One more bug, and then....

[ScorpioProX]

I got a solution. How about making the raptor slower? I personally don't enjoy playing a game where the vehicles are that unbalanced. The point is having player vs player frag wars, not player vs vehicle. A game that relies on the vehicles in such a way becomes quite boring quite quickly.

There's little skill outside of manuevering and hitting your shift key at the right time to get arts this game. Oh yeah, getting out of the raptor, running through a node, maybe hacking a door or two, and being able to get back in. (I think that's the full list of skills).

Basically, game dynamic has switched over more towards vehicles. Raptor was a powerful asset in the game in u2, now it's even more. The difference between the two for the most part is the speed of the raptor. It should be slow enough that a speeding raptor at point a of the tech, can still be hit by an emp at point B (that has a relatively average arc).

The point is having player vs. player frag wars? Like in a dm game? really? I thought xmp was about tactics and team play? But you don’t know what I know

Yes takes little skill 2 do what you just said, don’t see the difference from u2xmp worked fine there 2, as long as there was no def on there base, no one drove of with my raptor (If could get one in the first place) or some one destroyed my raptor, my team m8s get eng, the enemy did not go too my base too get a arty him self, there were no enemy ppl waiting in our base too shoot me down…so yea no skill as long as your in the right place at the right time!

But I guess we all want it as it was in U2XMP raptor may be slower there…booster is more use full as well and the splash damage from the jug was bigger I think so it was more easy too hit a speeding raptor. Btw were talking about this as if there are unlimited raptors available all the time! There are not try steeling the raptor from the enemy? And keep it in your base?(just one way) And most of the games you just have too fight of the first arty run too have a long game. Something else we also could drive with a other raptor shooting the speeding raptor trying too get away down? Or is that too hard 2? The raptor is a getting away fast car needs too stay that way…but the balance is different from U2XMP liked it better there as well...

 

[dutch_gecko]

OK, I take back my hop on top of the raptor idea because Jago made a good point (IMO). I posted some time ago that it might be better if the raptor had a slightly slower top speed but a much faster acceleration, since this is what it had in U2XMP. It could also do with a tighter turning circle, but that has nothing to do with balance


P.S. http://www.syvum.com/cgi/online/serve.cgi/english/english1/ttt1.tdf

 

[W0RF]

Hmm, drive up to a node in a vehicle, get out steal artifact. Dang it, I can't get back into the vehicle because it's only a 4 vs 4 game and my other team mates are out getting energy and defending the node and I'm all by myself. And, since I can't drive a vehicle and carry the artifact I have to take off on foot. In the mean time the defender at the enemy node jumps in the vehicle I was forced to leave behind and chases me down.

Yeah, NOT being able to drive a vehicle and carry an artifact is a wonderful idea.

Games in U2XMP were ending in less than two minutes, and they were NOT ending because the raptor driver was all by himself with an artifact. So I'm having a little trouble buying the argument that people often found themselves all alone doing early art runs. Also, you have to get out of your raptor to grab the art anyway, I could jump in your raptor and drive off, or gun you down, regardless of whether you're allowed to drive. In fact, I would often drive the Raptor away in Sirocco, just to stop the other team from taking ours on their runs.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I'm not going to argue with you, from reading these boards in the past you seem to like to do that alot. It's old hat. Since you completely ignored and obviously didn't understand the last paragraph of my post, I'll elaborate. I am 100% against raptor runs. I hate them so bad, I've considered learning how to write mutators for utxmp just so I can REMOVE vehicles entirely on our server. However, that's as rediculous as the idea you mentioned on not allowing the driver to carry an artifact. That is NOT the way to fix the raptor art run problem. IMO, the balance in U2 was just about right . Players on foot were almost on an equal level when encountering a raptor or harb going by you. Harbs were slow enough to keep up with and raptors were weak and slow enough to get a couple shots on, forcing the player inside to get out and actually fight you to get by you. As of right now it's almost impossible to force a player out of his vehicle which, IMO is not how the gameplay should be.

I understood your comment, but I completely disagree with you. Can you name ONE other game where you are able to carry the flag/bomb/scrap/jive/poop or whatever else the objective might be as the driver of the fastest vehicle in the game? Because I sure as heck can't. And in those situation the person has to "get out of their vehicle" to pick up the objective, as well.

It's just NOT equal. No matter which way you try to stack it. In VCTF you have to risk someone stealing your vehicle while you grab the flag, BUT YOU CAN'T DRIVE IT anyways, so why would you run it by yourself? But even in U2XMP if you had two people running arty's you still had to leave your vehicle and risk it getting stolen, and if you then had to go on foot, so be it. The only difference is that if the driver couldn't carry an arty you would either have to have three people to do a fast win, only run one back quick, or both go back on foot. What part of that is unfair?

I don't understand how you can believe that Raptor runs are bad but letting two arty carriers in the Raptor is good?

 

[Naib]

Can you name ONE other game where you are able to carry the flag/bomb/scrap/jive/poop or whatever else the objective might be as the driver of the fastest vehicle in the game?

CTF on BF1942

 

[W0RF]

oooh Battlefield, the pinnacle of FPS brilliance. Please tell me that you at least can't carry the flag in a plane.

 

[cyb]

Why has utxmp to be like other games anyway? And for fast wins, these are even possible without raptors, if your team does not have a defence, you are screwed.

 

[Naib]

oooh Battlefield, the pinnacle of FPS brilliance. Please tell me that you at least can't carry the flag in a plane.

hey, I never said anything about the quality of the game

Yes, you can get in a plane with the flag, but that was not the biggest problem: A pilot could skim over a flag carrier, and do a high speed pick up without the need to land.

 

[PhatAzz]

The point is having player vs. player frag wars? Like in a dm game? really? I thought xmp was about tactics and team play? But you don’t know what I know

No, not a DM game, but I figured you understood what I meant. I guess I really don't know what you know.

Yes takes little skill 2 do what you just said, don’t see the difference from u2xmp worked fine there 2,

The difference is the raptor is so fast that it's much more difficult to stop then it was in u2xmp. Unless the person just got into it, I haven't seen them stopped by being shot down, even then people tend to boost as they go in and then it again becomes impossible to stop.

as long as there was no def on there base, no one drove of with my raptor (If could get one in the first place) or some one destroyed my raptor, my team m8s get eng, the enemy did not go too my base too get a arty him self, there were no enemy ppl waiting in our base too shoot me down…so yea no skill as long as your in the right place at the right time!

What?

But I guess we all want it as it was in U2XMP raptor may be slower there…booster is more use full as well and the splash damage from the jug was bigger I think so it was more easy too hit a speeding raptor.

Yes, this is what a lot of us want.

Btw were talking about this as if there are unlimited raptors available all the time!

They reset ALL the time after being destoyed, so essentially there are unlimited raptors. The number of raptors for most maps are 2, some have 4. One solution is to increase the time to resetting raptors to a higher number so that they only spawn every 3 minutes or so a game.

There are not try steeling the raptor from the enemy? And keep it in your base?(just one way)

They auto reset after sometime, unless that was removed. I don't think that tactic will always work.

Something else we also could drive with a other raptor shooting the speeding raptor trying too get away down? Or is that too hard 2?

Goddamn, have you tried doing this? Yes, it's f*cking too hard.

I understand you're playing devil's advocate, but come on man, you know EXACTLY what I'm trying to get at. And you know that I've played enough to know that this game isn't purely DM in nature; however, I do mean player vs play frag wars in that it requires player teamwork with support of vehicles. Not manned vehicles primary with support of players.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

CTF on BF1942

We could try talking about STANDARD GAMETYPES instead of Mods. Standard Battlefield is control points, not CTF. And yes, it's only one gametype.

cyb: I'm quite aware of that, but can you imagine how long that takes on Garden or VoA? if they can't nab one of your arty's by the time you can get back to your base on foot, they deserve to lose. All you can do is give them a little help, they have to do the rest. I'm simply saying that it's not easy to find other games where the vehicle offset is as high as it is in XMP, where it would be simple to change.

I'm also not saying that there aren't other ways to relax the problem, like slowing the Rap down some, and increasing the time between boosts. I'm simply offering one solution that IMO would relax it the most.

 

[Naib]

We could try talking about STANDARD GAMETYPES instead of Mods. Standard Battlefield is control points, not CTF. And yes, it's only one gametype.

It's not a mod, it's a built in game type for BF1942

 

[Sir_Brizz]

It's not a mod, it's a built in game type for BF1942

In all the years I've played BF1942 I have never played a CTF map.

 

[Emmet Otter]

I think slowing raps speed, boosts or even their re-spawn time is not a good idea imo. Its not good to slow any of the action down at all!! You would lose new players cause of this imo.

Ive said this before when playing U2XMP and i'll say it again which im sure you'll all want to wrap me in the mouth for saying this but, I think the best way to end the "quick games" would be to either doubling the energy count or decreasing the speed it gains (either or, it doesnt make a difference) so that it wouldnt be smart to raptor race the artys at the start of a game and would be wise to gain and maintain energy before one can actually register the artifacts. This will force people to not grab artys at the start of a match cause it would render a team with 2 lesser people cause now the arty carrriers have to hide out and wait for teamates to maintain energy to register. This can automatically change the flow of the game greatly and increase intense fights for energy than to rush for artys. This will also give people time to position themselves on their defense/deployables and not bore off noobs on 2 minute games.

This can screw a team that spams deploys cause when they lose energy and it drops like a brick, it will have to take twice as long to get it back up.

Think about how this can drastically change the flow of a game into a much funner lengthier deathmatch

.........or you can just beef up your defense at start

As much as I dont like changes from an already great game like U2XMP, this was something that I always felt that would greatly improve the game flow drastically.


..........think about it

 

[JaGo]

...<snip>
..........think about it

/me Wraps Emmet in the mouth.



Leaving the energy level for registering arts at 800 is fine. The mappers control how fast you get there by determining how much energy a gen pumps out.

 

[PhatAzz]

I think slowing raps speed, boosts or even their re-spawn time is not a good idea imo. Its not good to slow any of the action down at all!! You would lose new players cause of this imo.

I know players right now so turned off from the raptor that they don't play. These are vets who used to play u2xmp on a daily basis for a couple hours. So, either loose these guys or some of the "other" guys you are talking about.

Ive said this before when playing U2XMP and i'll say it again which im sure you'll all want to wrap me in the mouth for saying this but, I think the best way to end the "quick games" would be to either doubling the energy count or ......ide out and wait for teamates to maintain energy to register. This can automatically change the flow of the game greatly and increase intense fights for energy than to rush for artys. This will also give people time to position themselves on their defense/deployables and not bore off noobs on 2 minute games.

This seems like slowing down the action as much as anything else.

 

[Emmet Otter]

sniff............sniff

 

[IndianPsycho]

BREEEOOOW

 

[fireball]

v51.

 

[ScorpioProX]

Hmmm well I'm new too xmp WHAHAHAHA ok well enough about skill speeds and stuff i give up LOL whatever... too bad FMI wont make prived XMPS for every one well i guess most of us just want u2XMP! That seemd too work just fine

I think the best way to end the "quick games" would be to either doubling the energy count or decreasing the speed it gains (either or, it doesnt make a difference) so that it wouldnt be smart to raptor race the artys at the start of a game and would be wise to gain and maintain energy before one can actually register the artifacts. This will force people to not grab artys at the start of a match cause it would render a team with 2 lesser people cause now the arty carrriers have to hide out and wait for teamates to maintain energy to register. This can automatically change the flow of the game greatly and increase intense fights for energy than to rush for artys. This will also give people time to position themselves on their defense/deployables and not bore off noobs on 2 minute games.

Yes lol off all i saw here this is the best thing too do if you want too do anything bout the 2 minute games...So NOOBS wont get bored...on the othere hand GOOD teams wont need it but should not have any problem with this.

 

[W0RF]

Yes, you can get in a plane with the flag, but that was not the biggest problem: A pilot could skim over a flag carrier, and do a high speed pick up without the need to land.

Would you agree that's kind of a cheap way to play CTF?

well i guess most of us just want u2XMP!

... well... yeah

This wasn't supposed to be some newfangled game, it was supposed to be a full conversion from U2 onto Ut2k4. The stated intention of the modders was to recreate the U2XMP experience as much as possible, so there have not really been a lot of gameplay tweaks:
- the physics and particles are going to be different automatically because of the different engine versions
- utilizing 2k4's much-improved netcode is an obvious plus
- the vehicle code was different so vehicles will automatically drive a little differently. Which is fine by me, the Raptor felt like I was driving on glass.

Now there have been some tiny tweaks to try and balance some of the unbalanced issues in the U2 version, but it wasn't that bad to begin with. I think some of the current balance issues just stem from the fact that they haven't quite matched up the behavior of the weapons/movement/vehicles with the original (e.g. vehicle speeds). Once those issues (and the respawn bug) are ironed out, I think it will be a lot closer to U2, AND a lot closer to a kickass experience.