Player Movement

[Fleury14]

Should the player movement be modified to allow dodge/jump chains as in U2XMP or should it be kept the way it is.

ARGUMENT FOR MODIFYING

- Not modifying it makes splash weapons a bit too effective.
- Being able to constantly move AND maintain consistent aim is a skill that should be rewarded.
- Maps can be traversed easier.
- Everyone who played U2XMP is used to this style of movement, and changing it may turn vets away.

ARGUMENT FOR LEAVING IT HOW IT IS

- Some players would move so quickly, that newer people would have an impossible time hitting, driving the learning curve up, and consequently new players. U2 vets would have a huge advantage because being able to aim and move quick is a deep talent and U2 players have had almost a year of a head start.
- The old style allowed scripted movement and other exploits to be much more effective (so I've heard)

Personal note: There's probably more to this than what I put. I don't think just because the old movement was a byproduct of the engine means it shouldn't necessarily be included if its possible. I also think that if new people had just joined U2XMP, and seen how some of the rangers there moved, they would have likely gotten frustrated and shelved the game quickly.

 

[dutch_gecko]

Although I voted for "leave it as it is", I don't really want either option.
The original movement was very hard to learn (to this day I still can't walljump easily, and I'm a slow gunner!) and if reintroduced will scare away some new users, which we simply don't want to happen.
On the other hand, the current movement lacks all of the fluidity that made going on foot in u2xmp fun.
I'm hoping that the monkeys will be able to strike up a compromise, that lets players soar like eagles but without being able to "sprint" for a mile. Sure, a cheetah is fast, but how long can it keep it up?

 

[Fleury14]

Wall jumping is actually still in UTXMP, although the only maps I use it on are Alcazar and Kami.

 

[Gumby]

Wall jumping was the best fun in lowlands bases But you can't do half the stuff there anymore

 

[dutch_gecko]

I can't do it in u2xmp nor utxmp, but that's down to unresponsive fingers

 

[fireball]

It took me... 6 months to learn to walljump.
And that was when one of my clanmembers tought me.
I can't decide which, really. The old style was WAY too hard and WAY too good if you learned how, but this system makes it pretty easy to hit people...

 

[PhatAzz]

Well, the trend for movement problems is really class dependent when you look at it. Almost all the primary gunner players don't mind the new movement -> 1) it was to their advantage 2) they didn't play the other classes to really compare and know the difference.

I've been playing tech a lot and ranger, recently. I'm not great at either class, but there still needs to be small tweaks esp for tech, but I also don't think that movement should go back to what it was in u2xmp.

Gunner movement is better and the way I think it should be.
Tech may need a better jump (slightly better) but in battle I don't have a problem with jumping ability.
Ranger -> this last patch has really improved it's movement, and in battle even if you slowed down the pistol to 3/4 shots per second, it would own.

Anyhow, I think we will adapt to the new movement and it makes it easier for people to play, so etc etc. It's different but works.

U2xmp movement does work as well for ranger and tech. I think it can be implemented if they wanted to as long as gunner movement remained the same. Still with the way the weapon systems work in utxmp and just small differences, hard to say if movement was the same as u2xmp how much harder the game would be to noobs.

Right now, I don't think the movement should be the same, especially for the gunner, but the ranger and tech I can't comment heavily on since I can't compare the two. From a noob level primary experience of ranger and tech movement, I find them fine now. Mind you, if the vets say that it should be back to u2 style, then I believe them.

 

[JaGo]

In a perfect world I would love for the old movement to come back.
It only took me a few months to master the movement
in U2XMP, once I knew what the game was capable of. The problem
is that it took some prominent members of the community to tell
us (noobs) what the game was capable of. I remember a post by
vD-WolfMan that described how to do various types of wall jumping.
That post, for me, was like the Sun coming up. No one bothered to
explain to me how wall jumping worked before that. I'd seen players
do them but no one would ever answer my questions about how to
do them. The problem really isn't that the movement if too hard or
too fluid or too whatever for new players. The problem is that the
knowledge or (secrets) to the movement is very hard to come by.

And to be honest new players are STILL going to have just as much
difficulty with the UTXMP style movement as they are with the U2XMP
style. Simply adding the Sprint and the Boost pack and ALLLL the
combinations that can occur with these new features is always going to be
hard for new players. Especially if they are 2k4'ers of certain gametypes.

For truly new players (like I was) that have very little experience with FPS's,
it won't be a big deal and even alot of 2k4'ers won't have a problem with
it. (low grav, high game speed, players) most likely won't have issue with it.
We just need to educate them on the capabilities of the game. The post
about creating a walk through tutorial I saw a day or so ago is a very
good idea. All these things could be touched on and the new guys won't
feel so cheated when someone does a wall jump to get away from them
or obliterates them while sprint dodging around them.

The fact is, this game is difficult. It takes time to learn it. It takes an even
greater time to become good at it. IMHO, you'll never be able to "dumb" it
down enough to allow new players to come in and pick it up easily. At
least not by ONLY making game changes catered to them. Highly publicized
game tutorials and FAQ's will be neccessary for that. Like that post I
mentioned about the tutorial, distributing in the next patch a DEMO tutorial
is a GREAT idea. And, if done well enough would at least make the new guys
aware of the game capabilities. That way when someone does something in a
match that looks "unbelievable" they won't say "HAX, you're all a bunch of
cheaters" and then just leave.

I've heard grumbling's from various U2 community members about exploits in
the old U2 movment. Granted people that use programmable controllers
capable of scripting movment with timed macros is a bit unfair to the rest
of us that DON'T use them. However, those devices are here to stay. And
if I understand correctly about how they work, I'm not sure you'll ever be
able to stop the "short-cuts" that they allow for.

They are openly talked about all over the 2k4 forums and script trading is
rampant. Apparently in the 2k4 world it's no big deal to use them to script a
wall dodge.

So in my opinion, all you do when you write code to stop those devices,
is hand-cuff those of us who dont' use them. There were very few things
related to movement that I could not do in U2 that those devices did for
people. The stamina exploit for one, I always run out of it.

I suppose there are those out there that feel so strongly about the use of
those devices as cheats, that they would like measures (that affect
everyone) implemented to discourage there use. Me, well...if DE ever lost a
clan match because of those devices, I never knew about it.

Well, like I said, in a perfect world.

 

[Skatcher]

I don't have much to say except that IF possible, PLEASE get the u2xmp movement back

 

[Zaknafein]

The way it was.

As a gunner I needed that movement to compete with the faster moving classes.

Defense should be just as important as Offense in any competative game. In U2XMP the defense was your ability to dodge enemy fire while trying to compensate for your movement in trying to hit the enemy. It took skill and gave a well deserved reward to those that took the time to practice. To dull it down to what we have now is not an option.

In my opinion, the current movement is the way it is because Atari wanted to force people into the vehicles they made such a big fuss over. XMP isn't a vehicle focused game, its a player focused one.

 

[NOTmurderouspanda]

Keep it the way it is. The new movement was easy for me to adapt to and there's nothing really unfair about it. Was time for a change anyways.

 

[SwiftPaladin]

A funny thing is that we don't even know if the current movement's considered by FMI as a work-in-progress, or the ultimate product. Communication!!

 

[Zaknafein]

Unless you move at the speed and manuverability of a garbage truck. Rangers already figured out that they only need to aim where you are going to land because you can't do jack due to that delay in UTXMP. In u2xmp you could dodge after a hop and/or fall.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

IMO, the problem is the Sniper Rifle, not the movement. There is no other gun that makes that pause detrimental.

 

[|pure|Destruction]

i dont care about the movement. though, u2xmp feels better to everyone who played it, utxmp (2k4) movement is a little more fluid when it comes to special jumps, slides, etc. Id think it was the map, terrain, meshes itself that limits movement in utxmp, to an extent. Though dodge movement, jetpack, jump, etc. feels a little broken.

would post more nonsense & philosophical sh!t but im tired.

 

[Fleury14]

IMO, the problem is the Sniper Rifle, not the movement. There is no other gun that makes that pause detrimental.

As a gunner, I can wait for someone to dodge and know that they'll be stuck on the ground for a fraction of a second, more than enough time to take advantage of it with either rockets or napalm.

A funny thing is that we don't even know if the current movement's considered by FMI as a work-in-progress, or the ultimate product. Communication!!

I would imagine fixing the various bugs takes precedence over an issue that seems to be fairly evenly split at the time (13-10).

 

[SwiftPaladin]

I would imagine fixing the various bugs takes precedence over an issue that seems to be fairly evenly split at the time (13-10).

It definitely does. But, if every post is read, and some replied with "Be like Reeps this, or that," then a simple "We plan on fixing this," or "It will stay that way" (short, 10secs) responses would help us know where we stand. Otherwise, like I said, we're arguing to deaf ears.
Simplified:
"We read, hear, know all"-->then what's your 'verdict' so far?

 

[Sir_Brizz]

As a gunner, I can wait for someone to dodge and know that they'll be stuck on the ground for a fraction of a second, more than enough time to take advantage of it with either rockets or napalm.

Not really an argument, but as a sidenote, a rocket takes quite a bit longer to reach it's destination than a Sniper shot. As it stands right now a Ranger could tag you from halfway across the map without zooming in just because you dodge-boosted. If the Sniper were fixed and you weren't 100% accurate not zoomed in, then they would at least have to stop moving as much, zoom in, and fire...which seems a little more fair to me than just pounding out shots one after another right where you are going to land (because you have to land there, basically).

Anyways, my point is that it's no different in any other game, really. And I'm talking about anything from Quake 1 -> Unreal ->UT2004 -> Call of Duty. Knowing where someone is going to land when they jump always gives you an advantage.

 

[Mantik]

Make it as near to U2XMP's movement as physically possible. It's entirely WAY too easy on the prediction skills and generally makes them non-existent. There really is no real prediction involved anymore, it's all cold hard knowledge. If someone jumps or dodges, any player of average and above skill+aim, can.. and more than likely WILL hit them upon landing, or finishing their current movement. It's not just the sniper rifle, as that argument is only applying to the long distance aspect. It has just as much effect in the medium to close range, as Fleury pointed out with the fact that as soon as someone jumps.. a gunner can have a rocket splashing at their feet upon touching back down with the utmost of ease. The tech's shotgun or alternate fired assault rifle has the same effect. There's no weapon that can't take advantage of it, grenades included. The delay as it stands, makes it just way too easy..

But then again I am one of the people who thinks that the movement was what made XMP so enjoyable. So, my vote is that the delay needs to go. But if not, no big deal.. I just won't dodge at all, and make up for the fact that I'll be slower by systematically killing every person in front of me by having no real skill and just playing the 'waiting game' for opponents to dodge or jump. ........... Yawn.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I'll sit on the "I don't care if they change it, but I don't think it needs to be changed." pillow

Doesn't it stand to reason though, that aside from the sniper rifle, it's always splash damage weapons that gain a benefit? Because with the CAR, Shotty, Energy Rifle, Pistol, etc it's just as easy to hit someone IN the air as falling back to the ground at a specific place.

So wouldn't a better solution be to fix the splash weapons to not completely kill you in less than .0000000001 seconds?

/devil's advocate.