Player Movement

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

IMO Stoneblind has the point. If the (maybe unintended) changes in movement transform the game towards to more like the FPS with tactical/elements it was advertised then that could be almost reality. Giving bigger role to moving carefully and securing areas before blindly rushing in sounds nice to my ears. In U2 surprise attacks from blind angles weren´t that lethal because players with average reflexes could dodge away from firing sector in instant. In old version indoors weren´t nasty places enough for lonesome attacker as they should have been. It was just way too easy to avoid getting killed even in closed spaces making defending really difficult. Attacks should be done in groups when defence is just inpenetrable for a single fighter.(unless he´s §oul or some other freak) Don´t get the image I didn´t like the movement, it was significantly better than in most games.

I think the movement could be improved by more free usage of jetpack. You should be able to adjust the power of boost simply pressing jump as long as you desire. ---> You could burn your whole jetpack in one really long flight or in many smaller bounces. In some circumstances there´s hardly any use for enermously high jumps eg. when you´re stuck on an obstacle that is just above your reach. But in these cases you should be able to mantle even without jumping. It just would look more reasonable way of getting yourself over small edges.

(I´m sorry for everything in advance

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Thank you Sir_Likes_to_Hear_Himself_Talk_Alot.

My point is quite valid in light of your response to Stoneblind. Stoneblind is being quite objective, admitting he liked the movement in U2XMP alot but is looking forward to how the movement CHANGES for UTXMP. Your reply, on the other hand, was very subjective. He is looking forward, you and "many" others are looking backward. That's all there is to it. Considering that the "pro" community pretty much got split down the middle on which game they would play, I consider that at least half of the pros didn't agree that movement made XMP feel like XMP but the overall feel of the gametype did. I agree with them. I like this new movement style, and I look FORWARD to any other CHANGES that are made to UTXMP. I'm not being facetious when I say that the gametype XMP has the potential to be great, but right now it's being stifled by people looking backwards at U2XMP and expecting they are going to have an identical playing experience.

You cannot disagree with me that U2XMP was never POPULAR. Even at the height of it's "reign" you never really saw more than 300 or 400 people playing. And I know that YOU of all poeope know that most of those people quit playing BEFORE the Master Server problems even started. Even at the lowest point of UT2003's existence it still had more than 400 people playing at any given time.

 

[cyb]

If the (maybe unintended) changes in movement transform the game towards to more like the FPS with tactical/elements it was advertised then that could be almost reality. Giving bigger role to moving carefully and securing areas before blindly rushing in sounds nice to my ears.

yeah, it's a pity xmp is not a tom clancy game

Attacks should be done in groups when defence is just inpenetrable for a single fighter.(unless he´s §oul or some other freak)

so what? there are always people out there who are better than others, just deal with it.

 

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

yeah, it's a pity xmp is not a tom clancy game

so what? there are always people out there who are better than others, just deal with it.

I wasn´t whining about §oul. He`s incredibly good player and I respect him for that. Team game is team game and attacking above all things are IMO meant to be done in group. It´s just way too easy to steal an artifact in few seconds even if base is defended. In most maps bases are more easy for attackers to enter and escape when their job is done at enemys end. Little node rooms are claimed to be gunner ownage areas but the situation is lost when you lose eye contact in first place. When enemy sniper vanishes behind corner then it´s over for that defender.

 

[Towanda]

Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
My point is quite valid in light of your response to Stoneblind. Stoneblind is being quite objective, admitting he liked the movement in U2XMP alot but is looking forward to how the movement CHANGES for UTXMP. Your reply, on the other hand, was very subjective. He is looking forward, you and "many" others are looking backward. That's all there is to it.

You keep on doing this all the time, how can you claim that a player that have tested two games and supports the movement in the one of them is subjective while you who prefer the movement in the 2nd (or others who prefer the movement you perfer) are not?. In your arguments you consistently claim that your opinons are verified facts and the others are biased, subjective, faulty etc. You look forward and those who dont agree with you look backwards, at first glance your arguments seem rather convicing but after reading quite a few of your posts it seems you are pro everything that makes UTXMP a UT2k4-ish game with very standard gameplay and not something unique.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
I consider that at least half of the pros didn't agree that movement made XMP feel like XMP but the overall feel of the gametype did.

where the hell did you get that idea ? the poll is 33votes to change it back and 14 to keep it as it is? considering probably at least a few new players who never played u2xmp and found utxmp interesting voted to keep movements that is your are utterly wrong.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
I like this new movement style, and I look FORWARD to any other CHANGES that are made to UTXMP. I'm not being facetious when I say that the gametype XMP has the potential to be great, but right now it's being stifled by people looking backwards at U2XMP and expecting they are going to have an identical playing experience.

finally... well put, its YOUR opinion and what YOU belive.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
You cannot disagree with me that U2XMP was never POPULAR. Even at the height of it's "reign" you never really saw more than 300 or 400 people playing. And I know that YOU of all poeope know that most of those people quit playing BEFORE the Master Server problems even started

Totally fake of reality again.. Contrary, U2XMP was/is VERY popular among those who play/played it. it just never reached a broad player base which is something totally different and I would say that was mostly due to lack of advertising/distribution problems(didnt come bundled with the u2 game)/master server problems/launch of ut2k4.

Please feel free to express YOUR opinion and what YOU BELIVE but dont try to make it something else. I bet you where one of those who claimed impact hammer jumping was an exploit in the original ut too.

 

[Towanda]

well pot.OptimusPrime: that could also be said for gunners getting artis and driving away in raptors and i assume you wouldnt like to make them go at ½ speed... as you pointed out its a teamgame and the tech have laser fences that hinder the way out from a base and the gunner got mines. besides, if concussin jumping starts working in UTXMP that changes things too . Usually its VERY hard to get away with an artifact if there is a good gunner and tech who defends the node.

edit: when playing ranger in U2XMP movment was like snowboarding in waist-deep powdersnow and it UTXMP is more like driving a tractor-ish

 

[SwiftPaladin]

Tow, we've tried to amend his ways, but it's futile. Try This

 

[Sir_Brizz]

You keep on doing this all the time, how can you claim that a player that have tested two games and supports the movement in the one of them is subjective while you who prefer the movement in the 2nd (or others who prefer the movement you perfer) are not?.

Because I ALSO enjoyed the movement of U2XMP, and while I prefer the movement of UTXMP, (figure this out people) I DO NOT CARE WHETHER IT IS CHANGED BACK OR NOT. That is objectivity. I am WILLING to accept change, whereas you so-called "pro" players apparently are not. Most of the reason I argue for things to be left the way they are is if NOTHING is changed, then the game is going to fail AGAIN. And I don't know about you, but I personally would prefer that it doesn't.

In your arguments you consistently claim that your opinons are verified facts and the others are biased, subjective, faulty etc.

Where? Others have accused me of this but are unable to recount even one instance where I have claimed my post is verifiable fact and that another person's is not. It is easy to recognize a subjective post. It is not so easy to identify an objective post. I am READY for change. XMP NEEDS CHANGE. See below.

You look forward and those who dont agree with you look backwards, at first glance your arguments seem rather convicing but after reading quite a few of your posts it seems you are pro everything that makes UTXMP a UT2k4-ish game with very standard gameplay and not something unique.

I'm not the only one looking forward, as you can tell from Stoneblind's post. It is clear that he loved the way it was and is now ready for change, if it is needed (which IMO it is). Where have I said anything about making UTXMP more UT2k4-ish? I mean good God, UTXMP is about as far from UT2004 as you can get already without leaving the FPS domain. If anything it's more Tribes-like than it was before.

where the hell did you get that idea ? the poll is 33votes to change it back and 14 to keep it as it is? considering probably at least a few new players who never played u2xmp and found utxmp interesting voted to keep movements that is your are utterly wrong.

The fact that the poll was very close (almost 50/50) at the beginning of the poll (for SEVERAL days) tells me that the more likely culprit is foul play (not accusing ANYONE) than that the community is more for changing it back.

Totally fake of reality again.. Contrary, U2XMP was/is VERY popular among those who play/played it.

Maybe the gametpye, but not the game. I already told you that at U2XMP's peak it was at about 300-400 players (iirc, may have been lower). How else do you lose 200-300 players than a general non-acceptance of a game? Can you explain that much of a drop in players WIHTOUT Legend going out of business and WITHOUT master server problems (both of which happened AFTER this drop)?

it just never reached a broad player base which is something totally different and I would say that was mostly due to lack of advertising/distribution problems(didnt come bundled with the u2 game)/master server problems/launch of ut2k4.

I disagree. An XMP demo came out that reached...well...everyone. And most of them didn't like it (obviously). The only reason you listed above that is a viable excuse for it's failure is the distribution problems...but even those pale in comparison to the fact that most people didn't embrace the demo, which would have been meant to increase player amounts and obviously did not. And you can't honestly believe that Ut2k4 reduced the player numbers in U2XMP more than like 10 people. Most had already left by that time.

Please feel free to express YOUR opinion and what YOU BELIVE but dont try to make it something else. I bet you where one of those who claimed impact hammer jumping was an exploit in the original ut too.

Practically everything I say is my own opinion. Don't blame me for your inability to interpret that fact, even though I don't say IMO every other sentance...it is usually implied. The problem is that you won't interpret it as my own opinion unless I start tacking IMO on every single line of my posts, which (unfortunately for you) I'm not about to do. Some of what I say is fact. Like these: U2XMP IS DEAD, U2XMP had problem, U2XMP HAS TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS UT2003 WENT THROUGH TO UT2004 IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE SUCCESSFUL, AND THAT MEANS CHANGE. If you can't accept change, get a new hobby. It's the staple of the Entertainment industry.

 

[NOTmurderouspanda]

pwnt

 

[Zaknafein]

Stoneblind is being quite objective, admitting he liked the movement in U2XMP alot but is looking forward to how the movement CHANGES for UTXMP. Your reply, on the other hand, was very subjective. He is looking forward, you and "many" others are looking backward.

Because we are looking at what was RIGHT about the past for a road map of what could be GREAT in the future. Just like our entire race has done for millennia ... and the times when it didn't it has lead to some of the greatest tragedies of our history. Just because it’s a change does not make it a good one. Why change the absolute gem of what we loved about the game we are trying to progress forward. That makes as much sense as bulldozing the entire house because you wanted an extra bathroom. It's just a dumb idea.

Considering that the "pro" community pretty much got split down the middle

If middle was 1/3 or less of the community. You are just inflating the numbers in your head to make your position more secure.

You cannot disagree with me that U2XMP was never POPULAR.

Yes I can, in fact. For a game that did not have Atari's real blessing, from a company that was killed a few weeks after release ... the game did a phenomenal job. By word of mouth and devotion it has survived to this point. That is what will make it that much better when it is released for a game that has complete support and backing. But we should not dumb down the game to the point where enjoyment, skill, and what we loved about the game it is based on is lost.

I'm sorry, but you seem to just be arguing because you like arguments. That is all there is to that.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Because we are looking at what was RIGHT about the past for a road map of what could be GREAT in the future. Just like our entire race has done for millennia ... and the times when it didn't it has lead to some of the greatest tragedies of our history. Just because it’s a change does not make it a good one. Why change the absolute gem of what we loved about the game we are trying to progress forward. That makes as much sense as bulldozing the entire house because you wanted an extra bathroom. It's just a dumb idea.

Now you're comparing XMP to human civilzations throughout History?

Remember when the Internet began full steam? Alot of poeple though it was a bad idea and would fail. Look where it is now.

If middle was 1/3 or less of the community. You are just inflating the numbers in your head to make your position more secure.

Already addressed above. This poll was vote for vote pretty much until the past couple of days.

Yes I can, in fact. For a game that did not have Atari's real blessing, from a company that was killed a few weeks after release ... the game did a phenomenal job. By word of mouth and devotion it has survived to this point. That is what will make it that much better when it is released for a game that has complete support and backing. But we should not dumb down the game to the point where enjoyment, skill, and what we loved about the game it is based on is lost.

Ever played the sequel to ANY game? The ones that retain EVERYTHING about the original fail. The ones that EXPAND on the original succeed. The fact that the Special Edition was released says something about Atari's blessing. And you consider the game being left with less than 100 people playing and normally no more than 50 (overexaggerated) people on at one time surviving?? Unreal 1 has that kind of player numbers!

If your enjoyment and "skill" came from the old movement, why not master the new movement and gain just the same enjoyment and skill?? It's not that hard to be accepting to something so ridiculously small as the movement... or do you just not play any other video games where the movement is different??

You think the game is being DUMBED DOWN because of the differences in movement?????? I daresay the game requires as much or MORE skill than U2XMP did just for the simple fact that movement AND aim are more important now then just movement.

I'm sorry, but you seem to just be arguing because you like arguments. That is all there is to that.

Okay? Because I'm not making valid points? Or because you just don't like the points I'm making?

 

[Zaknafein]

Now you're comparing XMP to human civilzations throughout History?

It was much more then that. Its just plain common sense that you are trying to have use ignore.

Remember when the Internet began full steam? Alot of poeple though it was a bad idea and would fail. Look where it is now.

Yes, let’s look at where it is now because people DIDN'T throw away the good ideas and what worked about the technologies that went into the internets development.

Ever played the sequel to ANY game? The ones that retain EVERYTHING about the original fail. The ones that EXPAND on the original succeed.

Adding content and story, none of them ever changed their movement unless it was bad to begin with. Movement is the 'feel' of the game and EVERY developer that creates a sequel goes to great lengths to make sure that the FEEL of the game is as close as possible to the original. They all said so in their documentaries. They might ADD new moves, but they would NEVER dull it down. Hell, its not even limited to games. Harley Davidson just spent millions making sure that the V-Rod bike they just made rode like a Harley Davidson. They had test after test with experienced Harley riders making sure that if truely felt like a bike of their label. If this is to be XMP it has to feel like it. Otherwise it might as well be Quake XMP or something.

Okay? Because I'm not making valid points? Or because you just don't like the points I'm making?

You have no points. All you have is middle of the road BS with the saftey lable "I am not agreeing or disagreeing with my argueing against what you are saying". Maybe when you have the clarity of mind or perhaps, just the guts, to choose a single point of view and sticking with it ... I might be willing to conceed a 'point'. Till then you are just using up bandwidth needlessly.

 

[Gumby]

Ever played the sequel to ANY game? The ones that retain EVERYTHING about the original fail. The ones that EXPAND on the original succeed. The fact that the Special Edition was released says something about Atari's blessing. And you consider the game being left with less than 100 people playing and normally no more than 50 (overexaggerated) people on at one time surviving?? Unreal 1 has that kind of player numbers!

Erm... well... I thought you said before this wasn't a game... So how can it have a sequel? I thought it was a concept...

If your enjoyment and "skill" came from the old movement, why not master the new movement and gain just the same enjoyment and skill??
You think the game is being DUMBED DOWN because of the differences in movement?????? I daresay the game requires as much or MORE skill than U2XMP did just for the simple fact that movement AND aim are more important now then just movement.

The point being there is nothing really to master about the movement... And its soooo much easier to aim in UTXMP

Adding content and story, none of them ever changed their movement unless it was bad to begin with. Movement is the 'feel' of the game and EVERY developer that creates a sequel goes to great lengths to make sure that the FEEL of the game is as close as possible to the original

Is Lemmings different to Lemmings2? No Halo/Halo2? Nope. CS/CS:S? erm nope...

I think Brizz is trying to say that he wants this to be an entirely new game based on the concept of XMP, but with the movement of 2k4... Which doesn't have any erm... movement exploits obviously...

On the contrary my dear Watson, the other side to the argument (to which i support) is to have a new engine for the "concept" of XMP, whilst keeping the movent and gameplay the same...

[SexyAnnouncer]3-2-1 flame...[/SexyAnnouncer]

 

[Mantik]

Yawn.

 

[Xaero]

 

[NOTmurderouspanda]

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Erm... well... I thought you said before this wasn't a game... So how can it have a sequel? I thought it was a concept...

Concept -- XMP
Sequel -- UTXMP BASED ON U2XMP

The point being there is nothing really to master about the movement... And its soooo much easier to aim in UTXMP

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Is Lemmings different to Lemmings2? No Halo/Halo2? Nope. CS/CS:S? erm nope...

Lemmings doesn't have a movement style. But the whole GUI was recreated. Have you PLAYED Halo 2? And CS:S isn't ANY different than CS. There's an example of the only rason to do this is to add cool physics effects that aren't really that cool because the game still sucks.

I think Brizz is trying to say that he wants this to be an entirely new game based on the concept of XMP, but with the movement of 2k4... Which doesn't have any erm... movement exploits obviously...

No...actually...I want a successful game as opposed to a failure of a game (which U2XMP is and was). The concept is good, the gameplay is alright (but does need help), but yes ultimately a failure.

 

[Gumby]

Yeah i do have Halo2

UTXMP is far far easier to aim - don't know why, just the way the mouse responds in game (same as 2k4), well for me it is anyway.

CS:S is OK actually

edit: some vids to show people who haven't really seen "proper" movement in xmp before...
Saiboat's vid
Some of oC's stuff
There are quite a few others, but the links are down omni'/pet/vD/Darkgen etc...

 

[dutch_gecko]

I would like to change my opinion:

Get rid of the strange pause (which seems to be related to landing impact) and FMI can do whatever the hell they like for the rest

 

[CaSCaDe]

Native;