

[ViSion]

So, in short, you would more readily believe the scientists in that admittedly poor thought out situation as well?

I would be of the same opinion.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

See post http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1722066&postcount=642
OK Qualthwar you wanted an answer concerning why GOD changed his mind about brothers marrying, sisters, etc...

what are you going on about now? i responded to your posts, way back when, about this stuff.

 

[ViSion]

I don't see how believing my soul doesn't exist is self-centered. I believe that everything exists as a singular infinite creation. There is no me or you, just all, working as one. That is as far from self centered as I think one can go.
.

I can not recall that we discussed the soul, I thought we discussing the merits or what constituted reality, but be that as it may. What you have been proclaiming is that there is no reality beyond what you are cognizant of, I did not say you were self-centred. What I said was you were self-centered as in reality is limited to the sum of your experiences. This is what you stated not I.

Reguarding the soul, yes I know this will not matter to some, but I am over that limitation now. The Bible simply defines a soul as a combination of elements when combined they create a living soul or being and at death these elements return to where they came from the body to the earth and the breath of life (air) goes back to the atmosphere. The Bible actually speaks of three Heavens one being atmospheres, the second space, the third is where GOD resides.

I have always deemphasized the importance and validity of science in this thread, if anything. You're fighting people who started on the same side as you..

I am not fighting anyone I just have sincere disagreements with much of what is being presented here. As I stated I am here as an advocate of the Bible and its teachings. I do not support religions, psuedo-christianiy or theories which stand on quicksand.

Your response is worded like you're sick of me personally. I am sure at some point in this thread you asked not to be judged as a person based on your posts. I would do the same, but you've already done so. That doesn't help. This is an argument, not an attack.

I am not judging anyone here and please do not act as though you have not been taking pop shots at me. I am just expressing my reality. Which is within this debate, I have been told just how I should represent my opinions to suit others of opposing views. There are no rules of moderation or a moderator here, why call this a debate if opposing views are censored, yes I called "you a bunch of intellectual cowards" and I meant it. No, I am not personally sick of you I do not know you. I rather enjoyed our discourse for the most part but if I remember correctly you started this of by attempting to insult me so please do not take it personal, I am sure you did not mean anything personal by your digs towards me.

 

[ViSion]

what are you going on about now? i responded to your posts, way back when, about this stuff.

1. you miss the fact this was in response to another post by another individual.

2. It was not addressing you but rather quoting myself.

3. Where is there any intimation that you did not respond?

 

[ReD_Fist]

quote ;;Quath'''""" You don’t disprove abstract concepts."""

Then why is it so crucial we "prove" there is a God.

 

[GoAt]

prove this god then

 

[Mister_Prophet]

Then why is it so crucial we "prove" there is a God.

Because we can prove aspects of Evolution. It would appear we can't prove any bit of creationism. If I had a choice of being trapped in a pitch dark cave or being trapped in a pitch dark cave with a flashlight, which one do you think I'm going to choose?