Is INF all about 5.56 Assault Rifles?

[Rostam]

By lying down you will effectively look less like a human, and allow your camo to work with the background.

Well Mr. Know-it-all, how about you become Mr. Know-it-all-with-arguments.

 

[yurch]

An argument is implied in the word 'silly'. Lying prone isn't how I catch my breath, either. Imagine that in the next sporting event.

 

[Rostam]

Sure lieing down won't be as good to catch your breath... let's see:
"Anyway I don't think going prone should recharge stamina that quick. I mean when you lie down you aren't exactly comfortable or something."



What I meant was the stuff with the cover.

 

[yurch]

...when it's not necessary for cover...

 

[cracwhore]

The reason why you gain more "stamina" while prone is because that's how it works in real life. When you lie down, you body has better circulation. Your heart has to work less and more oxygen gets to where it needs to go....

That's how it works in real life and that's how it should work here.

 

[Logan6]

Wow snake, you can talk in coherent sentences. Maybe you should do that next time instead of acting like an ******* and going around insulting people. As for the cops on "COPS" knowing some things, I'll go by the research of an actual cop with field experience far more than some nameless voices off the internet. Now maybe some of you do have actual military experience, but of course some of you are just a bunch of 12 year olds claiming all kinds of ****. So apologies to those who are real, but I pretty much assume those with loud insulting mouths are the 12 year olds.

As for the new weapons pack release, kudos for the people who worked on it, but I find it a little unrealistic and a step towards a counter strike clone. For instance, the M4 has little if any recoil and is totally deadly. Tooooo powerful. It makes the M16A2 look like **** and the subguns worthless.
If thats what some people want, power to em, there's enough servers for everybody, but I hope that the majority will keep to Vanilla INF which I find to be the most realistic so far.

To Nukeproof,

Hmm, you say you don't want to see a reservist style simulation going, but really Road to Kandahar and the bigger maps are what I enjoy, and they more regular infantry style maps where sniper rifles and long guns are going to be used. And actually thats what I like to play. Every other game on the market is spec ops. It gets boring ( and a little unrealistic ) after a while with people carrying silenced, scoped, laser sighted, compensated micro uzis that punch through lvl 3 vests in tight confined maps. Inf was breath of fresh air with its much bigger maps and realistic weapons. Now that I understand how the scope is being used after much discussion, Im even ok with it. Hopefully, SS won't change a thing about the weapons play in the 2.9 bonus pack. My only complaint is maybe that the M249 rotates around a little too much. That I would like to see changed.

 

[Meplat]

This kind of went awry..

Anyhow, something I can bore everyone about, thouroughly..


I have seen VERY light (first generation Second Chance vest) stop a 12 gauge slug. Stopped.Dead. Cop suffered a broken collarbone, and a big, really colorful bruise.

I have been shot, while wearing armor. (.38 Special +P+, over my right kidney. Hurt, but not anywhere near incapacating.) Vest was an unusually heavy unit though, composed of the CVC spall vest carrier, and the inserts from one "Point Blank" vest, plus the spall vest liner. (Looked like I gained 5 pounds when I wore it.)

From tests, the penetration of kevlar is almost exclusively a matter of combining sectional density, velocity, and projectile construction. A small diameter, immensely stable, and hard projectile will stand a greater chance of penetrating, than a large, unstable and soft one. For a long time, the greatest threat to someone wearing soft armor was the .22 Winchester Magnum, followed by the (then) rare 7.62 Tokarev SMG round. Either could be found in a handgun, and with the exception of the weird Grendel G-30, they were very inexpensive.

If someone REALLY wants to be bored I have a metric assload of pics taken from the majority of IWBA (International Wound Ballistics Association) events held at Yuma Proving Grounds. Lots of high speed pics of slugs going through stuff.

 

[geogob]

Logan, Are you finished?

Now go prone and take a breath.

 

[geogob]

If someone REALLY wants to be bored I have a metric assload of pics taken from the majority of IWBA (International Wound Ballistics Association) events held at Yuma Proving Grounds. Lots of high speed pics of slugs going through stuff.

Please...

 

[AlmostAlive]

Logan, playing the "only morons insult people" -card and then proceeding to insult people sorta takes the punch out of your post.

Anyways, people play what they want and in many ways Infiltration stays alive because of the people who dedicate time and effort into making weapons, mutators and maps for the game. We all owe them.

 

[Rostam]

cracwhore I seriously doubt that. When you go prone you would apply pressure to your chest, and the position you would take wouldn't allow your lungs to fully fill up.
From what I understand, you are best to catch your breath when easily walking around with your shoulders spread so there is room for your lungs to expand.

 

[ecale3]

Wow snake, you can talk in coherent sentences. Maybe you should do that next time instead of acting like an ******* and going around insulting people. As for the cops on "COPS" knowing some things, I'll go by the research of an actual cop with field experience far more than some nameless voices off the internet. Now maybe some of you do have actual military experience, but of course some of you are just a bunch of 12 year olds claiming all kinds of ****. So apologies to those who are real, but I pretty much assume those with loud insulting mouths are the 12 year olds.

As for the new weapons pack release, kudos for the people who worked on it, but I find it a little unrealistic and a step towards a counter strike clone. For instance, the M4 has little if any recoil and is totally deadly. Tooooo powerful. It makes the M16A2 look like **** and the subguns worthless.
If thats what some people want, power to em, there's enough servers for everybody, but I hope that the majority will keep to Vanilla INF which I find to be the most realistic so far.

To Nukeproof,

Hmm, you say you don't want to see a reservist style simulation going, but really Road to Kandahar and the bigger maps are what I enjoy, and they more regular infantry style maps where sniper rifles and long guns are going to be used. And actually thats what I like to play. Every other game on the market is spec ops. It gets boring ( and a little unrealistic ) after a while with people carrying silenced, scoped, laser sighted, compensated micro uzis that punch through lvl 3 vests in tight confined maps. Inf was breath of fresh air with its much bigger maps and realistic weapons. Now that I understand how the scope is being used after much discussion, Im even ok with it. Hopefully, SS won't change a thing about the weapons play in the 2.9 bonus pack. My only complaint is maybe that the M249 rotates around a little too much. That I would like to see changed.

1. Shotguns slugs and pellets are made of lead, no jacket on em, they are simply not made to penetrate body armor. The likelyhood of it penetrating is very very slim, even at close range. Thats why the cops couldn't take down the guys invovled in the north hollywood shootout a few years back, the 9mm's and Shotguns simply couldn't penetrate the guys' body armor. That's why the cops went and got AR-15's.

2. The M4 is far from the supergun you make it out to be. Anything i can do with the M4, i can do with the SIG, or FAMAS, or M16A2/A4, or even the P90 or MP5/40. Its that simple. The attachments are different, and people may like it more, but in the end its just another gun.

3. I find it insulting that you would compare our work (INF MOD Weapons Pack) to counter-strike. It does not take 2 magazines to take down a target, the ROF's are as correct as our information warranted, and we worked damn hard on it. We work on these weapons for two reasons, because we enjoy it, and because we want to prolong the life of a game we enjoy. However we still want the community to enjoy it. This stuff is made to be used, even by asshole's like you logan.

 

[})FA|Snake]

First off, Rostam is correct about the laying down putting pressure on your chest, the thing is though, when people are shooting at you, every piece of cover warrents laying down (or at least it seems that way).

Secondly, most cops don't know **** about firearms, they fire it at the range just enough to meet regulations and otherwise don't touch it. On that matter, alot of soldiers aren't exactly perfect sources either (case in point, you), generally they are damn good for info on whatever weapon they were trained on, but I've heard a few spout off a lot of crap before (I can't think of anyone else from the forum, so no, I'm not trying attack anyone, I'm mostly thinking of a few guys I know IRL).

That said, the M4 was designed and implemented by Bushwack, who's service record escapes me at the moment, but it is based off his personal experiance with the weapon. So I tend to take the combat vet's word over the weekend warrior.

 

[Bushwack]

actually, i had nothing to do with the M4, i offered my input, other than that, someone else modelled it, someone else skinned it, and someone else coded it, there IS a WHOLE TEAM working on these weapons guys ;P

As for the arguement for the M4 being super powerful, you 'intelligencia' should bother to actually look at the actual weapons ballistic code before spouting off the pseudointellectual rambling thats its overpowered, the SIG, the FAMAS, the old M16, the M16a4, and the M4, all use the EXACT SAME BALLISTIC CODE.
Not to mention, for all intents and purposes, at the ranges in Infiltration, you DO NOT NEED TO KNITPICK the reality of the ranges of the firearms, there are NO maps save for one {RtK} that utilize even remotely the ranges most of the assault rifles are actually capable of reaching.
So please, get over your supposed information, and bashing of our team created weapons, because tot he best of my knowledge, as long as i have been here, i have NEVER, EVER seen a "OMG TEH FAMAS UBERGUN!!!1111!!" thread.

once more, please read carefully, ill post it large for the slower crowd:

[FAMAS]
MaxRange=32400.000000
EffectiveRange=19800.000000
BulletWeight=2.500000
Damage=40.000000
INFDamageType=FAMAS
GAirNeg=-1.752750
GAirRes=0.999956
Zero=(Pitch=14)
speed=39600.000000

[FAMAS suppressed]
Damage=35.000000
INFDamageType=FAMASSub

[M16]
MaxRange=32400.000000
EffectiveRange=19800.000000
BulletWeight=2.500000
Damage=40.000000
INFDamageType=M16
GAirNeg=-1.752750
GAirRes=0.999956
Zero=(Pitch=14)
speed=39600.000000

[SIG551]
MaxRange=32400.000000
EffectiveRange=19800.000000
BulletWeight=2.500000
Damage=35.000000
INFDamageType=SIG551
GAirNeg=-1.752750
GAirRes=0.999956
Zero=(Pitch=14)
speed=39600.000000

Pretty much says it all doesnt it? {for the UTcode stupid, ill explain it simpler, all these weapons have the same speed projectile, some do more damage than others, but the essential speed is the same, none penetrates more than any other}.
These gripes regarding the M4 are unfounded, for these reasons:
1: the code above is pretty self explanatory
2: the weapons is fullauto, with a higher rate of fire than the sig,when your hit with it, your hit with roughly 3 X the amount of lead the standard INF m16 fires, deal with it, its realistic.
3: the weapons recoil, even on full auto, very little, its essentially the same as a standard INF M16 regarding recoil {we could all go GOOGLE some results on recoil on the M16 series of firearms, and i, and quite a few others could write volumes about how low it is in real life} single fire, 3 round burst or otherwise. By all means please feel free to argue with Sentry Studios on the adjusted recoil on the M249 SAW, which is compared to its real life counterpart ridiculously high ingame.
4: its NEW, everyone wants to whore it, it will die down with the upcoming pack #2, which our team is hard at work on, and we loveingly await yet more cheerful GOOD JOBS, and THANX for from this community.


Bottom line is, if you dont like them, or dont appreciate the work we all put into them, dont use them, and dont play on any servers running them, we DID NOT MAKE THEM FOR YOU, WE MADE THEM FOR OURSELVES, in our obvious mistake to give BACK to this community, we inadvertantly released them for you to all whine and piss and moan about, our mistake...


Thank you, please carry on the useless arguements herein...

BW out!

 

[ant75]

I think *almost* everybody knew from the start that all rifles had basically the same power. But since all rifles use the same ballistics it's the little details that make the difference. You have to admit the combination of 5.56+reflex sight+suppressor+full auto makes the m4 quite deadly. I mean the simple fact that so many people use it speaks for itself i think. Maybe it will wear down a bit like some may think, but i'm not sure the argument of the novelty appeal really stands here, since we never saw that kind of enthusiasm for any of the weapons that were released before. Whether it's a problem or not gameplay wise is not my point here, but to deny that the effectiveness of the M4 explains for the most part its popularity would question the rationality of the many players that use it.

 

[{GD}Ghost]

Some people think that weapons should be purposely made difficult to use in-game, hence the whining, pissing and moaning about <insert weapon name here>. In my opinion, a weapon's ease/difficulty of use should be modeled as closely as possible to how it is in real life. I may be wrong, but IRL, weapons in current use have been optimized for both ease of use and effectiveness in one way or another. The performance of a weapon in INF should not be purposely altered in any way, shape or form if it is possible to model it correctly and accurately. There are enough unrealistic "features" in INF due to the limitations of the engine.

A few of us here have experience with some of the weapons represented in INF. For some, it is limited experience and others, it is extensive. Strangely enough, not many people seem to put much value in stock in those who have first hand knowledge. All opinions and hearsay and 2nd/3rd hand information aside, I'd rather take the word of those who have first hand experience with both the real life counterparts of INF weapons AND with the INF weapons as they perform in game, on wheather their performance ingame is modelled correctly.

Unless you, yourself have personal experience with these weapons, it is kinda ignorant to come here spouting crap you read or heard from this or that source as that **** can have as many variations as the story of what really happened on prom night. If the opinions of several people with good first hand experience with both INF and the real life counter parts of INF weapons jive, I'd say that is as damn near as accurate info as you can get.

Oh yeah and Snake, I'd watch it before you generalize about cops not knowing their ****. I, for one, did more that "just" qualify and so did many of the guys that came through academy with me. I love guns and fired as many different kinds at the range as often as I had the opportunity to do so. You don't need to be a armorer or a ballistics expert to know your **** about weapons, in a practical sense. I don't know what kind of fat ass, donut munchin' ****tard cops you've been talkin' too, but I'd dare say they probably shouldn't be carrying badges or calling themselves cops if they don't know a little more than the average Joe about at least one or two other weapons other than their sidearm. Besides, one doesn't need to know about ALL weapons to be able to speak on the specific weapons with which one does have experience.

 

[MP_Duke]

Quick recoil test

I did a little test on the recoil for the 5.56 assault rifles currently available.
This was a resistance-free shooting (firing without holding the mouse back to stabilize) to show the amount of recoil. The M16A4 and M4A1 fit well with the general shot pattern.

 

[Logan6]

I did a little test on the recoil for the 5.56 assault rifles currently available.
This was a resistance-free shooting (firing without holding the mouse back to stabilize) to show the amount of recoil. The M16A4 and M4A1 fit well with the general shot pattern.

Well, Duke, my problem with the M4 is its recoil. It seems to have none, therefore giving you uber accuracy and firepower. It doesn't compare well to the M16A2 ingame which has a far greater recoil. Therefore, people with the M4 can snipe better than people with the longer barreled M16A2, and I have seen this in game, people sniping at distance on full auto with the M4. The guns need to be equalized in recoil (or made as real as possible ), either one way or the other, because right now one kicks like crazy while the other kicks not at all. Hell, the M4 is better than the SAW ( though I do agree for its weight, the SAW seems to have too great a recoil ). The major problem here is that we have two teams with different ideas about how the weapons should be, and the weapons are being mixed in game causing some bad imbalances.

 

[spm1138]

Play on servers without the community weapons pack then you whiney goon.

 

[MP_Duke]

Well, Logan, seeing as you completely don't understand the recoil test in my previous post, I'll explain the screenshots in detail. You can measure the recoil more or less by the length of the shot pattern. If you can't tell, the shot patterns in these screenshots are a result of firing a full magazine of 30 rounds on full-auto (burst for M16s) without resistance. A longer shot pattern means a higher recoil. If you don't understand this, then I suggest you practise more critical thinking exercises. You'll notice (hopefully) that the length of the shot pattern for the M4A1 in the first pic (that's the one on the leftmost side of the screen) approximately matches the length of the other full-auto weapons. In other words, the M4A1 kicks just as much as the FAMAS and the SIG551. The M16s have a resulting lower recoil effect, can you see this? If you can, then through deduction (perhaps not in your case) you can see that burst stabilizes recoil a little better than full-auto, but don't worry about this too much.