One more bug, and then....

[MÆST]

I love Valley of the Apes, but one of the raptors in each base really ought to go. (Same thing with Crashflight). The physical speed of the raptors don't seem like a problem to me nor do arti carriers driving them. It's annoying when practically every person on a team has a vehicle driving around doing their own runs.

 

[dutch_gecko]

Drivers not being able to carry artis seems good to me. You don't need a harby, because one carrier can hop on top of the vehicle. It's risky, since they could get crushed and are more vulnerable, but it encourages the teamwork since you now need three to get an arti with a raptor.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Exactly. The problem with it now is that, since there are only two arti's to steal, a well coordinated team can defend and grab in a matter of a couple minutes. Most games have realized that letting people drive fast vehicles with the "objective" is not a good idea.

 

[Gumby]

...the Raptor is too fast. People on foot have no chance against it...

Well done sherlock Can you expect to outrun a car in real life?

It's well easy to hit if you time the nades right

edit: just noticed what's written in the post above - in reality only a team with a huge skill difference can pull it off...

 

[XMP.Arc]

Exactly. The problem with it now is that, since there are only two arti's to steal, a well coordinated team can defend and grab in a matter of a couple minutes. Most games have realized that letting people drive fast vehicles with the "objective" is not a good idea.

ummm.... not to mention that you should have a little defense to prevent someone from getting all ur arti's.
raptor driver's should be able to carry arti's. this is part of the game balance and strategy. you must defend your base or you will lose everything in a few minutes

 

[FunGun]

I agree that there has to be some way to stop raptors. As it is at the moment you have hardly any chance to hit a raptor as ranger(even though its not really a rangers job to destroy those...) if you are behind it.

And the crushing...Duh I get crushed by my own raptor 1/3 times(whenever I'm not paying enough attention ) It's like way too easy to get crushed by your own raptor after exiting...Dunno about you but it really gets on my nerves.

 

[ScorpioProX]

raptors are too slow IMO...harby is almost just as fast...and wont blow up when you look at it...takes a bit more skill to drive that’s all...if you cant hit raptors while they are driving try harder...and why are you walking after raptors anywayz?? Get a jug and shoot it...tactics...try being at the right place at the right time...even a arty in a raptor have too get out at one point...and how and were did he get in in the first place? Maybe you had too shoot him before he drove off or at least if that was too hard, shot his raptor so he had too walk...but what do I know...

 

[PhatAzz]

raptors are too slow IMO...harby is almost just as fast...

Harby is faster than it was in u2, but still you can have a decent chance of hitting it a couple times.

and wont blow up when you look at it...takes a bit more skill to drive that’s all...

Raptors aren't that weak. They actually can be driven without many problem on wide open maps. But again, a raptor is usually placed on a map where it can be driven without many problems. People are learning how to maneuver through the terrain with minimal damage.

if you cant hit raptors while they are driving try harder...and why are you walking after raptors anywayz?? Get a jug and shoot it...tactics...try being at the right place at the right time...

Have you tried hitting a speeding raptor with a jug? Good luck. I'm pretty sure it's near impossible. The boosted raptor may actually be just SLIGHT slower than the projectile. Right place at the right time? Laugh that thought.

even a arty in a raptor have too get out at one point...and how and were did he get in in the first place?

Yes, this is true. They do have to get in and they do have to get out. Whee, let's have a game where we camp most of the raptors and hang out at the enemy bases. Screw everything else!!! Hurrah. Sounds like fun to me. The raptors are so fast, that even if you hurt them until the point of smoke as a trap...with a good driver, they still get away without you having a chance to hit it.

Maybe you had too shoot him before he drove off or at least if that was too hard, shot his raptor so he had too walk...but what do I know...

I got a solution. How about making the raptor slower? I personally don't enjoy playing a game where the vehicles are that unbalanced. The point is having player vs player frag wars, not player vs vehicle. A game that relies on the vehicles in such a way becomes quite boring quite quickly.

There's little skill outside of manuevering and hitting your shift key at the right time to get arts this game. Oh yeah, getting out of the raptor, running through a node, maybe hacking a door or two, and being able to get back in. (I think that's the full list of skills).

Basically, game dynamic has switched over more towards vehicles. Raptor was a powerful asset in the game in u2, now it's even more. The difference between the two for the most part is the speed of the raptor. It should be slow enough that a speeding raptor at point a of the tech, can still be hit by an emp at point B (that has a relatively average arc).

Btw, I don't know what you know.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I also think not allowing (at least) Raptor driving to carry arty would help even things out, simply because you then have to have at least 2 people to make ONE fast arty grab and three people to win the match (taking away from valuable base defense). Like I said, most other games have figured out that letting the driver of the fastest vehicle in the game carry whatever the "objective" is is not a good idea.

 

[GotBeer?]

Back on thread topic...

PhatAzz's list of fixes before it's scrimmable and my thoughts:

1) Reload bug - Waiting for a weapon to reload before switching to another isn't a bug, it's intentional (according to early posts by FMI). The bug is when you try to switch when reloading and you weapon selector shows the new weap, but you don't switch.
2) Grenade delay/bug - The time between shots is WAY too long. Often (and it actually seems to be getting worse), the gl goes through the animation and sound of firing, but nothing is launched, even with full ammo. This has killed me several times.
3) Spawning issues - Not being able to respawn without hitting F4 then your team# is a huge problem, because
a) it doesn't always let you select your spawn point, and
b) if teams are unbalanced you're liable to end up forced to the other team (happened to me Saturday) - not something you want happening during a scrim.
4) Turrets - Could be louder, but at least you can see them now.
5) Raptor speed - It and the Harby do need to be slowed to U2 speeds. The Harby only because it's already close to Raptor speed; we don't need them equal.

Of the 5, only 2 and 3 are really big enough to affect the game measurably, IMO.

 

[PhatAzz]

Reload bug: well that's what I'm talking about. When you're reloading you can't switch etc. Same difference.

If you have played this build enough with people who spam turrets, you'll notice 2 things. 1) Turrets aren't anywhere as loud as they were in u2, some people say it's loud enough, but it's definitely different than u2xmp.
2) The strength of the turrets is still pretty strong. Usually in u2, if you didn't know there was a turret, you had time to localize it from the sound, then look for the muzzle flashes, and then destroy it without loosing all of your health. In utxmp, you're looking at probably dying at least once just to figure out where it is. There's something wrong with that altogether. The localization and destructiong of a turret shouldn't have to kill a person.
3) The other important fact is that the tech is a very strong class already, you give the tech these turrets, which I think are slightly too strong already, you got an even stronger class.
4) I'd ask to move the turrets to the Gunner, and move the mines to the techs, if I had my own perogative about these things.

 

[JaGo]

Hmm, drive up to a node in a vehicle, get out steal artifact. Dang it, I can't get back into the vehicle because it's only a 4 vs 4 game and my other team mates are out getting energy and defending the node and I'm all by myself. And, since I can't drive a vehicle and carry the artifact I have to take off on foot. In the mean time the defender at the enemy node jumps in the vehicle I was forced to leave behind and chases me down.


Yeah, NOT being able to drive a vehicle and carry an artifact is a wonderful idea.


The vehicles just need to be balanced. Both the Harb and the Raptor are way too fast. Tweak the boost and the top speed to U2 levels and the balance will be fine. That's all that's needed.

 

[PhatAzz]

Nvermind the turrets on the gunner, forgot about the resupply packs...would be bad.

 

[Naib]

1) Turrets aren't anywhere as loud as they were in u2, some people say it's loud enough, but it's definitely different than u2xmp.

I think it's the range in which you hear a turret that is the problem. A turret over a certain distance makes no noise at all

 

[GotBeer?]

Nvermind the turrets on the gunner, forgot about the resupply packs...would be bad.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Hmm, drive up to a node in a vehicle, get out steal artifact. Dang it, I can't get back into the vehicle because it's only a 4 vs 4 game and my other team mates are out getting energy and defending the node and I'm all by myself. And, since I can't drive a vehicle and carry the artifact I have to take off on foot. In the mean time the defender at the enemy node jumps in the vehicle I was forced to leave behind and chases me down.


Yeah, NOT being able to drive a vehicle and carry an artifact is a wonderful idea.


The vehicles just need to be balanced. Both the Harb and the Raptor are way too fast. Tweak the boost and the top speed to U2 levels and the balance will be fine. That's all that's needed.

Oh that's a great argument, let's make it easy to win because there are less people playing?

It would be more fair if you had to run on foot, plain and simple.

 

[JaGo]

Oh that's a great argument, let's make it easy to win because there are less people playing?

It would be more fair if you had to run on foot, plain and simple.

I'm not going to argue with you, from reading these boards in the past you seem to like to do that alot. It's old hat. Since you completely ignored and obviously didn't understand the last paragraph of my post, I'll elaborate. I am 100% against raptor runs. I hate them so bad, I've considered learning how to write mutators for utxmp just so I can REMOVE vehicles entirely on our server. However, that's as rediculous as the idea you mentioned on not allowing the driver to carry an artifact. That is NOT the way to fix the raptor art run problem. IMO, the balance in U2 was just about right . Players on foot were almost on an equal level when encountering a raptor or harb going by you. Harbs were slow enough to keep up with and raptors were weak and slow enough to get a couple shots on, forcing the player inside to get out and actually fight you to get by you. As of right now it's almost impossible to force a player out of his vehicle which, IMO is not how the gameplay should be.

 

[pistos]

2) The strength of the turrets is still pretty strong. Usually in u2, if you didn't know there was a turret, you had time to localize it from the sound, then look for the muzzle flashes, and then destroy it without loosing all of your health. In utxmp, you're looking at probably dying at least once just to figure out where it is. There's something wrong with that altogether. The localization and destructiong of a turret shouldn't have to kill a person.

I don't see anything wrong with you dying once before you find my turret. I like it that way.

Seriously, what would be the point of turrets at all if they were as weak as you want to make them?

I personally have no problem with the strength or behavior of them in UTXMP just they way they are. They are effective, but not overwhelming or impossible to deal with. Make them any weaker and they become a pointless waste of team energy.

As far as the sound of them goes, again I do not understand all the complaining. They are loud enough for me to hear. When I am playing defense, I sometimes place a turret facing an entrance point, and I will listen for the turret to give away the enemy coming into my base. I can hear that turret on the other end of the base just fine.

 

[GotBeer?]

Seriously, what would be the point of turrets at all if they were as weak as you want to make them?

Turrets aren't meant to be a primary defense, just supplemental to an actual defender. And the problem with the sound is that it drops off really quick, so you can be within the turret's range and not be able to hear it.

 

[fireball]

I actually think the turrets' range is dropped horribly in UTXMP. And I wish they targetted deployables as well again.
However, they ARE too quiet and too powerful. Well, at least the auto turret is.