Michael Capps Replies To Greg Costikyan's Accusations Of Overworking Employees

[ambershee]

It's pretty depressing the industry still works this way, wake the hell up and figure out how much time is needed to release good solid games, this endless parade of half done, buggy and severely crippled releases needs to end allready.

Every products got a cash budget and a time budget. Go over either budget, and it's going to cost profits. Go too far, and the product won't return enough to enable production of the next product.

The industry has got to work that way. If it didn't, we'd see a whole load of publishers sitting on a collection of Duke Nukem Forever's, and with very empty pockets.

 

[Grobut]

Still seeing a bunch of "I think I know what I'm talking about"

Because we do, and that's not just idle fact, it's cold, hard speculation!

But honestly now, it doesen't take an industry insider to figure out that games like UT3 and GoW2 could have used a few more months in the oven for polishing.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Just because UT3 doesn't have a billion players doesn't mean it somehow "killed the franchise". The game has sold as well as UT ever has, so Epic has no reason to abandon it completely forever.

 

[evilmrfrank]

Because we do, and that's not just idle fact, it's cold, hard speculation!

But honestly now, it doesen't take an industry insider to figure out that games like UT3 and GoW2 could have used a few more months in the oven for polishing.

No, it doesn't, I'm talking about all the complaints about how things should have been done from people who still don't understand how things were done in the first place. I don't know what they did or how they did it so I don't try to speculate, neither should anyone who doesn't work at Epic.

 

[Grobut]

Every products got a cash budget and a time budget. Go over either budget, and it's going to cost profits. Go too far, and the product won't return enough to enable production of the next product.

The industry has got to work that way. If it didn't, we'd see a whole load of publishers sitting on a collection of Duke Nukem Forever's, and with very empty pockets.

Thats fair enough, but it seems the industry has gone into the opposite extreme, which is to not give a toss about the quality of the product, just kick it out the door on time.

This is no better, badly broken, hollowed out games aren't going to sell well at all, whereas with a little more work they could have been a success, giving the Dev's 3 more months could be the difference between selling a few hundred thousand copies, and selling 2 million copies, hell knows there are many games i would have bought, had it not been for the bugs and the lack of polish and functionality i kept hearing people complain about, that, or i wait till they hit rock bottom and cost a tenner in the bargain bin.

Besides, they are badly undermining customer confidence in the market, why continue buying games if they are allmost allways feel like bad rush jobs? everyone knows there are free ways to get games.. and they might just go that route because they don't feel the final product is worth the asking price.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Maybe that makes a better case for lowering the cost of games some amount.

 

[Grobut]

Maybe that makes a better case for lowering the cost of games some amount.

That'd probably be a good idea, yes, especially on digital distros (remind me again why they need to cost the same as a physical disc?), but it's no fix really, offering a discount because your product is broken.. well why not fix it instead?

 

[Wander]

A lot of the more 'complex' stuff like locational damage has already been implemented in other games, or even by community modders (see BW, for example). So yes, it's certainly realistic. Detailed & original / fun / sexy models and maps don't cost more than detailed but bland & boring models and maps. Also, as mentioned above, a lot of extra content could have been obtianed for (almost) free from modders, IF they'd given them the proper support & incentives.

First of all I want to say that I know my previous post came across as a bit offensive, and I'm happy that you, judging from your reaction to it, didn't take it personal.

Having a handful of experience in modding I suspect that Epic simply put their priorities elsewhere. Modding is one thing, building an entire game from scratch is another. There are so many hundreds of thousands of tiny little details and aspects the average joe isn't probably even aware of that need to be done in order for the game just to make it work. So a developer must set its priorities into developing the game, and from what I've seen from pre-release interviews these were primarily getting the movement right, getting weapon balance right, getting the vehicles and gametypes right.

Getting all these numbers balanced, the movement speed, fire rate, fire power, projectile speed, and so on for each individual weapon and vehicle sounds like a pretty insanely hard job to me. And in the grand scheme of things, that's probably only just a small portion of what goes into developing a game. On top of that, a developer can't say: "oh that's cool, we'll just do that", because all too often things go wrong and have to be revised and redone (that's what happened to Warfare, for instance). Sure, one could logically suggest pushing the release date back, but there are both fans and the publisher breathing in the developer's necks that eventually start to grow impatient.

I'm just trying to point out that getting all those things in there isn't as obvious as it may seem.

 

[Forgetful]

Michael Capps talks a lot more than he should. I don't know why he thinks he has this profound knowledge on how everyone should live their life within the game industry. I find that there are far more intelligent people out there to listen to on the subject.

Working crazy overtime and miss managing deadlines is a huge burden to new talent in the game industry. All you end up doing is burning out new talent and leaving them with a sour taste in their mouths towards the game industry.

I think perhaps Michael Capps should read this article written by someone who's a little more - dare I say - "intelligent".

Academic Expansion - How Rare Recruits Graduates

 

[elmuerte]

Because we do, and that's not just idle fact, it's cold, hard speculation!

(emphasis mine)

Come again? Speculation is (in general) just a synonym of talking out of your ass claiming you know what you're talking about.

That'd probably be a good idea, yes, especially on digital distros (remind me again why they need to cost the same as a physical disc?), but it's no fix really, offering a discount because your product is broken.. well why not fix it instead?

The costs of producing physics copies isn't that high, it fact it's quite low. The physical retailers take a large cut, a cut that you can easily factor out with digital distribution. Yet... digital distribution is just as expensive for the customer. The developer probably will get a higher cut.

Michael Capps talks a lot more than he should. I don't know why he thinks he has this profound knowledge on how everyone should live their life within the game industry. I find that there are far more intelligent people out there to listen to on the subject.

Really? So instead of talking, what should Capps do? You are aware that his role in Epic Games is President. He's also on the board of directors of IGDA and Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences. Which, effectively, means that his main task is talking with people.

I think perhaps Michael Capps should read this article written by someone who's a little more - dare I say - "intelligent".

Academic Expansion - How Rare Recruits Graduates

BOLD LARGE FONT is so cool.

Could you explain why he should read that article? Should Epic hire more Bachelor/Master/PhDs rather than skillful people from the community? Or are you not aware of the number of people with no prior professional industry experience where hired by Epic in the past 15 years?

 

[Grobut]

Come again? Speculation is (in general) just a synonym of talking out of your ass claiming you know what you're talking about.

Uhhm yeah.. therein lies the obvious joke you missed.

 

[elmuerte]

meh... was skimming most of the posts anyway

 

[Bersy]

But honestly now, it doesen't take an industry insider to figure out that games like UT3 and GoW2 could have used a few more months in the oven for polishing.

Time isn't the issue, they had plenty of it. Lack of direction was, that and too many cooks ruining the soup imo (Midway koff). As has become the trend they just tried to pass off a bunch of "cool" ideas as the next gen thing, and nobody was biting. I think that especially where UT is concerned, they could use some people behind the helm who understand the franchise from a wide range of perspectives. And certainly they need to keep something on PC only, especially now that working sales models are emerging again and they can't use the "console will be more successful" card.. If UT3 proved anything, it is that developing it across 3 platforms simultaneously didn't turn out to be the slam dunk they were hoping for.

The question now is not what platform a future Unreal title should be, I firmly believe that the answer is "PC first". The question is now "what" and "when". I am not sure a UT4 is the best thing for either Epic or fans of the series. I think that it is time for Unreal to evolve into something else, and I think that it deserves some genuine thought to take it in a unique direction, and not just do the obvious "let's go MMO".

 

[ambershee]

I'm thinking the tournament should be taken online, personally. I don't however think the MMO route is a particularily good translation, however. Overcrowded market, and not the best way to take a franchise whose success is based upon being a fast paced, first person shooter.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

If UT3 proved anything, it is that developing it across 3 platforms simultaneously didn't turn out to be the slam dunk they were hoping for.

Depends on how you mean that. Did it sell well? Yes. Does it have billions of players? No. But "having players", especially online, isn't a good indicator of whether a sequel will be made or if the decisions made on that title will be changed the next time around.

 

[Bersy]

Face it, UT is supposed to be an online game, and lack of numbers in that area makes it look bad, regardless of how many copies they ship or sell online. Especially when it's like 10-20 bucks a pop nowadays.. If it's that cheap and people still barely play it online, it's time to rethink the strategy.

And in regard to the multiple platforms, I'm not saying it was an entire dud, but so much untapped potential, I really think cross platform should have been planned in from the get-go. Then you have the difficulties surrounding bonus content, especially xbox side, it seems like xbox was a ball and chain slowing them down when they could have used the time, money and resources to make the PC and PC3 versions stronger.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

At this point, it doesn't matter how much it costs. People are already playing other games instead of "that old UT game". They aren't going to buy it and start playing it now.

Epic is a business and businesses are driven by $$ not online numbers, regardless of what the game is. Personally, I hope that the sales and lack of online numbers convince Epic to develop a new single player Unreal game with good 4 player co-op and built in decent VoIP.

 

[elmuerte]

Face it, UT is supposed to be an online game, and lack of numbers in that area makes it look bad, regardless of how many copies they ship or sell online. Especially when it's like 10-20 bucks a pop nowadays.. If it's that cheap and people still barely play it online, it's time to rethink the strategy.

Face it, people are not interesting the UT kind of games. It has nothing to do with the quality of UT3, people just prefer a different type of FPS.


ps, neat, got my own tag. Must defeat dark purple.

 

[Bersy]

At this point, it doesn't matter how much it costs. People are already playing other games instead of "that old UT game". They aren't going to buy it and start playing it now.

Epic is a business and businesses are driven by $$ not online numbers, regardless of what the game is. Personally, I hope that the sales and lack of online numbers convince Epic to develop a new single player Unreal game with good 4 player co-op and built in decent VoIP.

My post had nothing to do with getting people to play the game again, what I said was that a UT4 probably isn't in anyone's best interests and that I think it's time for Unreal to go in another direction. "that old UT game". Well exactly. It's been that for a while now, even before UT3 came along, people were getting weary, and yet, we all hoped UT3 would offer something almost magical that would bring everyone together again. But it didn't come close to doing that, even though on some levels it did find a good balance, without the right overall direction that positive work didn't get noticed. It's not that UT is incapable of being popular, but the chances of them finding the "right" formula with it becomes exceedingly less likely with each new iteration.

I think how UT does has less to do with what other games are out there, and more to do with the fact that it's just basically been done to death by now. No matter what new coat you put on UT, it's more or less the same thing. X weapon or move being there or not being there doesn't really have all that much to do with it either, that's something only the most hardcore of nostalgic players rant about.

You've probably got the right idea that the next game needs to be based on the original Unreal, and I do mean based on it, not just loosely. It needs to evoke the same feel. At the same time, I doubt anyone would be averse to a good and focused multiplayer aspect, as long as the single player came first and was outstanding. I also think that whatever the multiplayer aspect might be, would have to be accessible to the average player. Let's leave the super complex moves in UT, and let something new evolve. It doesn't have to have anything to do with a Tournament setting to be fun, in fact I think it would open things up a lot more.

But anyway I suppose this is getting further and further off the topic.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

We pretty much agree, although I have a hard time thinking that a UT game will ever be as "popular" as UT was.