Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

[QUALTHWAR]

MR Pr.......Balton beat me too it. I find alot of Christians assume that their faith is right simply because it is older than evolutionism theories. But by that same logic they roll their eyes when people like me and Balton bring up the arguement that "Well what about all those hundreds of other religious faiths that have existed before Christianity and date back to early man when we looked into the sky with wonder and believed in Gods in the sky?"
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Yes but the FACT is there was allways a belief in a higher power,but it wouldnt make sense that several gods could be around,all that has been writen in the bible has outlived them all.

And whats so FACTUAL is the bible still stands to logic for one leading a good life,and also has an ending,how can they wright such a down patt ending to the end of the earth? how?,And it stays within the context of only one God.

Unlike mythology and lightning,yes we have DISPROVED them,but yet still the bible can be followed with commen sense. sin ,,, no sin,,

You might want to rethink things when you say stuff like 'everybody' believes this and we 'always' thought that.

I doubt people that inhabited the earth always believed in a higher power and there are many people today who don't believe in a higher power.

The bible, if anything, is confusing. God is good and loving, but then turns around and does bad things to people.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

QUATH "Crap! We’re way past fires. If I was a 21 century god, I’d be talking about hurling the earth into a black hole where our atoms are pulled apart. Something, anything, but some mundane fire."

The way I see it is when God created the heaven and the earth he knew the sun would nova.
Yes science and or humans have figured out what "nova" is ,but that still doesnt prove there isnt a God all because we learned somthing new via science.

this assumes the human race won't die out before billions of years from now. Even if humans did survive that long, there's a chance some from our race are on other worlds and safe. If that's the case, then god failed to get everybody.

And even if humans last billions of years until the sun expands, i doubt it will actually be 'fire' that kills us. Solar radiation will kill off plant and animal life long before the earth gets hot enough to burst into flames. we'll starve to death before anything.

 

[GoAt]

i still wana know why the bible and its teachings must evolve with the times.

why must we accept gays

why are women allowed short hair

why are men allowed long hair

why are we allowed divorce.

why is masturbation becoming more accepted and no longer taboo and a huge sin.

evolution exsists! religions evolove to adapt to the times.

i still want answers

 

[Mister_Prophet]

Yes but the FACT is there was allways a belief in a higher power

FACT? With all caps? Well no, it is NOT FACT. According to Christianity it is maybe, but certainly not all religions. Do you really think people sprung out of the ground and instantly knew about God? If anything, your claim is speculation. Same way everything the evolutionists are saying could also be considered speculation...only with the physical stuff to support the ideas being brought to the table.

but it wouldnt make sense that several gods could be around,all that has been writen in the bible has outlived them all.

Of course you'd say it wouldn't make sense The same way some tribe somewhere that worships many Gods would say your single God doesn't make sense. The same way I'm saying that any God doesn't make sense.

And let's see why the bible outlived so many of these other "pagan" religions. Remember the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, missionary colonialism? How about all those wars? How about the subjagation of the Native Americans? You really think none of this played a small part? And you're still only thinking inside the small box that is America. Our country is pro-jesus. That doesn't mean everyone in the world is Christian.

And whats so FACTUAL is the bible still stands to logic for one leading a good life,and also has an ending,how can they wright such a down patt ending to the end of the earth? how?,And it stays within the context of only one God.

If you want me to right a book about how to be a morally Good person, I'll even throw in a God named Jeff and a bunch of stories with a begining and an End that will also be pretty down pat That doesn't prove anything more than that the bible has an underlying message that you should be nice to everyone. Being moral is not the same as being a "FACT" and it certainly doesn't support creationism in any way.

Unlike mythology and lightning,yes we have DISPROVED them,but yet still the bible can be followed with commen sense. sin ,,, no sin,,

When it comes to all the being nice to one another stuff, yeah I agree. Bible has some good stuff. So do alot of religions, you think being nice started with the bible!? Hey guess what, an Atheist family could also tell their kids to be nice to one another. I'm an atheist and I think it's a great idea.

What turns me off with the "bible" folk is when they twist the bible in a way to hate or exclude people. Right now being gay is a big issue. It used to be people who had alot sex, though christians seem to have given up hope on that one nowadays. I also don't think telling people that being good comes with a reward is a good idea to spread around. You should be a good person regardless. Not because God will let you into heaven if you do. Life after death, all that stuff doesn't apply to ...as George Carlin once said, an "Intelligent individual living in the 21rst century". At least this is what I believe. And like I said before, the bible saying some things about morality that countless other religions and NON-religions also try to institute in their citizens or communites...that is not even remotely "evidence" that creationism is more correct than the ideas behind evolutionism.

 

[Chrysaor]

Religion is a metaphor, a way of relating to the universe that does not require reason.

On the contrary, religion may operate as a narrative based on Reason. Most don't sure, but some do. Scientific reason doesn't help everyone, there is no Universal Narrative. Why is this debate still going? What the ****.

 

[ReD_Fist]

"Yes but the FACT is there was allways a belief in a higher power"

I did not say "god" wether it be lightning or the sun,I am sure cavemen didnt have to be a genius to wonder why or how they arrived here or everything that surrounded them.
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"Of course you'd say it wouldn't make sense The same way some tribe somewhere that worships many Gods would say your single God doesn't make sense. The same way I'm saying that any God doesn't make sense"

The reason i don't make sense is not because of how i grew up or america etc etc
It's because too many cooks spoil the broth,what 20 different gods ,and each one had a task? like a group think? hehe,don't make sense.
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Then you bring up wars,I suppose this anti jew or all of the other wars you mentioned were all fighting for good ,it's exactly what the bible says,the devil creeps in ,in very sneaky ways.I suppose hitler and his ways were on the good side and christians or jews or anybody else was on the evil side of things. C'mon

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"Right now being gay is a big issue"

same for abortion
Thats right but the difference everybody knows its wrong ,even the slightest degree of it for instance,why do gays use the word "straight" to define nongay.?and why did they come up with that lame ass word "gay" it's cause they are ashamed of themselvs and want to pretty the picture,I give no slak to that crap at all.unlike racism,wich is valid descrimination.Hell if someone wants to pick there nose all day long, go for it,but I don't want to see it or hear about it. and i am thouroghly ,totaly saturated about there antics with all this gay rights crap !!!
My take on it is they cant make babys,plain and simple,but all because some religous guy says it's a bad thing why do they get so upset,because they KNOW it's wrong.
But again the bible tells to not be judging on others,bible still stands true.

The devil comes in when there is all this fighting and stuff,then he won.

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"I also don't think telling people that being good comes with a reward is a good idea to spread around. You should be a good person regardless. Not because God will let you into heaven if you do."

The bible says planly you cant get to heaven by good works,it must be faith.

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"that is not even remotely "evidence" that creationism is more correct than the ideas behind evolutionism"

Thats just another way of testing your faith,also i would definitly lean twaords not thinking i came from a monkey,I would rather believe that I came from someone who has his **** togethor.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

The reason i don't make sense is not because of how i grew up or america etc etc
It's because too many cooks spoil the broth,what 20 different gods ,and each one had a task? like a group think? hehe,don't make sense.

This is exactly what I was referring to.

Then you bring up wars,I suppose this anti jew or all of the other wars you mentioned were all fighting for good ,it's exactly what the bible says,the devil creeps in ,in very sneaky ways.I suppose hitler and his ways were on the good side and christians or jews or anybody else was on the evil side of things. C'mon

I never said anti-Jew. In fact I'd consider the Jewish religion in the same vein since they both stem from the same book. But the terrible things caused by the Jews seem to only really be mentioned in the bible. But mainly I was comparing those who believed in the bible to those faiths that did not. And how do you take examples like the Crusades, sugjagation of the Native Americans, and the Inquisition, and turn my examples into a pro-hitler narrative?

same for abortion
Thats right but the difference everybody knows its wrong ,even the slightest degree of it for instance,why do gays use the word "straight" to define nongay.?and why did they come up with that lame ass word "gay" it's cause they are ashamed of themselvs and want to pretty the picture,I give no slak to that crap at all.unlike racism,wich is valid descrimination.Hell if someone wants to pick there nose all day long, go for it,but I don't want to see it or hear about it. and i am thouroghly ,totaly saturated about there antics with all this gay rights crap !!!
My take on it is they cant make babys,plain and simple,but all because some religous guy says it's a bad thing why do they get so upset,because they KNOW it's wrong.
But again the bible tells to not be judging on others,bible still stands true.

Wow you really proved my point here. I don't need to say anything

The devil comes in when there is all this fighting and stuff,then he won.

I was raised Christian, but my parents taught me that people were reponsible for their own actions. No devil, no supreme intervention making us do bad things...just people hurting people.

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The bible says planly you cant get to heaven by good works,it must be faith.

So a guy can dedicate his life to helping people, saving people, and ultimately die to save someone else, and he won't go to heaven if he doesn't believe in God?

My upbringing often mentioned this stuff alot, but if I recall exactly, it's a bit of both.

Thats just another way of testing your faith,also i would definitly lean twaords not thinking i came from a monkey,I would rather believe that I came from someone who has his **** togethor.

Yeah cus the God you're describing really is infallible. I'd personally rather decend from a monkey. But that's me.

And uh, Creationism vs evolutionism? That was the topic I think. You guys still have some stuff to explain.

 

[GoAt]

i still wana know why the bible and its teachings must evolve with the times.

why must we accept gays

why are women allowed short hair

why are men allowed long hair

why are we allowed divorce.

why is masturbation becoming more accepted and no longer taboo and a huge sin.

evolution exsists! religions evolove to adapt to the times.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

...

When you say things like: “I am sure cavemen didnt have to be a genius to wonder why or how they arrived here or everything that surrounded them.” does this mean you don’t accept the notion that many Christians have that the earth is only 6000 years old? That there were cavemen tens of thousands of years ago?

“i would definitly lean twaords not thinking i came from a monkey,I would rather believe that I came from someone who has his **** togethor.”

Well, guess what? You came from apes, so get used to it. You’re trying to compare modern man with monkeys and you’re thinking my ancestors couldn’t have been that stupid. Time and evolution have created a large gap between the cognitive abilities of man and ape. This same time/evolution process is one reason why you don’t want to believe in how you descended. You don’t want to believe because your brain hasn’t evolved enough to understand what a million years feels like. You can sort of feel what a year is like, or maybe 5 or even 10 years, but what does 1000 years feel like?

Cavemen weren’t as dumb as you may think. They were smart enough to survive in a hostile environment for tens of thousands of years. Early cavemen weren’t as smart as we are, but more modern cavemen were about as smart. People ask if cavemen were so smart, why didn’t they live like us? Go back to the early part of the last century when the Wright brothers first flew. Human flight was one of the great events of mankind. It led to us going to the moon. Today, people still make remarks such as: We can put a man on the moon, but we can’t –fill in the blank-. Flight is like a measure of how smart we are.

Now picture one week or one day before the Wright brothers first flew. Do you really think they got a hell of a lot smarter the day they flew compared to the day before they flew? It’s the same with making discoveries like Edison when he figured out after hundreds of attempts that tungsten was the material to use in light bulbs. It takes time to hit on the right idea. Things happen in steps and stages. Cavemen were pretty darn smart even though they weren’t flying around in airplanes.

You know, we have taught sign language to apes. There are people on the planet who aren’t smart enough to learn sign language. That seems like an overlap of intelligence between the primate brain and the human brain to me. We are smarter because our brains are larger. We have a larger capacity for learning. It took millions of years for our brains to grow larger and we do have the fossil evidence to show how man’s brain grew over time.

As far as cavemen believing in a god or a higher power: I think such things actually happened later on through a society. I doubt apes are saying things like the clap of thunder was a sign from god. As we evolved, I doubt early cavemen thought a god was controlling things. They were in tune with their environment and even though they didn’t understand everything, they probably thought whatever was happening around them was just a product of their environment. I suspect it was later on when we had societies that gods were invented to explain things. As I mentioned in a previous post: I can imagine the elders of the village being looked upon as the wise men and when these wise men didn’t have answers to questions like what is thunder, they said there were even higher wise men who do things for unknown reasons. The village wise men became the priests while the higher wise men became the gods. I would suspect the concept of gods came about in some similar fashion.

 

[ReD_Fist]

Quath."Well, guess what? You came from apes, so get used to it"

NOT !!!

 

[Chrysaor]

What's wrong with coming from apes? Are you too good for that?

 

[GoAt]

i still wana know why the bible and its teachings must evolve with the times.

why must we accept gays

why are women allowed short hair

why are men allowed long hair

why are we allowed divorce.

why is masturbation becoming more accepted and no longer taboo and a huge sin.

evolution exsists! religions evolove to adapt to the times.

 

[militaryspetproject]

Red Fist makes me doubt that there is a god. People like him fighting for god... geez you at least think god could pick better soldiers...or someone who at least makes sense.

 

[oosyxxx]

when i went a couple weeks ago the rev. was talking about how we were soldiers and i'm all in my head, "wtf did i just enlist in? i aint killin no-f'n-body!" then again i was in the clan soldiers4satan and we owned the universe oh so totally thoroughly

 

[Chrysaor]

Goat Evolution evolves to adapt to the times, that's not a fair statement.

 

[Evil_Cope]

i still wana know why the bible and its teachings must evolve with the times.

why must we accept gays

why are women allowed short hair

why are men allowed long hair

why are we allowed divorce.

why is masturbation becoming more accepted and no longer taboo and a huge sin.

Despite the fact that it's GoAt asking, these are perfectly valid questions and i for one would honestly like to see what the answers are.

 

[GoAt]

Goat Evolution evolves to adapt to the times, that's not a fair statement.

but its blasphemy to say that religion evolves

 

[GoAt]

Despite the fact that it's GoAt asking, these are perfectly valid questions and i for one would honestly like to see what the answers are.

it would appear that we are allowed to pick and choose what we wana follow from the bible.

as long as we accpet jesus somtime in our life, it dont matter.

 

[militaryspetproject]

but its blasphemy to say that religion evolves

Not really concidering there is a new testament.
Didnt god come down out of the clouds and revise the old testament? For the changing times? No more an eye for an eye stuff.

 

[Evil_Cope]

a lot of the content, as far as i can tell at any rate, seems to reinterpreted quite often, however. The church's position on many things seems to shift quite frequently. While this in no way invalidates the religion itself, it does make certain viewpoints rather questionable, especially those taking the bible's word as immutable law.