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Rein: UTIII on PC not "doing so badly"

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Growler, Jan 25, 2008.

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  1. gregori

    gregori BUF Refugee

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    Thats depressing. You would think they could have used all that money from Gears to hype this game, or atleast go with a better publisher who will hype it. Two Unreal Titles have tanked under Midway, UC2 and UT3. I think its time for change.

    I think "By the Studio that brought you Gears of War" wasn't a particularily awesome advertising strategy because its sounds like they're trying to flog you a cheap and inferior product that doesn't stand on its own merits. It doesn't sound self confident. People aren't so stupid.

    Crytek didn't sell with the line " from the studio that brought you Far Cry", they just showed the public the game's incredible graphics and physics!! Gears of War used did the same and had a really awesome marketing campaign.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008
  2. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    All the more reason we may see UT3.5 :)
     
  3. Capt.Toilet

    Capt.Toilet Good news everyone!

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    Oh brizzy :)
    Taken at 1920*1080. Also its rez dependent as I took the same shot at a non widescreen rez and the beam was nice and straight. dont hurt me plz
     

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  4. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    THIS THREAD IS SERIOUS!!!
     
  5. Capt.Toilet

    Capt.Toilet Good news everyone!

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    I mean it I'm cereal!!:mad:
     
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    FOV issue?
     
  7. Larkin

    Larkin Gone

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    This is getting so old.

    I want a regular thread that doesn't have bitching in it.

    -----
    Btw, Anuban you were right in that thread. Guess what people, real testers of games get mentioned in the credits of games and if I am testing your stuff, mention me aswell. I don't have to test anything, and most of the time maps are crap that need allot of work, so if I give you harsh feedback, it is needed to make you better. I will not test your maps again if you blast me for saying the truth and I will not test your maps again if I don't get mentioned in the readme.
     
  8. Capt.Toilet

    Capt.Toilet Good news everyone!

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    Nah my FoV is 100. I think it has something to do with 16:9 resolutions perhaps? When I was gaming on my 22" and had it set to a 16:10 resolution, the bend wasnt there. Course now I am on my 37" so that very well could be the issue.
     
  9. Lethargy

    Lethargy Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra

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    Well... you just lost me, hard.
     
  10. haslo

    haslo Moar Pie!

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    A FOV of 100 is a lot. Us humans have a "real" FOV of less than 10°, while we gather enough visual information to have the illusion of a FOV of 180°. Make this experiment: Take a random playing card from a deck of cards, and move it into your FOV from the side - keep your eyes very straight while doing that. Then try to find out what colour the card is. Personally, I don't see the colour before maybe 15° away from the focal point.

    What I'm trying to say is that a FOV of 100 means some visual tricks and oversimplifications, to keep straight lines visually straight. Otherwise you'd see things as you do in those panoramic pictures, they're actually way more correct. The thing now is that the link beam doesn't fall under the "let's oversimplify this" category, and thus is calculated more correct than the rest - which means that it appears bent. But come on, it's not like that hurts your aim, or does it?

    Anyway. The Epic forums are a typical victim of what I call the "official forum syndrome". It's probably a big part of the reason why I always hated the WoW forums, and Tabula Rasa never had official forums in the first place. If there's anything with the tag of "official", people are gonna complain and flame and whine and generally be incredibly annoying idiots all day long - even if they're perfectly reasonable and actually nice people usually (and I have to add a disclaimer, I'm not talking about anybody in particular here). While some forums have quite lax guidelines, official forums who only show some sign of rule sleaziness will be swamped in complaints and won't be of any use to those who don't happen to be either having fun at the expense of whiners or whiners themselves. Or in other words, the official forums that don't enforce strict rules are utterly useless in what they're trying to accomplish, which is, to create and strengthen a community.

    Long story short, I love the way Epic keeps their forums clean, and the fact that some valuable contributors who happened to have a bad day fall victim to the strict forum policies is a small price to pay for actually having forums with useful information, as opposed to the whinefest that other official forums are.

    Point in case, random pick: WoW US Paladin forums. Every other thread is a whine - "CS does less damage than White Hits", "I QUIT PLZ UNDERSTAND", "RET doesn't need SWEEPING CHANGES!!!", "Paladins: Why We Suck (Part 2, Continued)" (!) ... looking for having a good time with the game you like? No way, the whiners are in charge. And that's with a very successful game (let's not go into whether it's good or not, that has nothing to do with the issue), so don't tell me there's just justified whines when and because a game fails (and another disclaimer, I don't mean to say that UT3 fails or failed, personally I think it's the best game I ever played so far, and that's starting with Digger back in like 1985).

    Edit: Well, they still could try and resolve issues with personal messages before using the banhammer, of course. That'd be the more sensible, but admittedly also more time- and burnout-intensive, way to go about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  11. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Our vision isn't an illusion. :(

    It's just that the human eye can only focus on a single point about the size of a dime at a time, so the rest is out of focus and of poor quality. Scanning a large area with the eyes lets our brain piece things together so we form a clear image in our heads.

    There's also no trickery in digital imagery such as games either. The reason things get bent and fish-eyed is because they're trying to represent a 3D space on a 2D plane. It's not that hard to understand and it's not a illusion. It's math. :(
     
  12. h.pocus

    h.pocus New Member

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    I fear you do not understand customer service. It is not the communities fault if epic makes an employee moderate a forum after coding all day. Also it is not the communities fault if epic decides to outsource forum administration to the community and not pay them for their time. It is our fault if we don't speak up and keep supporting them. These are official forums! They made enough money off one day of sales for bioshock to pay off a forum admin for a while. Why are you making excuses for them anyways? If you don't have time to moderate a forum then don't.

    edit: @haslo

    "cleaning" their forums as you say, is better known as censorship. Granted this does not apply to post that are off topic are obviously way over the top. Ask them why they censor their forum, you won't get an answer you will be banned. Some might say that is a troll who ask a question like that, others might have the sense to assume it is a regular user with a valid question. i won't point out who is who.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  13. haslo

    haslo Moar Pie!

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    That's another way to say the same thing :) - yes, the focus you're speaking about is the "real FOV" I was talking about. Indeed we scan the area by shifting said focus and piecing together a high-res 3D model (not 2D picture, otherwise it wouldn't be that hard to draw perspectively correct) in our heads.

    Yes the way the computer projects things from 3D space into the 2D plane is 4D matrix math only, I coded 3D engines before ;) Still it's basically trickery, because the engine doesn't project into a bent "visual plane" that would be parallel to the eye, because that bent spherical surface (or with those panoramic pictures, usually cylindrical surface) would yield those non-straight lines, but rather the monitor plane. When we look at the monitor however we aren't looking dead center at all times - if we would, the projection would be adequate - but rather shift our focus towards the edges as well (and while we're at it, we're often also slightly moving the eye position and thus the geometry's reference point). Without trickery, shifting our focus like that would require for the geometry to adapt to that new focal point, because we're not consciously perceiving the projection plane as a plane but rather "the space behind that plane" - which it doesn't. That's why when we look at the lower or further-out edge of the screen, game geometry angles seem so weird, particularly with high FOV angles.

    After further thinking though all this doesn't explain the bent link beam after all, because that should be projected in exactly the same however adequate or inadequate way and thus stay straight. I'm actually confused now.

    I agree with you that it borders censorship. The thing that everything comes down to though is - where do you draw the line? Because that's exactly the thing - if you leave a post standing that asks "why do you censor this and that post with this and that content", you'll be swamped as well. Just not by posts flaming about issues, but by posts asking why their flames about those issues have been deleted. Myself, I don't like swamped forums, and apparently the community managers at Epic don't either.

    Of course there should be threads collecting issues, and there are issues that still need patching, but obviously the devs do listen to reasonable feedback, or we wouldn't get all those awesome changes and fixes in patch 2. And I'm sure that the devs also read the bigger non-official forums, at least from time to time, just like the interested ones of the official forum's mods. The latter of which certainly think "phew, am I happy I don't have to clean up this mess here"... :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  14. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Who are you talking about? Bioshock wasn't made by Epic and they likely didn't make much off of it's sales.

    I understand customer service just fine. But that's not really the issue here. If you were a company receiving support calls that had no questions but demands from people who were angry, inflammatory, or had turetts syndrome, you would be instructed to tell them goodbye and note their account so people would not talk to them anymore. It's really no different here.
     
  15. fuegerstef

    fuegerstef New Member

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    I think he either means the license of what EPIC recieved or if there is still that lincense model where you have to pay 3 % (or whatever it was) of your income to EPIC.
     
  16. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    "It is amazing how people can look at two weeks of sales (in our case)" /snip

    Hehehehehehe, Im not even gonna say it :p
     
  17. haslo

    haslo Moar Pie!

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  18. WarTourist

    WarTourist New Member

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    Ding ding! You're welcome to be critical of our games at the official forums, but only constructively.

    For reference, we don't consider repeatedly posting you're "Using the UT3 dvd as a coaster while playing TF2" constructive.:)
     
  19. BigDragon

    BigDragon New Member

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    One time, Jeff, just one time. You had a ****fit because I posted that once after giving constructive input about how to better reach out to people who are having issues with the cd-key coming up all the time and server map-download redirection causing a disconnect presumably because of the amount of time it takes to download a map, load it, and then keep your spot on the server. The patch was aimed for 2 weeks--plenty of time to address both problems completely and not half-way. You never gave any indication of a warning. Things just 'poof!' vanished into thin air. I guess all the previous constructive input I gave to other mappers, people asking questions about modding, and those actually participating in mods is for nothing. You banned me without notice and deemed me "some random troll" which is completely ignorant to the contributions I've been making on your official forums as well as other sites (like this one) over the past several years. When you start kicking out your biggest customers your company will soon end up in the crapper just like Sears.

    Remember the saying about sticks and stones, Jeff? If you want to be a successful leader online you need to live by that saying. If you're going to ban long time customers like me who buy collectors editions and contribute on maps and mods that keep your product going and money coming into YOUR pocket so you can feed yourself and your family, then I will have no part of keeping your product alive on any site. One of the first things you learn in business training is that it's 6 times more difficult to attract a new customer than it is to keep a current one. Until I get a public apology for your actions, I intend to show you how accurate that statement is by telling everyone I know my side of the story in an effort to discourage them from picking up any Epic products, particularly UT games.
     
  20. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    You really have a very poor attitude. You also must apparently not have any idea how long certain issues can take to fix, or perhaps just the order in which things get fixed.

    Anyway, this thread has nowhere to go but the sewer from here, so I have decided to condemn it to there.
     
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