Post 2.9 Official Weapon Suggestions Thread

[Meplat]

Tiffy-*Shrugs* I've done it, seen it done, no damage.
Peter Kokalis did a fairly thorough set of experiments on this as well. Back issues of either "Small Arms Review", or "SOF" should contain the articles.

Remember, we are not talking about partial immersion. Total immersion. The static pressure of the media on the exterior of the barrel is being forgotten. Also, this is not a case where one is inducing backpressure. If the bore were truly obstructed, damage would occur. Immersed, it is not, as the water can be displaced.

Go ahead and look up those back issues, or experiment yourself. I used to feel the same way, til I saw, read, and did it myself.

Meplat-

 

[Tiffy]

The reason the barrel is damaged, and it nearly alays is, is due to the increased breach pressure required to reach first motion and to drive the projectile down the barrel. The very fact the muzzel velocity is less when the weapon is fired underwater indicate that more of the propellant energy is required to displace the denser water than air.

Most weapons will bulge the barrel which can be seen as a shadow ring when viewing the barrel. If you've got a serverly weakened barrel it may burst and in some cases the extra breach pressure can cause a breach explosion.

I'll admit that some weapons are less likely to be badly damaged than others and that it all depends on the number of rounds fired as to whether the barrel is damaged enough to require replacing.

Firing a weapon with a water filled barrel that isn't underwater increases the likelyhood of a burst barrel but not by much.

As to experimenting myself I A) can't due to the strict gun laws in the UK and b) wouldn't want to damage any weapon I may have by abusing it in this manner unneccessarly. I've seen enonugh weapons that have had this done to them in my time to know what I'm talking about.

 

[Meplat]

Ah well. I can't do anything about the gun laws there. If you're ever in Arizona, I may be able to change your mind,(I have a number of "abuseable" firearms that I use as test mules) but for now, this topic is at a standstill it seems.

Meplat-

 

[Gnam]

If one has a pool, and cares little for their hearing, feel free to try it.My seeing a number of .45 ACP handguns, and a couple M16 variants fired underwater convinced me.

Um...wouldn't this put a dent or mark in the wall of your pool? Considering pools are a major factor in property value, I would imagine some people might not be so crazy about this. Plus, if you have tiled surfacing, you're going to do some damage for sure.

Atleast, I assume there's no chance of the bullet richocheting off the pool bottom (back at you)?

 

[Meplat]

Gnam- Nope. the .45 ACP rarely went more than 35 feet, and made this big weird corkscrew. What's stable in air seems unstable in water. The 55 grain pills would go VERY straight, with a huge cloud of cavitation behind them, then seem to all but stop, and nose toward the bottom. .22LR's are really anticlimatic, making a very subdued sound, the slug going maybe four feet.

This was also a rather large pool.

Meplat-

 

[Tiffy]

A question Meplat. Are you talking pistols or rifles. All my experience is with service rifles. I've never come across an officer who likes to get wet let alone discharge his firearm while immersed. The shorter barrel of a pistol should be more resistant to damage than rifle or SMG barrels. Just a though.... But I agree that the debate can't really go any further.

 

[keihaswarrior]

I once read an article about under water missles and bullets being developed. The basic idea behind it was that once you get the water to cavitate (by moving it very fast) then you could create a bubble around the projectile, therefore almost negating any water resistance and allowing the missle to be propelled by rocket propulsion.

With something like this, one could have a nuke travel for 100's of miles underwater (undetectable by radar) and then it could pop up and give the enemy a nasty surprise.

 

[Meplat]

Tiffy- Handguns, and SMG's. the M16 variants were a 9X19MM SMG, and a carbine with a 11.5" barrel. Handguns were a Series 70 Colt, a 40's vintage Ballester Molina (Basically a 1911 interbred with a Star) and a Browning GP 35. The .22 was a 60's vintage Colt "Huntsman".(Inexpensive "Woodsman" variant having 1911 style sights, and plainer finish)

Meplat-

 

[SaraP]

I once read an article about under water missles and bullets being developed. The basic idea behind it was that once you get the water to cavitate (by moving it very fast) then you could create a bubble around the projectile, therefore almost negating any water resistance and allowing the missle to be propelled by rocket propulsion.

That's exactly what the Russians' Shkval rocket-propelled supercavitating torpedoes do. Nasty buggers, nuke-tipped 533mm heavy torpedoes with a speed of over 100 meters per second and a range of about 7500 meters.

 

[Spier]

That's exactly what the Russians' Shkval rocket-propelled supercavitating torpedoes do. Nasty buggers, nuke-tipped 533mm heavy torpedoes with a speed of over 100 meters per second and a range of about 7500 meters.

For those that don't know, there is a very good reason why they had to put a nuke on the thing; it couldn't maneuver much..

 

[SaraP]

Actually, the original Cold War era Shkvals are unguided; the latest version, however, is guided and can be fitted with either a nuclear or conventional warhead.

 

[ecale3]

that doesn't mean its manueverable, that just means it "can" manuever. But that could be a purely theoretical thing like i "could" take over the world with a porno mag and a popsicle stick.

 

[Meplat]

Depends on the porn, and what that popsicle stick has been sitting in..

PKM! (Sorry, Turets)

Meplat-

 

[SaraP]

that doesn't mean its manueverable, that just means it "can" manuever. But that could be a purely theoretical thing like i "could" take over the world with a porno mag and a popsicle stick.

The original-model Shkval introduced in 1977 is unguided and travels in a straight line; the improved model introduced in the late 1990s is guided and homes in on its target using an onboard sonar system; the downgraded Shkval-E export version is guided but nonhoming and travels along an intercept course computed by fire-control prior to launch.

 

[ecale3]

Man Sara, laugh a little, maybe a smile here and there...Anything for you to be less of a no-nonsense predictible specification-monkey .

My silly reference of a torpedo to a porno mag/popsicle stick combo was supposed to be mildly entertaining. Like shooting the judges on american idol.

 

[Gnam]

...Anything for you to be less of a no-nonsense predictible specification-monkey.

You mean like the ones with frickin-lasers?

 

[ecale3]

Nono, these ones beat you down with weapons manuals and SIOP plans.

 

[Gnam]

Oh... You should have been more specific!

 

[Meplat]

Or specefically general. Something like that.

 

[KoRn|int]

Hi
I would love to see the AKS-74 instead of the AKMS.
I also would love to see the AS VAL, Pistolet Grach, SV-98, G 22, MP5SD5,
maybe Bizon 2, G 36, AN-94 Abakan and CAR-15